News: PFT: Mike McCarthy: We feel it's important to support Kelvin Joseph based on information we have

[Haimerej]

Anyone who witnessed a murder and has grown up in a culture of not talking to the police and has friends who will kill yes that applies to everyone in that circumstance. So no 98% of America this doesn’t apply to because most of us don’t grow up with that ideology instilled since childhood.

Why do you assume KJ grew up that way?

Dude wasn’t privileged until he found out he could football. Ain’t no one from where he’s from privileged unless they play sports or are entertainers. Some of the worst poverty, crime, and school systems in Louisiana which is already a state who’s ranked towards the bottom in all those categories.

If growing up there is privileged we must be comparing it to a 3rd world country.

Would you call it privilege to be recruited by LSU, Alabama, Auburn, FL. State, or Florida? Would you call it privilege to get suspended for breaking team rules and then get picked up by another school? Would you call it privilege to get drafted and sign a $3 million signing bonus?

 

[CouchCoach]

If he’s never charged I don’t see why he would be suspended
It’s not a crime to have stupid friends it’s stupid to have stupid friends and if he doesn’t change he won’t ever amount to anything

Elliott wasn't charged.

That conduct detrimental is all about protecting that shield, Goodell's #1 job. If you think most people acquainted with this situation think Joseph should avoid all punishment, I do not agree.

He was not changed in exchange for identifying the shooters because they believe he did not participate. As to what Joseph knew they were going to do when they found that guy, we will never know.

Any player witnesses a murder and fails to report it and actually knows the perps is going to catch the league's attention. He could get anywhere from 6 games to the season to indefinitely. There isn't a template for this that I can recall except Lewis and the NFLPA will weigh in but they've got to be image conscious as well. And Lewis was not a Cowboy.

 

[Haimerej]

Because unlike you, I have nuance man. You can be guilty of something while still being a logical explanation as to why you did so. Doesn’t mean it’s excusing anything it just illuminates as to why.

For example, if someone steals a loaf of bread they are wrong. But if they did it because they haven’t eaten then that’s the explanation. Does it mean you get the loaf of bread for free and all is right? No you’re still guilty of stealing. But at least we have a logical explanation as opposed to the guilty party stealing the loaf for the thrill or for fun which would not be a logical explanation for the act.

Not comparing stealing bread to murder, just trying to analogize that you can understand why someone does something without denying the wrongdoing.

Also as a bigger point, if you want to reduce crime the these are things you must dive into. Solely doling out punishment doesn’t change cycles of incarceration and crime in certain communities. We have to understand why people act and what pushes them to commit the crimes. Once you know why you can attack the reasons for the crime not solely the person who committed it.

How can you make a change if the only question you ask is, “guilty or innocent”? Find out why, find out what led to this thought process, what factors pushed these people to act in such a way. You get answers to that and attack those issues then you can actually lower crime.

What you don't get is that I understand completely what you're saying. I also know you have zero basis for this other than he grew up in Baton Rouge. You don't know his circumstances. He went to a magnet school and was winning All State honors as a Junior and Senior.

You're essentially making a bigoted assumption based on nothing but where he was born.

 

[CouchCoach]

He did. I just like to point out that it’s not easy to implicate guys in a murder as they are capable of retaliation against him and his family.

Something most posters don’t consider when demanding he come forward immediately. Might be an easy choice morally but is not an easy choice to make in actuality.

But he comes forward once identified with his lawyer proclaiming he was not the shooter. He named them to escape being charged himself. He's afraid to do anything until he is identified and then gives up everything? Don't think so.

Just my opinion based on what I know but I think he's in a little deeper than that.

 

[817Gill]

Why do you assume KJ grew up that way?



Would you call it privilege to be recruited by LSU, Alabama, Auburn, FL. State, or Florida? Would you call it privilege to get suspended for breaking team rules and then get picked up by another school? Would you call it privilege to get drafted and sign a $3 million signing bonus?

It’s not an assumption dude Baton Rouge has the 8th highest murder rate in the country. South Baton Rouge is arguably the worse part. So a guy grew up in the worse part of the 8th highest murder capital and you don’t put 2 and 2 together? Do you know who NBA Youngboy is? They are childhood friends and that should give you more insight. Look up NBA Youngboy lol tell me if he’s from a stable community or not.

Ah privileged because the man can play football and was recruited in HS. Guess that excuses his whole childhood huh? His “privilege” wasn’t until his later teens. There’s a whole life before that man.

