Peter King MMQB on Dallas draft weekend - Talks about the Paxton ,Ogbah and J.Smith situations

[Idgit]

I didn't know you could get arrested for barking at a police dog?

Only if you're doing it maliciously, apparently. Which is hilarious.

 

[Bleu Star]

And yet, you are starting to see some of the pro-Elliott crowd talking about preserving him, giving him less carries to keep him fresh for 5 years. A few suggested he get 50-60% of the carries in the regular season.

So apparently our bellcow 4th pick can't be used like a bellcow because he can't get a ton of carries because the position of TB takes a beating and we don't want to run him into the ground.

I don't subscribe to that theory but I appreciate you sharing it... Assuming he masters all of the important blocking assignments and blitz pickups along with the standard playbook (which I have no doubt he will as a student of the game) he should be in that offensive huddle no less than 80% of the time. Period.

He's a stud and a real freak at the position. Guys like him don't come around very often and the beast will need to be fed well once we break that huddle.

 

[Sydla]

I don't subscribe to that theory but I appreciate you sharing it... Assuming he masters all of the important blocking assignments and blitz pickups along with the standard playbook (which I have no doubt he will as a student of the game) he sold be in that offensive huddle no less than 80% of the time. Period.

He's a stud and a real freak at the position. Guys like him don't come around very often and the beast will need to be fed well once we break that huddle.

I think he's very good as well. But I just find the whole "we need to keep him fresh because TBs get beat up" angle being played about hilariously bizarre because those same people poo poo'd the notion that a TB at 4 would take a beating and you probably wouldn't get the max out of him as you would like.

 

[percyhoward]

There were many people on this board who made arguments that the passing game is what fueled this team's attack in 2014. In fact, one prominent poster here makes that argument.

Some people think the passing game is all that matters, and that the running game doesn't affect your ability to pass the ball. If you watched Murray's YPC go down in the second half of the season while Romo's rating (and our scoring) went up, you might point to this as proof that it doesn't matter how well you run. That would be a mistake. Murray's drop in YPC was a result of the increased attention defenses were giving him. That means they were giving less attention to our passing game. It does matter how well you run, because if you can get defenders worrying about your running game, then passing becomes easier.

It does come up a lot, that there is no correlation between YPC and passer rating. And every time it does, somebody always points out that it does matter what kind of defense you're facing. And though this is highly nuanced for some, and just plain boring for most, the distinction between "how well you run doesn't matter" and "who the RB is doesn't matter" is real.

 

[Cowboy06]

A direct quote from the article.

I should never be surprised by the opinions on this board. Although there are some opinions that outright shock me. Hell, some of them are mine.

But the idea some brought to the table prior to the draft the Dallas running game wasn't the lynchpin to the success of 2014 was truly amazing. To the point for a brief moment I questioned what I knew. Yet there is no chance of getting away from the truth the running game benefited the passing game and the defense.

And after seeing all the players and coaches and GMs, and even what the team accepts as fact, I wonder where those folks are who put pencil to paper and did some statistical analysis to come away with an opinion contrary to not only what people in football were saying, but the most basic truth to what this game is about.

Moving the chains, staying ahead of third down, controlling the ball and clock, and protecting the defense, as most teams do.

Here it is, the way the team, along with most people associated with this game think about Elliott versus Ramsey. It's basic logic.

Bless you. Common sense on a Monday...wow! Just wow.

 

[Bleu Star]

For some people, the 2014 "running game" equals "Demarco Murray."

Again, what some people fail to acknowledge (they never will) is that Demarco was a huge part of our success in 2014. He wasn't the only reason. That offensive line opening holes and dominating along with Romo taking timely shots downfield.. It all fit together so masterfully. Then they rip the heart out of the offense by getting rid of a major cog without even an attempt to negotiate and try to convince him to stay... I will never forgive them for that because, like I said before, we were so close and then suddenly so far. It made zero sense. When you have the makings of something special, you do everything in your power to keep it whole.

Drafting Zeke was a major step in healing from abandoning our winning strategy in 2014.

Just say no to any mention of RBBC ever again. As a matter of fact, if someone on the staff mentions it, they should be fired on the spot.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I'm not about to try and guess, so what are you talking about?

