Pick One Guy from the front office or coaching to have in Dallas

[Hostile]

See, I don't know Garrett personally at all (obviously), but IMO he's much more the huckster than the charismatic leader. Huckster is a little strong, because that implies he's deliberately deceitful. But still, take away the Princeton resume and polished interview style, and what do you have? Someone whose side of the ball went backwards when the experienced everyman hand-holder Sparano left town.

Besides, let's face it, football isn't rocket science anyway. Landry is my all-time favorite coach by far, but there have been far more successful salty tough guy types who have been successful than clinical X and O genius types like Landry and Walsh.

Like I say, maybe Garrett has some leadership quality that I'm missing. But when I see him interviewed or even see him on the weekly coaches show, all I see are cliches and that "I'm smarter than you" smile.

To me Switzer, Kotite and Handley were hucksters.

I disagree with you on the intangible of intelligence. Strongly. Belichick wins because he is a brilliant football mind. Even Roger Staubach says as much. He played for Bill's Dad and says even as a youth you could see he got the game.

BTW, I did not have Garrett as the charismatic leader either.

 

[bbgun]

See, I don't know Garrett personally at all (obviously), but IMO he's much more the huckster than the charismatic leader. Huckster is a little strong, because that implies he's deliberately deceitful. But still, take away the Princeton resume and polished interview style, and what do you have? Someone whose side of the ball went backwards when the experienced everyman hand-holder Sparano left town.

Besides, let's face it, football isn't rocket science anyway. Landry is my all-time favorite coach by far, but there have been far more successful salty tough guy types who have been successful than clinical X and O genius types like Landry and Walsh.

Like I say, maybe Garrett has some leadership quality that I'm missing. But when I see him interviewed or even see him on the weekly coaches show, all I see are cliches and that "I'm smarter than you" smile.

Guys like Jim Johnson and Rex Ryan must be super geniuses who went to Harvard or something because they had no trouble shutting down Princeton Boy. And I'm pretty sure that of the 12 offensive coordinators who guided their teams to the playoffs this year, not one has Ivy League credentials. Garrett ain't the only guy with so-called "brains."

 

[Hostile]

Guys like Jim Johnson and Rex Ryan must be super geniuses who went to Harvard or something because they had no trouble shutting down Princeton Boy. And I'm pretty sure that of the 12 offensive coordinators who guided their teams to the playoffs this year, not one has Ivy League credentials. Garrett ain't the only guy with so-called "brains."

I never said he was. Didn't even intimate it. Nice reach.

 

[Alexander]

I still don't see the connection between Landry and Garrett. At all.

Why is Jason going to be the next Landry again? Because he knew his team's playbook inside and out? Because he was like a coach on the field the starter? Because some teams have interviewed him for HC? That's it? That sounds like plenty of other young coaches over the years.

And it isn't that Garrett "sucks" for some of us. It's that all the accolades he's gotten are totally undeserving at this point. If he's truly this brilliant coaching mind, let it show up on the field for a while before we annoint him. Tom Landry was a GREAT defensive coordinator for a team that went to championship games more than once. Two years in a row now, Garrett can't even put up points on good defenses late in the year, and his QB has gone backwards. Looks like a big difference to me.

I get *wanting* Jason to have this storybook career where he takes over his old team and coaches it to Championships, but I need a lot more evidence before I believe it could be a reality.

Fantastic post.

 

[bbgun]

I never said he was. Didn't even intimate it. Nice reach.

Huh? Wasn't even replying to you.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Hos, of course intelligence is important and desirable. Where did I say it wasn't?

And yes, Belichick is very smart. But he seems to balance the whiz-bang stuff with being extremely fundamentally sound and stressing playing basic, solid football. I don't see that at all on our offense.

 

[Hostile]

Huh? Wasn't even replying to you.

I'm the one who brought up Garrett's intelligence as why I want to keep him. Unless I missed something.

 

[Hostile]

Hos, of course intelligence is important and desirable. Where did I say it wasn't?

And yes, Belichick is very smart. But he seems to balance the whiz-bang stuff with being extremely fundamentally sound stressing playing basic, solid football. I don't see that at all on our offense.

I do.

 

[bbgun]

I'm the one who brought up Garrett's intelligence as why I want to keep him. Unless I missed something.

So did Choc ("Princeton resume"), and that's what I was agreeing with.

 

[Hostile]

So did Choc ("Princeton resume"), and that's what I was agreeing with.

Now you lost me.

I realize that isn't a hard task though.

 

[Alexander]

Guys like Jim Johnson and Rex Ryan must be super geniuses who went to Harvard or something because they had no trouble shutting down Princeton Boy. And I'm pretty sure that of the 12 offensive coordinators who guided their teams to the playoffs this year, not one has Ivy League credentials. Garrett ain't the only guy with so-called "brains."

Garrett is insanely smart. So smart it might even border on arrogance and/or stubbornness. He is not the only coach who has that handicap. He is just a different type of coach at this stage in his career. I just don't see the flexibility yet and that's simple inexperience.

I have no doubt he will grow out of the tendency he has now where he demands execution and completely refrains from trickery. You see even old dogs like Jim Johnson modifying and adjusting their schemes and even dig back into the past or college ranks just to get an edge, if even for a few games. Yes, football is football. But unless you've got a dynasty on your hands, it is sometimes difficult to replicate the past, which I think Garrett is doing in a manner of speaking.

