Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

2233boys

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Yakuza Rich;4232421 said:
The MAJOR fault with Paterno is that he knew about the 1998 and 2002 incident and Sandusky was never removed from the campus, the football program, or the football camp for kids.

As bad as not going to the police and not following up is...allowing Sandusky to continue to have full access to the campus, the football program and to continue coaching the camp is mind blowing.

Paterno could have gone to the police and the police may not have had enough evidence to legally arrest Sandusky.

But, in the world of Penn State football, he has ALL of the authority.

Sandusky's continued presence with the program after '98 and '02 is the biggest indictment against Paterno's actions.









YR
Clarification

Sandusky Retired in 99 after the first investigation. He was no longer part of the football program after that time. Sundusky's access to the university was through his foundation and camps he held. As part of his retirement package he was given an office, professor emeritus status, and allowed access to the University. University officials said he was no longer allowed on PSU main campus with children after the 2002 incident.
 

ZeroClub

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As far as Paterno is concerned, I don't totally trust the current information and assumptions about what he knew when.

For example, I don't know enough about the then graduate assistant and his character to be able to gauge the accuracy / reliability of his statements.

Sometimes what appears to be true later turns out not to be true.

For this reason I'm slow to condemn Paterno.

However if it turns out that Paterno really did know what was going on, but did next to nothing about it, that's despicable. Obviously.
 

Rogah

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ZeroClub;4232772 said:
As far as Paterno is concerned, I don't totally trust the current information and assumptions about what he knew when.

For example, I don't know enough about the then graduate assistant and his character to be able to gauge the accuracy / reliability of his statements.
"The Grand Jury finds the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible." - Direct Quote from the Findings of Fact, page 8, released earlier this week by the Grand Jury investigating these allegations.

That's good enough for me.
 

Manwiththeplan

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RoyTheHammer;4232398 said:
Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?

Yes. If the Police do nothing, ban him from the campus. Ban him from anything Penn State, he could've done that, but also chose to do nothing.

Should he go to jail for that, no, but he deserves what ever fall from grace that's going to occur following this.

If this were you're son, and he never went to the police, and allowed this man to continue preying on other little boys in the name of Penn State, would you still defend him?
 

Chocolate Lab

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Manwiththeplan

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RoyTheHammer;4232447 said:
I really couldn't care less what you believe. Joe Pa is the football coach. Sandusky wasn't on the staff. He is in no position to ban the man from the entire campus. He wasn't involved in any aspect of the Penn State football program.

Please, if Joe told the University President I don't want to see him on campus again, he would've gotten his way. Not to mention he could've threatened to go to the press.

Anyone from the Graduate Assistant who himself didn't go to the police himself, to the University President should be sick with themself.
 

2233boys

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Chocolate Lab;4232913 said:
Couldn't even get halfway through page 3. :puke:

Special place in the deepest corner of hell for you, Sandusky.

It got much worse.
 

Yakuza Rich

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WoodysGirl;4232867 said:
I just read the indictment in it's entirety.. I'm even more thoroughly disgusted. How no one stood up for these kids is simply mind-boggling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

I just read it all myself.

Tough to read.

One of the tough ones was the part of Jim Calhoun who said he had been through the Korean War, but that was not nearly as bad as what he saw Sandusky doing.

And that the janitors thought they would all lose their jobs if Calhoun reported it.

And I don't care what anybody says, there are *plenty* more victims out there. He started the 2nd Mile charity back in the late 70's. Tough to believe this just happened to start in '96 or so.

Lastly, after reading the report, I have no doubt that Paterno knew about all of this back in '98.

I think he knew, but thought it was 'acting inappropriately' and just told Sandusky that he wasn't going to be the HC over it and kinda left it at that. Then when McQuery reported the incident in 2002, he did the bare minimum to cover his own arse.

I think most of the loyal Penn State and Joe Pa. supporters know this. It actually reminds me a bit of Chris Benoit's situation and what Chris Jericho said 'I love Chris Benoit, but I hate what he did.'

It's tough to hold a person that you may have respected for the longest time and then learn of a situation in which they acted selfishly and poorly. Particularly whent he situation is like this one.

My guess in all of this...

Paterno coaches Saturday and steps down on Tuesday.

I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.









YR
 

Rogah

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Yakuza Rich;4232922 said:
I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.
My theory is they're going to let him coach this Saturday, which will be his final home game. They may let him finish out the regular season, then allow him to retire with some dignity intact.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Rogah;4232934 said:
My theory is they're going to let him coach this Saturday, which will be his final home game. They may let him finish out the regular season, then allow him to retire with some dignity intact.

