Polamalu vs. Woodson

[dallasdave]

You just proved one of the points I made that a lot of the tearing down that's being done to Polamalu is because he was a Steeler. Some of you need to put your biases aside and judge a player off their ability rather than allowing the team they played for to influence your opinion of them.

I'm not putting my biases aside, I love the Cowboys and hate the steelers and have hated them since the 70's, ain't going to change.

 

[dallasdave]

I have to stand by you. And with a pic of Chuck Howley, you're anything but a Steelers troll. In a 4-3 scheme, Howley and Thomas Henderson are my favorite DC OLBs. Howley should be in Canton.

Hey I watched Howley and Thomas and they are 2 of my favorite LB's of all time. Those guys were playmakers !! Howley was playing when I started watching the Cowboys. Fun fact- Howley is the only player on a losing team to be named MVP in the Super Bowl.

 

[dallasdave]

If a player freelances so much to the point where there are mumblings that your defense is, "10 guys playing defense according to the plan and then Polamalu," then you're not a Hall of Fame player, in my opinion.

Polamalu made some amazing plays and had unreal ability to recognize what was about to happen, but it wasn't like he was doing that every play. His teammates had to cover for him playing outside the scheme and being out of position a majority of the time. People tend to remember his big plays and ignore his lack of consistency the rest of the time.

I'll take Woody in his prime just because he helped the guys around him be better and didn't make himself a liability a majority of the time in favor of a few big plays.

Give me the guy who was consistent and in position on every down over a few big plays once in a while. Substance over flash.

Well said indeed, stay thirsty my friend.

 

[dallasdave]

Frankly, I don't think he understands the concept of the comma and the period. Let's tackle those first, then move on to schemes.



I've never heard of Jimmy Polamalu.

I never heard of Jimmy Polamalu either

 

[dallasdave]

Jimmy had plenty of instinctive players. They were just disciplined and played within his scheme.

Jimmy didn't have a player like Polamalu because Jimmy didn't want a player like Polamalu.

Thank you, Jimmy Johnson forgot more about football, than Polamalu ever knew about football.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

There have been attempts at ranking players of different eras using a stat called AV or "approximate value". Here's a list of all the safeties ranked by AV.

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

It's not perfect by any stretch and is a pretty simplistic stat when actually look at what goes into it. And in this particular case, there are guys who may have played safety EXTREMELY briefly in their careers listed, but it's interesting nonetheless.

In the context of this particular discussion, Polamalu is 19th and Darren Woodson is 39th.

 

[xwalker]

It should tell you something that so many of us Dallas fans who hold Woody in high regard still choose Polamau over him.

Not really. Most fans go by sports center highlights. Probably less than 10% really base their opinions on hard core study of game footage.

 

[tyke1doe]

Sorry, but Polamalu was better than Woodson.

 

[tyke1doe]

Jimmy had plenty of instinctive players. They were just disciplined and played within his scheme.

Jimmy didn't have a player like Polamalu because Jimmy didn't want a player like Polamalu.

Jimmy loved playmakers, especially those with speed. And Polamalu was a playmaker with speed.

I'm sure Jimmy would have wanted him.

 

[Chuck 54]

I have to stand by you. And with a pic of Chuck Howley, you're anything but a Steelers troll. In a 4-3 scheme, Howley and Thomas Henderson are my favorite DC OLBs. Howley should be in Canton.

Lol....thanks. Howley was my favorite Cowboy LB from that era, and the more I read about him, the more I respected him. Still the only SB MVP ever from the losing team....ha

 

[dallasdave]

See, talk about Howley, Randy White, Hollywood, ect, great COWBOYS who deserve our respect,. but stop bragging on that pittsburg trash.

 

[casmith07]

Jimmy loved playmakers, especially those with speed. And Polamalu was a playmaker with speed.

I'm sure Jimmy would have wanted him.