The NFL is a smarter game today than it ever has been, even back into the 1990s. Just the technological advances make it so. That's why teams are so quick to latch on the flavor of the year every offseason. Teams adjust and the cycle keeps going.

 

[bbgun]

Now you lost me.

I realize that isn't a hard task though.

Look at Choc's post that I quoted. He cites Garrett's "Princeton resume" and implies that he's more resume than substance at this point. That's what I was agreeing with. Doesn't mean he has to be booted out of town, but hold off on the coronation.

 

[Hostile]

Garrett is insanely smart. So smart it might even border on arrogance and/or stubbornness. He is not the only coach who has that handicap. He is just a different type of coach at this stage in his career. I just don't see the flexibility yet and that's simple inexperience.

I have no doubt he will grow out of the tendency he has now where he demands execution and completely refrains from trickery. You see even old dogs like Jim Johnson modifying and adjusting their schemes and even dig back into the past or college ranks just to get an edge, if even for a few games. Yes, football is football. But unless you've got a dynasty on your hands, it is sometimes difficult to replicate the past, which I think Garrett is doing in a manner of speaking.

The NFL is a smarter game today than it ever has been, even back into the 1990s. Just the technological advances make it so. That's why teams are so quick to latch on the flavor of the year every offseason. Teams adjust and the cycle keeps going.

I openly admit, I like arrogance in a coach.

As long as the coach can back it up. "We've got a winner in town." --Buddy Ryan

I liked his hutzpa, but not his results.

 

[Hostile]

Look at Choc's post that I quoted. He cites Garrett's "Princeton resume" and implies that he's more resume than substance at this point. That's what I was agreeing with. Doesn't mean he has to be booted out of town, but hold off on the coronation.

And since Choc and I were on opposite ends of that topic is why I said I wasn't intimating Garrett is the only guy with "NFL brains."

I'm not saying that. It has nothing to do with Princeton as far as I am concerned. He could have gone to Arizona State. Football smarts are a commodity and it is what I admire about Garrett and always have.

You can say my fascination with NFL history is a blindness if you wish. I won't agree. When guys are smart and end up coaching teammates I try to take notice. It is why I keep hoping Marco Rivera will get into coaching. It may never happen.

Garrett did happen and it excited me. I've wanted the "storybook" stuff that others are skeptical about since the Super Bowl days. If others can't see it, that is their business. I have my reasons and I have been defending those reasons.

You came in at the tail end of that and it is why I misunderstood.

 

[bbgun]

Garrett is insanely smart. So smart it might even border on arrogance and/or stubbornness. He is not the only coach who has that handicap. He is just a different type of coach at this stage in his career. I just don't see the flexibility yet and that's simple inexperience.

I have no doubt he will grow out of the tendency he has now where he demands execution and completely refrains from trickery. You see even old dogs like Jim Johnson modifying and adjusting their schemes and even dig back into the past or college ranks just to get an edge, if even for a few games. Yes, football is football. But unless you've got a dynasty on your hands, it is sometimes difficult to replicate the past, which I think Garrett is doing in a manner of speaking.

The NFL is a smarter game today than it ever has been, even back into the 1990s. Just the technological advances make it so. That's why teams are so quick to latch on the flavor of the year every offseason. Teams adjust and the cycle keeps going.

The difference is that no one wonders or cares where Jim Johnson went to school. He's his own man with his own undeniable accomplishments. With Garrett, we're constantly reminded of his upper-crust tutelage, as if that should be enough. How is it that Garrett is a "genius" when that moniker was never applied to Don Coryell or Norv Turner? Teams blitzed the hell out of us in December and we never adjusted. Did Garrett not see this trend developing or was he powerless to stop it?

 

[bbgun]

And since Choc and I were on opposite ends of that topic is why I said I wasn't intimating Garrett is the only guy with "NFL brains."

I'm not saying that. It has nothing to do with Princeton as far as I am concerned. He could have gone to Arizona State. Football smarts are a commodity and it is what I admire about Garrett and always have.

You can say my fascination with NFL history is a blindness if you wish. I won't agree. When guys are smart and end up coaching teammates I try to take notice. It is why I keep hoping Marco Rivera will get into coaching. It may never happen.

Garrett did happen and it excited me. I've wanted the "storybook" stuff that others are skeptical about since the Super Bowl days. If others can't see it, that is their business. I have my reasons and I have been defending those reasons.

You came in at the tail end of that and it is why I misunderstood.

I'm not shy about replying to your posts. In this instance, it was easier to agree with what he wrote than disagree with you. But I still got hammered anyway ...

 

[Hostile]

I'm not shy about replying to your posts. In this instance, it was easier to agree with what he wrote than disagree with you. But I still got hammered anyway ...

That was hammered?

Jeez.

 

[ZeroClub]

This is a great thread full of high quality posts. A very nice read.

 

[peplaw06]

The difference is that no one wonders or cares where Jim Johnson went to school. He's his own man with his own undeniable accomplishments. With Garrett, we're constantly reminded of his upper-crust tutelage, as if that should be enough. How is it that Garrett is a "genius" when that moniker was never applied to Don Coryell or Norv Turner? Teams blitzed the hell out of us in December and we never adjusted. Did Garrett not see this trend developing or was he powerless to stop it?

Isn't it obvious as to why that is?? Garrett has just finished year two as an OC. Johnson has been doing it for ages.

 

[28 Joker]

Al Saunders