News: Pollard can't be "the guy."

[SteveTheCowboy]

And you’re talking out your arse.

Broaddus and Eatman both mentioned Kellen Moore positively noting in the post game presser two specific pass blocks Pollard was involved in during the Bears game.

Well you don;t have to be a *@&# about it.

I will rewatch the game more carefully.

Just want to fight...eh? Can't have a speck of civility ever?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Ohhh…****** that’s on me, I replied to the wrong thread. I was referencing one someone said something like pollard can’t handle more than 20 carries and my intent was to say “fine, let’s say he can only handle 10 touches, why does any back need more touches than that and why does zeke deserve those other touches.

my apologies for the confusion

I thought so....it's all good mate!

 

[cnuball21]

These Zeke don’t like actual numbers. They just like to talk about their feelings and notions of “bell cows…tough yards…”

“Pollard can’t carry the load” - no one is asking him to…

“Zeke wears defenses down which is why TP gets big plays” - proven wrong by Bears game.

“Zeke gets tough yards” - TP has a much higher yards after contact.

I just don’t get it…it’s ok to continue to like a player and admit they aren’t that aren’t that dude anymore.

 

[DallasDomination]

Why?
It is working fine the way it is.
Don't fix what is not broken.

If we’re going to win anything meaningful both backs are going to have to perform. I’m all for giving the hot hand the bulk of the touches. But it’s clear Pollard should get more opportunities on average by now, he’s the better player. Politics and favoritism shouldn’t matter here and it’ll only make our team worse. Give the better player more touches, it’s the only reasonable answer.

 

[RonnieT24]

If we’re going to win anything meaningful both backs are going to have to perform. I’m all for giving the hot hand the bulk of the touches. But it’s clear Pollard should get more opportunities on average by now, he’s the better player. Politics and favoritism shouldn’t matter here and it’ll only make our team worse. Give the better player more touches, it’s the only reasonable answer.

Pollard has always been better suited for this offense. At least in the running game. The fact that Moore heavily favors shotgun run and delay handoffs far and away fits Pollard's skillset and running style better. I have been saying that for over three years. The question to me is whether that style of offense is better for the Cowboys. I am of the mind that the power running game is better for this team. The downhill power running game leads to far less games of averaging < 2 ypc and far fewer negative runs. Maybe you get a few more big plays.. but does it win you more games? Barry Sanders played in 6 playoff games in his career. Emmitt Smith played in 19.. Eric Dickerson played in 7 playoff games.. Marcus Allen played in 16. Adrian Peterson played in 5 playoff games.. LeGarrette Blount played in 11. Over the course of history the more explosive big play threat backs have spent far more time watching the playoffs on TV than the steady production tough running guys. That's where my affinity for the tough runners comes from. That style has been shown to be far superior for winning games especially in the playoffs. Sure one can counter that those guys went to better teams.. but Emmitt was drafted by a team that went 1-15. Sooooo... maybe the players help MAKE their teams better..

The bottom line is winning games.. If we go deep in the playoffs using the current style I will have no problem going into next season with Pollard as the #1 back. I posted at the end of 2018 that if the Cowboys weren't going to commit to the power running game they should trade Zeke.. They're wasting him in this current system.. and have been for most of the last 3 seasons.

 

[lukin2006]

He does not have to be the guy. He just needs 10-12 touches a game consistently…give Zeke 15 or so and maybe mix in Turpin or lamb with a run play or 2.

 

[RonnieT24]

He does not have to be the guy. He just needs 10-12 touches a game consistently…give Zeke 15 or so and maybe mix in Turpin or lamb with a run play or 2.

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment.. What happens if they get off the plane at it's 34 degrees and alternating between freezing rain and snow with 25 mph winds and the passing game is grounded. Suddenly it turns into a grind it out sort of game where you attempt MAYBE 15-20 passes and run it 40 times.. The Cowboys play 3-4 of those every year and if they're good enough will play 2-3 more in the playoffs. On those days you need a back who can tote it 25-30 times and most of it into the teeth of a defense that knows you can't pass.. The Cowboys only have one of those.. As has been repeated ad nauseum.. the Cowboys need both backs and are lucky to have them.

 

[quickccc]

Tony Pollard can't be a lead running back in the NFL.

By his own admission. He tapped out after 15 carries.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article268190912.html

Good news is that this might make him a lot cheaper to re-sign.

- Maybe wishful thinking in trying to gain a cheap, bargain team friendly deal.
What you're bargain hunting for .. another NFL will see him differently, more unique, and teams always overpay because they see
players far more valuable.