I believe you posted earlier in this thread that you thought 2014 was anomaly. If I am mistaken, then ignore what I said.

 

[percyhoward]

Drafting Zeke was a major step in healing from abandoning our winning strategy in 2014.

If Romo is available and healthy, and you want a bell cow, you don't have to take a RB at #4.

Drafting Zeke was the first step into post-Romo world.

 

[jnday]

No scout or personnel guy has that question.

It was a question with the Dallas FO. There is a thread in the draft zone that reported questions about his CB ability after talking with a reliable source. I believe that it did lower say he Cowboys'' opinion of Ramsey .

 

[Bleu Star]

If Romo is available and healthy, and you want a bell cow, you don't have to take a RB at #4.

Drafting Zeke was the first step into post-Romo world.

Differences of opinion my good friend. We've had it since Demarco was jettisoned and I don't expect that to change. I hope you have the same expectations..lol

 

[jnday]

“I think with winning organizations there are processes that are in place and there is a way to do things, a philosophy, a belief that you have and everything is built around that,” Aikman said. “If you take Seattle for instance, if you say ‘hey, what is their philosophy,’ you kind of know what that is. They’re going to play great defense, they’re going to run the football and they draft players who fit the mold of what they’re looking for. I don’t know that the Cowboys . . . the Cowboys tend to change their beliefs each year on what it is they need or what they’re about. I find that to be somewhat unusual for a club that has been owned by the same owner for however long it’s been.”

- Troy Aikman

Jerry doesn’t have a football philosophy, but I like what he does. He tries to get all the information he can. He’s not a talent evaluator. Now, some days he thinks he is. Some days I think I’m an oilman, but I’m not. He’s an oilman.

- Bill Parcells

Troy makes a great point. The debate over team identity has went on for years, but Dallas changes the team's direction to copy the latest trends. There was a lot of resources and time wasted with trying to copy the Pats offense by using two TEs as an example. I would rather see Dallas as being a team that is known for ball control, smash-mouth offense and having a very fast, physical defense. Basically , the 90's Cowboy teams are the model that I like. It is a winning combination in any era of football.

 

[casmith07]

Peter King has a lengthily article about the Dallas draft in his MMQB this morning. It really goes in depth about Dallas decision not to trade back with Baltimore, Trying to move up for Lynch, Garrett wanting Elliott over Ramsey and Prescott vs Cook. One thing that interested me is if we moved back in the Baltimore trade and Elliott and Ramsey were taken, we would have taken Leonard Floyd at 6.
*********************
Garrett, on Monday, closed his office door and spent seven hours looking at every snap of Ramsey at Florida State in 2015, and every snap of Elliott at Ohio State in 2016. He liked Ramsey. He loved Elliott. Garrett told the Joneses he favored Elliott. So the group was solid as the clock ran down here for pick number four of the first round of the 2016 draft.


http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/01/nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-war-room-jerry-jones-peter-king

This might be Peter King's finest work.

 

[SMASHMOUTH9473]

Who was the small school QB that was compared to Cam Newton. I remember seeing a thread about him weeks before the draft.

 

[wileedog]

And comparing 3 TDs versus Murray's is the whole story.

I think yards after contact is a bigger story.

The one thing Murray did exceptionally well was fall forward. Even the "bad" runs tended to net 3 or 4 yards, and very rarely was he stopped for less.

McFadden IMO was the complete opposite last season. While he averaged 4.6 YPC, he certainly didn't get 4 yards every time he touched the ball. Because he went down so easily on contact IMO, his runs tended to more of the 1 yard, 2 yard, 1 yard, 16 yard burst, then 2 yards etc variety. The result to my mind was we were on the field a lot just like 2014, but every drive eventually we would get two of those short runs in a row, get into 3rd and long with the QB situation being what it was they were just not going to convert that very often. So many long drives ended in FGs and turnovers instead of TDs because McFadden couldn't do what Murray did in 2014 - keep the team in manageable 3rd down distances.

I'm still not a huge fan of the pick at 4, but if Zeke can get the "dirty yards" that Murray could and McFadden couldn't reliably, it will make a huge impact to the offense. And if Zeke can get some of that meat off the bone that Murray left out there as well, that's so much the better.