 

[OGCowboy]

It’s very simple as my ol daddy said....
When you lay with dogs....you end up with fleas.
Period

 

[817Gill]

But he comes forward once identified with his lawyer proclaiming he was not the shooter. He named them to escape being charged himself. He's afraid to do anything until he is identified and then gives up everything? Don't think so.

Just my opinion based on what I know but I think he's in a little deeper than that.

Well yeah he’s gonna come forward when his hand is forced what else is he gonna do? Be silent and throw his career away?

There are levels to it. The police and a life sentence is going to be more of a push to tell than his fear would be to not tell. Don’t see the difficulty in understanding the thought process.

Start off silent for aforementioned reasons but once the law and jail time get involved there are more reasons to tell than to be silent. The progression of severity isn’t police then the friends, it’s friends then the police. So yeah makes complete sense as to why he would talk once facing conviction rather than event no one knew.

Again not right but those are the steps he likely took.

 

[Haimerej]

It’s not an assumption dude Baton Rouge has the 8th highest murder rate in the country. South Baton Rouge is arguably the worse part. So a guy grew up in the worse part of the 8th highest murder capital and you don’t put 2 and 2 together? Do you know who NBA Youngboy is? They are childhood friends and that should give you more insight. Look up NBA Youngboy lol tell me if he’s from a stable community or not.

Ah privileged because the man can play football and was recruited in HS. Guess that excuses his whole childhood huh? His “privilege” wasn’t until his later teens. There’s a whole life before that man.

Tell me about his childhood. What do you know?

Again- your assumption is Baton Rouge has bad crime statistics so he must have had a bad childhood.

 

[817Gill]

Tell me about his childhood. What do you know?

Again- your assumption is Baton Rouge has bad crime statistics so he must have had a bad childhood.

I’ve seen his childhood home on a mini doc, I’ve seen his music videos and where he stays and hangs, I know NBA freakin Youngboy who is as street as they come and they are childhood friends. Not sure how much more evidence you need man. You think he just woke up every morning on the good side of town and just decided to drive over to S. BR for the heck of it?

I don’t think this is even a debatable topic dude if this is what you want to hang your opinion on then it’s pretty weak. Ryan Clark who knew him when he was getting recruited to LSU said he had a rough upbringing where he was from.

Like move on from this sticking point man he grew up in the trenches.

Right here man, right from the dude himself. Keep acting like you don’t know what BR is. 34 freakin seconds in he says it. Made me waste so much time when it’s completely obvious he grew up in the trenches.



In case you can’t hear he said in response to growing up in BR:

“It was crazy. Violence, drugs, killing…”

I honestly liked your debating as it was done with some conscientiousness. But to act like you don’t know he grew up in a violent hood is weird. It’s so painfully obvious when you actually do the slightest bit of research.

Hopefully you’re done with that angle as it was going nowhere.

End of the day my opinion is he was wrong, but when considering his upbringing and the danger of the circumstances I can see how his mind made those decisions. Simple. Doesn’t absolve him of what he did, just illuminates the thought process. Hopefully we done here.

 

[Haimerej]

I’ve seen his childhood home on a mini doc, I’ve seen his music videos and where he stays and hangs, I know NBA freakin Youngboy who is as street as they come and they are childhood friends. Not sure how much more evidence you need man. You think he just woke up every morning on the good side of town and just decided to drive over to S. BR for the heck of it?

I don’t think this is even a debatable topic dude if this is what you want to hang your opinion on then it’s pretty weak. Ryan Clark who knew him when he was getting recruited to LSU said he had a rough upbringing where he was from.

Like move on from this sticking point man he grew up in the trenches.

Right here man, right from the dude himself. Keep acting like you don’t know what BR is. 34 freakin seconds in he says it. Made me waste so much time when it’s completely obvious he grew up in the trenches.



In case you can’t hear he said in response to growing up in BR:

“It was crazy. Violence, drugs, killing…”

I honestly liked your debating as it was done with some conscientiousness. But to act like you don’t know he grew up in a violent hood is weird. It’s so painfully obvious when you actually do the slightest bit of research.

Hopefully you’re done with that angle as it was going nowhere.

End of the day my opinion is he was wrong, but when considering his upbringing and the danger of the circumstances I can see how his mind made those decisions. Simple. Doesn’t absolve him of what he did, just illuminates the thought process. Hopefully we done here.