- And if i'm Pollard's camp with other NFL teams thinking the world of me and offer big time $$ accordingly, why would
i wanna re-sign a cheap bargain based deal with the Cowboys ?

Just in case we're thinking " We can always get another Pollard in the NFL draft ? " Besides the Henry, Chubb, Taylor, McCaffrey, and Barkley, what other RBs
are we seeing frequently breaking long distance homeruns as Pollard has in brief time ?

I'm not seeing that many RBs around the NFL, with Pollard's pure burst and play speed- but can he maintain that play speed on a 15 carry, and 90% on the field way ?
- It's a difference between a full time starter vs a change of pace nickel back.

- Another difference is Pollard maybe a special type of nickel back. They don't have to be big carry load backs to be big impacts.
Even the Aaron Jones(GB) Austin Eckler (Chargers) and Ty Montgomery impact nickel back types do not have Pollard's instant burst and acceleration..Imo.

- RB’s like McCaffrey, are not 20 carry, tackle-breaking backs, but you have to design him, ..scheme him and spot him accordingly
You cannot workload him. Stretch-runs, quick RB screens, quick swing-flairs, wheel routes, working on splash plays not bell bow - but you cannot run him like Derrick Henry.

Maybe it's just me, but even Alvin Kamara Saints, ever since he's taken on a bigger role as full time starter, and a bigger work load,
does it seem like he doesn't make near as many wow- big splash wow plays as he did when he was coming off the bench his first years with the Saints ?

 

[Whyjerry]

Tony Pollard can't be a lead running back in the NFL.

By his own admission. He tapped out after 15 carries.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article268190912.html

Good news is that this might make him a lot cheaper to re-sign.

The guy is so productive in his role why change it? He just isn’t built like Henry. Tony is the perfect change of pace back.

 

[quickccc]

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment.. What happens if they get off the plane at it's 34 degrees and alternating between freezing rain and snow with 25 mph winds and the passing game is grounded. Suddenly it turns into a grind it out sort of game where you attempt MAYBE 15-20 passes and run it 40 times.. The Cowboys play 3-4 of those every year and if they're good enough will play 2-3 more in the playoffs. On those days you need a back who can tote it 25-30 times and most of it into the teeth of a defense that knows you can't pass.. The Cowboys only have one of those.. As has been repeated ad nauseum.. the Cowboys need both backs and are lucky to have them.

- If I have Elliott available - who is more suited vs bad slick weather affected games ..and he’s not a fumbler either. Then I’d go to that game plan. And I still want that change of pace splash plays
from Pollard, who in a game where defenders could be caught in mud, loss of balance and traction, could still have resounding wow splash plays to break a game open.

Then I would think you’d also have a need more from your short pass game, TEs, RBs, WR slants) and more physicality and run design creative from your OL and OC respectively, weather affected games.

- Pollard is not a Brutus of a load like Henry, Elliott, Chubb,etc. but he’s not pure finesse either,
He’s not a pure space guy. he has some tackle breaking lower body strength to a degree.
But in case where the weather elements affect the dynamics, Elliott would be my workload and Pollard my Joker in the Card hand.

- The bigger problem would be the work and questionable imagination of the OC in Kellen Moore. Who hates RB screens and it is very limited in
designing RB in the pass game.

 

[lukin2006]

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment.. What happens if they get off the plane at it's 34 degrees and alternating between freezing rain and snow with 25 mph winds and the passing game is grounded. Suddenly it turns into a grind it out sort of game where you attempt MAYBE 15-20 passes and run it 40 times.. The Cowboys play 3-4 of those every year and if they're good enough will play 2-3 more in the playoffs. On those days you need a back who can tote it 25-30 times and most of it into the teeth of a defense that knows you can't pass.. The Cowboys only have one of those.. As has been repeated ad nauseum.. the Cowboys need both backs and are lucky to have them.

Excellent points. Zeke 20, Pollard 15 carries get us to 35. Mix in Davis for 5 to 10 and Turpin. If you want Zeke to tote the rock 25 plus times a game, can he do that anymore? Games like this is why I prefer an elite defence to an elite offence. Defence travels well in awful weather…

 

[McMicah]

Well technically if you average twice as many yards per carry than your counterpart, you’d get winded twice as fast

 

[Runwildboys]

Well technically if you average twice as many yards per carry than your counterpart, you’d get winded twice as fast

What if you weigh half as much?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

“Pollard can’t carry the load” - no one is asking him to…

“Zeke wears defenses down which is why TP gets big plays” - proven wrong by Bears game.

“Zeke gets tough yards” - TP has a much higher yards after contact.

I just don’t get it…it’s ok to continue to like a player and admit they aren’t that aren’t that dude anymore.