But I still personally would have just paid Lamar Miller in FA and went Ramsey with this pick I think.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I think yards after contact is a bigger story.

The one thing Murray did exceptionally well was fall forward. Even the "bad" runs tended to net 3 or 4 yards, and very rarely was he stopped for less.

McFadden IMO was the complete opposite last season. While he averaged 4.6 YPC, he certainly didn't get 4 yards every time he touched the ball. Because he went down so easily on contact IMO, his runs tended to more of the 1 yard, 2 yard, 1 yard, 16 yard burst, then 2 yards etc variety. The result to my mind was we were on the field a lot just like 2014, but every drive eventually we would get two of those short runs in a row, get into 3rd and long with the QB situation being what it was they were just not going to convert that very often. So many long drives ended in FGs and turnovers instead of TDs because McFadden couldn't do what Murray did in 2014 - keep the team in manageable 3rd down distances.

I'm still not a huge fan of the pick at 4, but if Zeke can get the "dirty yards" that Murray could and McFadden couldn't reliably, it will make a huge impact to the offense. And if Zeke can get some of that meat off the bone that Murray left out there as well, that's so much the better.

But I still personally would have just paid Lamar Miller in FA and went Ramsey with this pick I think.

I just don't see Ramsey being this all-world corner if he cannot take the ball away. Three seasons and he had three picks. And one of those seasons he had none. I hear the hue and cry about they didn't throw at him. But that was the same comment made about Deion, who they truly didn't throw on much, and he still got his.

Someone said Ramsey will end up being Quentin Jammer.

Quentin was never worth the 4th over-all.

However, a game changing running back is. But you have to get past the mythology of sports reporters and wannabe experts who are telling you running backs are a dime a dozen.

Crappy running backs are.

But if Elliott can exhibit the wigle, speed and blocking he did in college once in the pros, then 4 is not too high for me.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Beat you to it, it is in the draft forum!

 

[Beast_from_East]

I'm of the opinion that none of the quarterbacks drafted this year will amount to spit.

And I laugh at all the "experts" who suggest that Houston is a major contender now that they've drafted additional weapons for their new quarterback, Osweiler. This is the same QB that Denver had and said, "Meh, no thanks. Good luck somewhere else. We'll take a flyer on somebody we barely know."

Hopefully, the Broncos saved Jerry from himself with Lynch. When I heard about how relatively immature and stupid he is for a quarterback, that soured me on him. I'd rather gamble on Jaylen Smith's knee recovering than Lynch's brain doing things it's never done before.

Lynch scored a 6 on the wonderlic, that is Vince Young territory

I don't want a stupid QB

Dak has a Masters degree btw

 

[wileedog]

I just don't see Ramsey being this all-world corner if he cannot take the ball away. Three seasons and he had three picks. And one of those seasons he had none. I hear the hue and cry about they didn't throw at him. But that was the same comment made about Deion, who they truly didn't throw on much, and he still got his..

And I don't view Zeke, for all of the hype he gets, as the next coming of Adrian Peterson. In fact the word everyone uses to describe him is "complete", which is nice and all, but much like AP if he was such phenomenal running prospect no one would care that much about his blocking or receiving. In fact I liked Gurley coming out last year much more than Zeke this year, and Gurley went at 10.

Like I said, if you sign Miller in FA (for the same money we are paying Zeke) you get a significant offensive upgrade over McFadden/Morris IMO. And then even if Ramsey is not Deion, he is still probably a hack of a lot better than any of Carr/Mo/Church/Wilcox - who not only also excel at not making INTs, but have the bonus of a wide array of coverage and tackling issues among them that Ramsey does not.

 

[ringmaster]

Let's tap the breaks. But first, a quick disclaimer: I love the Zeke pick and I agree he has a better all-around game then Murray, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll have a better year than Murray in 2014. That was an anomaly.

As of now Zeke is a question mark until he plays in significant games on paper he's a huge draft acquisition on offense make no mistake about it.

 

[Bleu Star]

Lynch scored a 6 on the wonderlic, that is Vince Young territory

I don't want a stupid QB

Dak has a Masters degree btw

BOOM