It wouldn't shock me because they've handled this about as poorly as possible, ever step of the way...so continuing to handle it poorly is probably likely.

I just think that they wouldn't be accounting for nearly 20 years before some of this came to light. And for every person that steps forward, it just becomes more and more awful.






YR
 

Hoofbite

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Yakuza Rich;4232922 said:
I just read it all myself.

Tough to read.

One of the tough ones was the part of Jim Calhoun who said he had been through the Korean War, but that was not nearly as bad as what he saw Sandusky doing.

And that the janitors thought they would all lose their jobs if Calhoun reported it.

And I don't care what anybody says, there are *plenty* more victims out there. He started the 2nd Mile charity back in the late 70's. Tough to believe this just happened to start in '96 or so.

Lastly, after reading the report, I have no doubt that Paterno knew about all of this back in '98.

I think he knew, but thought it was 'acting inappropriately' and just told Sandusky that he wasn't going to be the HC over it and kinda left it at that. Then when McQuery reported the incident in 2002, he did the bare minimum to cover his own arse.

I think most of the loyal Penn State and Joe Pa. supporters know this. It actually reminds me a bit of Chris Benoit's situation and what Chris Jericho said 'I love Chris Benoit, but I hate what he did.'

It's tough to hold a person that you may have respected for the longest time and then learn of a situation in which they acted selfishly and poorly. Particularly whent he situation is like this one.

My guess in all of this...

Paterno coaches Saturday and steps down on Tuesday.

I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.

YR

The whole thing is disgusting.

Simple as that.

Paterno knew and did next to nothing, as did numerous other people.

My guess, this whole situation will cost the Penn State program a hefty amount and a whole lot of trouble.
 

Cajuncowboy

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Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.
 

2233boys

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Cajuncowboy;4232994 said:
Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.

Don't want Jay because he sucks. I would wager that Saturday is his last game too. I think an interm coach would be Tom Bradly or Galen Hall
 

RoyTheHammer

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Aggie87;4232546 said:
Joe should have gone to the police. Period. Regardless of what the police ultimately would have done or not done.

Agreed. Just like all the other PSU officials that knew about this.

The difference being, he had the least amount of information as to what exactly was going on than any of the rest of them. He was told about one incident, from a student, about some vague sexual activities.

Again, he went straight to university officials with the information, instead of law enforcement officials. That was his only mistake.

I just laugh at the people acting like he knew the whole time that Sandusky was a child raper and act like he was making arraingments for the guy or something.

The guy has done so much for the college that he didn't have to do. He lives and breathes to help the students there succeed. Anyone who thinks he clearly knew that Sandusky was the person he was is insane. There's absolutely no information to support that at all.

The biggest failure here was school officials, the charity officials, and the DA/law enforcement. Before we even think or contemplate removing Joe from his position, there should be a much bigger discussion about the President of the entire university, who knew about this for awhile and didn't say a word to police.
 

Yakuza Rich

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RoyTheHammer;4233016 said:
.
I just laugh at the people acting like he knew the whole time that Sandusky was a child raper and act like he was making arraingments for the guy or something.

Except, people aren't saying that. So you're laughing at figments of your imagination.

People do think he knew before 2002 and that he let it go.

Read the Grand Jury report. One of the victims says that Sandusky had a meeting with Paterno in 1998 and was visibly upset that he was told he wasn't going to be the head coach. And then Sandusky just happens to retire.


The guy has done so much for the college that he didn't have to do.

So?

It doesn't make up for the fact that he did next to nothing.

He didn't even confront Sandusky in 2002 or apparently after 2002.

He's supposed to be a guy that teaches kids things like integrity and courage. Yet, was completely afraid to do anything more than report it to his superior and stick his head in the sand when Sandusky was still around the school and in the 2nd Mile Program...which Paterno is a member of the board.

Part of integrity and courage is doing stuff that you don't want to do, but you know is the right thing to do.

Nobody is saying that it wouldn't be incredibly difficult to do this. But, when face with the toughest decision in his life to make, he failed miserably.


Anyone who thinks he clearly knew that Sandusky was the person he was is insane. There's absolutely no information to support that at all.

The Grand Jury report says differently. He knew in 2002. And it's pretty easy to connect the dots and he knew in 1998.

I think it's obvious unless you are some blind Paterno lemming.







YR
 

RoyTheHammer

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Manwiththeplan;4232908 said:
Yes. If the Police do nothing, ban him from the campus. Ban him from anything Penn State, he could've done that, but also chose to do nothing.