Easy. Contact in space full on is easier. Contact one step after handoff is harder.

Your stats dont show details....acting like any form of contact is equal.

I think it's stupid to pit these two against each other. Throwing stats around as factual proof to serve agendas.

Cowboys fans suck &@!!$!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

- If I have Elliott available - who is more suited vs bad slick weather affected games ..and he’s not a fumbler either. Then I’d go to that game plan. And I still want that change of pace splash plays
from Pollard, who in a game where defenders could be caught in mud, loss of balance and traction, could still have resounding wow splash plays to break a game open.

Then I would think you’d also have a need more from your short pass game, TEs, RBs, WR slants) and more physicality and run design creative from your OL and OC respectively, weather affected games.

- Pollard is not a Brutus of a load like Henry, Elliott, Chubb,etc. but he’s not pure finesse either,
He’s not a pure space guy. he has some tackle breaking lower body strength to a degree.
But in case where the weather elements affect the dynamics, Elliott would be my workload and Pollard my Joker in the Card hand.

- The bigger problem would be the work and questionable imagination of the OC in Kellen Moore. Who hates RB screens and it is very limited in
designing RB in the pass game.

Great breakdown all the way around.

 

[cnuball21]

Easy. Contact in space full on is easier. Contact one step after handoff is harder.

Your stats dont show details....acting like any form of contact is equal.

I think it's stupid to pit these two against each other. Throwing stats around as factual proof to serve agendas.

Cowboys fans suck &@!!$!

So it’s Pollards fault when the defender gets a hand on him? Maybe he’s seeing the holes and hitting them faster? Maybe he actually has the burst and speed to get into space before he gets tackled?

I’m not putting them against each other…I’m just saying Zeke isn’t that dude anymore. He can still have his carries and help it just needs to be less than Pollard.

 

[817Gill]

Nobody is trying to omit anything. What I am saying (and I'm sure you will ignore again THIS TIME) is that being the lead dog will take those big plays out of Pollard's game over time. I said two weeks ago that I thought he'd be fine against the Bears.. One game isn't where it shows up.. It's over the course of a season.. week in and week out having to do the dirty work.. Blocking, short yardage, inside runs, outside runs, all of it. Every defense won't be Chicago. Some will be like Washington, or the Bucs, or the Eagles.. Some will defeat our line and force the back to make something on his own. Some will have great inside backers who don't let you get to the edge.

It's fascinating that folks claim in one breath that the toll of being the lead dog has taken away Zeke's burst.. then advocate doing the same thing to Pollard and expecting different results. If you hand over the lead dog role to Pollard you MIGHT get a 2-3 game bump from him. Maybe 5-6 games. Maybe you get a full season.. But eventually his slighter build, especially up top will cause him to lose juice. And when he loses that juice you guys will be clamoring for HIS backup and again act as if you have never seen this movie before..

Beautifully said

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

So it’s Pollards fault when the defender gets a hand on him? Maybe he’s seeing the holes and hitting them faster? Maybe he actually has the burst and speed to get into space before he gets tackled?

I’m not putting them against each other…I’m just saying Zeke isn’t that dude anymore. He can still have his carries and help it just needs to be less than Pollard.

Exactly. Your stat leaves a LOT of questions.

There should be NO hard counts. Design plays that suit them best...make in game adjustments. Situational.

Not only clalling plays that suit each, but calling therm at the right time. And with some surprise.

This notion that Zeke gets precisely 10....Tony precisely 15...is stupid.

Not sure what you mean but "zeke ain't "that" dude anymore". No back with 10 carries ever was or ever will be. Tony hasn't show he is a "dude" either. Gassed out.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

The guy is so productive in his role why change it? He just isn’t built like Henry. Tony is the perfect change of pace back.

The whole setup is perfect...except KM questionable play calling, lack of imagination.

But here we sit...bickering over our riches. DUMB.

 

[RonnieT24]

Excellent points. Zeke 20, Pollard 15 carries get us to 35. Mix in Davis for 5 to 10 and Turpin. If you want Zeke to tote the rock 25 plus times a game, can he do that anymore? Games like this is why I prefer an elite defence to an elite offence. Defence travels well in awful weather…

We may never find out if Zeke can tote it that many times while he is in Dallas. He only hit 20 carries twice in 2021 and I believe only got there three times in 2020. As I've said many times, that's just not the way Moore wants to play football. I readily acknowledge that there is more than one way of winning football games so if we win doing it his way then fine by me. But the last time we won a playoff game it was 2018 and it was on the shoulders of Zeke that we did so.. Now he (and his line) are a little older these days.. but I think he could muster up one or two more such games for the playoffs if asked.