At least there's something tangible now you guys can point out. Appreciate the effort.

Still don't think it matters and still believe it's a tepid excuse for what he did. But we can agree to disagree. Thanks for keeping it civil.

 

[817Gill]

At least there's something tangible now you guys can point out. Appreciate the effort.

Still don't think it matters and still don't believe it's a tepid excuse for what he did. But we can agree to disagree. Thanks for keeping it civil.

Ey respect man. I deleted my second post which was bit more condescending.

I have a gov job and try to advocate for all people to understand how childhoods and upbringings play into someone’s decision making. Sorry if I got worked up but it’s a passion of mine to have people understand eachother. Not to excuse actions but to simply understand.

Appreciate the interaction!

 

[Haimerej]

Lmao bigoted. Lmaooooooo. Watch the clip I just posted clown. Tryna make me seem like I don’t know what I’m talking about listen to him say it himself.

Y’all are nuts this annoyed me. Actin like I’m some old dude who just makes assumptions. This was your worse argument yet. Just terrible to accuse me of that when the facts are right there. I’ll post it again just to make sure you understand how obtuse you are. 34 seconds in you’ll see who has zero basis lol.

Let me ask-

Do you think he has a good reason for not coming forward until he was identified?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

At least there's something tangible now you guys can point out. Appreciate the effort.

Still don't think it matters and still believe it's a tepid excuse for what he did. But we can agree to disagree. Thanks for keeping it civil.

One thing I notice about your whole take is that you think you are in a position of what is excused for us and what is not.

 

[817Gill]

Let me ask-

Do you think he has a good reason for not coming forward until he was identified?

I don’t think there are necessarily good reasons to not come forward. I just think there are real reasons that would cause a young man to think twice and have to do some figuring out before stepping forward.

That’s all I’m trying to convey. Many people acted like the decision was easy but with all the stuff I mentioned it’s not quite as simple as many make it sound.

 

[Haimerej]

Ey respect man. I deleted my second post which was bit more condescending.

I have a gov job and try to advocate for all people to understand how childhoods and upbringings play into someone’s decision making. Sorry if I got worked up but it’s a passion of mine to have people understand eachother. Not to excuse actions but to simply understand.

Appreciate the interaction!

Do you at least acknowledge how, "I understand," can be seen as an excuse? I mean, that Chris Rock bit is basically built off that trope.

 

[Haimerej]

I don’t think there are necessarily good reasons to not come forward. I just think there are real reasons that would cause a young man to think twice and have to do some figuring out before stepping forward.

That’s all I’m trying to convey. Many people acted like the decision was easy but with all the stuff I mentioned it’s not quite as simple as many make it sound.

I acknowledge that it's not easy. But doing the right thing can be difficult. It's interesting to me that those who point to, "reasons," don't ever seem to acknowledge the bad reasons, i.e. he thought they got away with it, as possible.

 

[817Gill]

Do you at least acknowledge how, "I understand," can be seen as an excuse? I mean, that Chris Rock bit is basically built off that trope.

For sure I do. That’s why I put in the disclaimer that I feel the action was still wrong. I tried to insert that as much as possible to ward away that idea that I’m excusing him.

I just like to understand how ones decisions are made before I attack them. I do totally get that idea though for sure.

 

[817Gill]

I acknowledge that it's not easy. But doing the right thing can be difficult. It's interesting to me that those who point to, "reasons," don't ever seem to acknowledge the bad reasons, i.e. he thought they got away with it, as possible.

Which is totally a reasonable take my man. I’m an optimist so I generally try to give the benefit of the doubt. But I’m not a blind optimist so I do not bank on the positive, nor do I except it. It’s just usually what I contribute to the conversation while totally knowing that the flip side could also be true.

I try not to get surprised either way or get hung up on what I hope is the reason. I just like to bring all the circumstances to the table and go from there. A lot of posters initially rubbed me the wrong way due to them jumping the gun and accusing the worse without doing any background.

 

[Haimerej]

One thing I notice about your whole take is that you think you are in a position of what is excused for us and what is not.

Most people are accustomed to the saying, "Everything before the word, 'but,' is [meaningless]." "He was wrong, but he grew up wrong," falls into that category for me.

 

[Haimerej]

Here's another thought-

Is it possible that KJ embraced the lifestyle we're blaming for his poor decision making? If so, does he have any responsibility for buying into it? Does he have any agency or is he merely a victim of circumstance?