No question. He just wasn't better than Darren Woodson.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The question is, was that really Lebeau's scheme? Or was Polamalu just so much of a freelancer that Lebeau was forced to adapt.

The presence of Polamalu left a LOT for the other safety to compensate for. I don't think any defensive coordinator would find that ideal.

I'd say that the scheme and the role that Polamalu played in it was by design, if that is the question you are asking. Steelers had years to change it if that is what they wanted to do. I agree that when you play this scheme, it puts pressure on other players to do more. However, if you have the right players, it also allows for you to create turnovers and apply pressure. It's a trade off. Lebeau has always used DBs to do things like this. He was DB in Detroit for years before becoming a Coach and a very good one. He understands the value of Turn Overs and believes that DBs are not just coverage guys. I think it was Lebeau seeing the right player for the right scheme.

 

[casmith07]

If a player freelances so much to the point where there are mumblings that your defense is, "10 guys playing defense according to the plan and then Polamalu," then you're not a Hall of Fame player, in my opinion.

Polamalu made some amazing plays and had unreal ability to recognize what was about to happen, but it wasn't like he was doing that every play. His teammates had to cover for him playing outside the scheme and being out of position a majority of the time. People tend to remember his big plays and ignore his lack of consistency the rest of the time.

I'll take Woody in his prime just because he helped the guys around him be better and didn't make himself a liability a majority of the time in favor of a few big plays.

Give me the guy who was consistent and in position on every down over a few big plays once in a while. Substance over flash.

It's like Troy Aikman vs Brett Farve.

Woodson didn't get beat in coverage including playing against slot WRs and was like a LB against the run but he didn't make tons of splash plays.

Polamalu got beat more but make a lot of splash plays that get fans excited (INTs and Forced Fumbles).

Who was better, Aikman or Farve? Who would you really want to be your QB?

#bam.

 

[Future]

This entire thread just reinforces how overrated Polamalu is, has always been, and will always be. He's a flash player. For every big play he made, there were two where he took himself out of position. Polamalu with most any other coordinator in the league would have been a good player, sure, but he didn't have the speed or coverage ability needed to be much more than an in the box safety.

Darren Woodson's skills were transcendent. He could have been the same player in every scheme. People want to gloss over the fact that could cover slot receivers, which Polamalu could never even dream of doing.

It's Woodson and it's not even close.

 

[casmith07]

The question is, was that really Lebeau's scheme? Or was Polamalu just so much of a freelancer that Lebeau was forced to adapt.

The presence of Polamalu left a LOT for the other safety to compensate for. I don't think any defensive coordinator would find that ideal.

More of a testament to the skill of Ryan Clark, huh?

 

[casmith07]

This entire thread just reinforces how overrated Polamalu is, has always been, and will always be. He's a flash player. For every big play he made, there were two where he took himself out of position. Polamalu with most any other coordinator in the league would have been a good player, sure, but he didn't have the speed or coverage ability needed to be much more than an in the box safety.

Darren Woodson's skills were transcendent. He could have been the same player in every scheme. People want to gloss over the fact that could cover slot receivers, which Polamalu could never even dream of doing.

It's Woodson and it's not even close.

This is what I've been saying. 6'1", 220lbs, and could cover slot WRs. Woodson would erase guys like Wes Welker from the gameplan. And then still come up in the box and erase any RB's dreams of bouncing anything outside of the tackles. For 60 minutes. Every week.

 

[casmith07]

Oh, and Darren Woodson also played special teams basically his entire career in Dallas. Coaches couldn't get him to play "just defense."

Transcendent talent, as Future said. It's not close. Polamalu is just a media and fan favorite for a handful of splash plays on a media darling franchise.

 

[Risen Star]

Woodson was one of the few safeties who could man up at the line of scrimmage with any wideout and do a good job.

I don't know. I think I'd go with him over TP.

 

[WoodysGirl]

<<--------- Polamalu has better hair..