Should he go to jail for that, no, but he deserves what ever fall from grace that's going to occur following this.

If this were you're son, and he never went to the police, and allowed this man to continue preying on other little boys in the name of Penn State, would you still defend him?

If my son were the one raped in the incident Joe was told about, and the graduate assistant saw it, reported it to Joe, didn't go to the police himself, Joe went to tell university officials about it right away, but failed to go to police as well, the university officials said "we'll take care of it Joe", they had a meeting with the grad assistent, found out exactly what happened, told the president of the university exactly what happened, and no one ever went to the police with the knowledge they had..

..the last person i'd be upset with in this situation is Joe. He's the only one besides the grad assistant who even told the higher ups about it, even when he wasn't sure what exactly happened.

Yet most here are acting like Joe should face the most blame out of anyone, when his only real mistake was telling the wrong officials what was told to him.

As most realize though, everyone who knew and didn't tell police should be ashamed of themselves, but i really have to believe based on the grand jury information and all the other experiences and knowledge i have of Joe.. that he didn't know what exactly happened or how serious it really was.


To be honest.. after the way the police handled the first incident reported in 1998, i sincerely doubt they'd have done anything if Joe had gone to them and said "one of my grad students told me they saw a guy raping a little boy. Grad students word against Sandusky's.. that case would have been thrown out too and Sandusky would have gotten away with it again like the sick **** he is.
 

Hoofbite

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Cajuncowboy;4232994 said:
Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.

Sorry to be a little blunt but **** Joe Paterno's legacy.

Before I go on, I'm not laying sole blame on Paterno. There's plenty of people who are to blame but it's pretty obvious that he knew what was going on and did next to nothing to stop it. The fact that he got zero results when telling his superiors should have pissed him off enough to take it public the very next day. All who knew are to blame and I hope those who kept it quiet all spend a little time in the slammer with a dude serving life who hasn't had a cellmate in over a decade.

But back to Paterno. His legacy can be smeared in dog **** for all I care. He doesn't deserve a legacy. I don't care if it were determined that he was the least responsible person in the matter, the fact that he's responsible at all is enough for his legacy to be buried ASAP.

How about the 9 (and counting) lives that are ****ed up because Paterno sat idly by and let this monster run free. Joe Paterno is as much an official at Penn State as the AD or any person he "reports" to. He should have been a human being and put a stop to it. If it were his son who was being molested, I wonder if he simply reports it to the officials. I don't care if this pedophile works / worked for Penn State or not, Paterno had a responsibility as a human to notify the police of his actions.

I didn't have much to say on the subject but after getting a couple pages through the document, this whole situation is just deplorable. This guy took advantage of disadvantaged kids to satisfy his sick and twisted desires. Like YR said, this probably goes back years and it really wouldn't shock me if this guy set up those foundations to serve as a way of getting close enough to act on his perversions.

The fact that Paterno didn't take this to the police after notifying the school, regardless of the school's action, is just despicable. What was he expecting? Was he afraid of screwing up a potential forced resignation and severance package? He should have walked out of that meeting and straight into the police department but he didn't. He washed his hands of it.

I hope they just erase Joe Paterno from the history books. I'm serious. In the grand scheme of things, his legacy should be the last thing considered at this point. It's clear he knew of it, the only question now is "how long"?

I don't want to hear, "he told school officials. He notified the school". Bull**** and everyone knows it so just get all the **** the way out of here with that nonsense. Because he didn't take further action, more kids were molested and nothing came of it so he may as well have done nothing at all. Seriously, he basically did nothing. He certainly didn't take the action that any of us would expect him to take if it were our kids. I challenge someone to say they'd be just fine with a grown man turning his back on their kids like that by notifying a school official, seeing nothing come of it and just moving on down the road as though it never happened.

Someone please sit here and say that's a form of action that you'd accept of another human being to take if your kids were repeatedly raped. I dare anyone to take that stance.

In all honesty, Paterno should be thanking his lucky stars if all he loses is his legacy. He should be included in it. Like just notifying a supervisor just frees someone of all guilt. We'd expect more from the guy serving us fries at McDonalds, let alone one of the most well respected and tenured members of college football. Well, he was well respected. I hope he taken to the ringer over this.

Again, Paterno is not the only one to blame but how anyone can free him from guilt even to a minimal extent is absolutely mind boggling.
 

Blast From The Past

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trickblue;4229951 said:
Yeah... they just declared him dead a couple of months ago.... weird story...
And it gets weirder as his brother Roy committed suicide a year later I think, by jumping into the Miami River in Ohio.
 
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