Possible Loophole In Vick Case...

[Beast_from_East]

do caps make you feel better?

im well aware that they were slave owners and slavery was wrong as people shouldnt be property. are you trying to say dogs shouldnt be property?

im not getting your point.

What I am saying is that I dont "get off" like Vick did killing dogs with my bare hands.

Go read the inditement, Vick did not just fight dogs, he killed the dogs that lost. Like Jim Rome said, if you are going to kill a dog, then just shoot it. Why torture the animal by hanging it, electrocuting it, or slamming its head into the ground until you hear its skull crack.

The only reason you would "torture" instead of "kill", is if that is how you like to "get off".

It is very apparant you think dogs are propety and if you want to torture a dog till death, that is your priveledge. Maybe that is how you "get off", I dont know, I could never do what Vick has done and I could never defend someone like Vick, as you are doing now.

 

[Beast_from_East]

im not against it. there is a difference.

we kill cows for breeding purposes but when you do it to a dog its execution.

THEYRE DOGS NOT PEOPLE.

Also stealing other peoples dogs is theft so of course im against that. if they want to buy dogs and feed them to tother dogs i could care less.

The defense "there just dogs" is the issue here. For you, dogs are simply property like a chair or a table. For everybody else on this board (and for the majority of America), dogs are pets.

What outrages people the most is that Vick tortured the dogs that lost. He did not just run a dogfighting operation, he personally killed the dogs that lost for him. What is most appalling is that he did not just kill the dogs,

VICK TORTURED THE DOGS

How can you defend the torturing of animals as "they are my property"?

 

[Beast_from_East]

no they just take the babies and scare the crap out of them and chase them on something 4 times as big as them and then tie them up. either that or put something on them that causes them to convulsively kick and freak out.

but again if we were to eat the dogs then it would be okay?

this picking and choosing of utilitarian ethics is nice and all but jeez.

Ethics???

You are talking ethics, Mr. "its my property and I can torture if I want"

Please.....and calf roping is wrong also. However to use this example that because of calf roping, it is ok to torture dogs..........Well that line of thinking is just ****** dumb.

 

[BHendri5]

Vick will not do the whole 23 months, it has already been stated that he could be in someone's training camp in August.

Personally he should have just got fined and the kennel shut down. I had the baddest dog in my neighborhood growing up, that is what we did.
Also whenever I went to my grandparents who lived in the country, we had a big boar hog that was kind of a pet as well as a stud, and my grandfather had other boars to, we would put them in a pen with a female that was in season so they would fight. We also fought roosters, and we made our studs horses fight. It was something we did we made our own fun.

On the dogs we made some money at times, my uncle used walk to town with one of our biggest dogs and win money in fights.

Guys would go and get dogs out of the dog pound to see if they were bad enough to beat our dogs, if they lost the would just let them go.

that is the type of stuff that goes on in the Hood, Ghetto, East side or whatever name you want to call it, it was part of our environment.

It was not a big deal to me, yes, he should have rcvd some punishment, but not jail time.

Most of the time you grow out of the fighting dogs stage, I guess Vick did not.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Vick will not do the whole 23 months, it has already been stated that he could be in someone's training camp in August.

Personally he should have just got fined and the kennel shut down. I had the baddest dog in my neighborhood growing up, that is what we did.
Also whenever I went to my grandparents who lived in the country, we had a big boar hog that was kind of a pet as well as a stud, and my grandfather had other boars to, we would put them in a pen with a female that was in season so they would fight. We also fought roosters, and we made our studs horses fight. It was something we did we made our own fun.

On the dogs we made some money at times, my uncle used walk to town with one of our biggest dogs and win money in fights.

Guys would go and get dogs out of the dog pound to see if they were bad enough to beat our dogs, if they lost the would just let them go.

that is the type of stuff that goes on in the Hood, Ghetto, East side or whatever name you want to call it, it was part of our environment.

It was not a big deal to me, yes, he should have rcvd some punishment, but not jail time.

Most of the time you grow out of the fighting dogs stage, I guess Vick did not.

If Vick's dogs lost, they were hung, electrocuted, drowned, and slammed to the ground until their skulls craked open.

And you still think no jail time?

WOW, JUST WOW

 

[CF74]

Hey guys I found out a little something from one of my fraternity brothers....what are your thoughts to this:

Vick could get out in less than a year because of a loophole in the system. Mike Vick is planning on entering the prison's Residential Drug Abuse Treatment Program (RDAP) - an intensive substance abuse treatment program which qualifies eligible graduates for a one year sentence reduction. It's been said that Vick has already requested to be admitted to the program.

So therefore, the story gets even better for Vick because he entered prison before his sentencing date, his release date will likely be pushed up even further. Not to mention that with credit for good behavior and the RDAP sentence reduction, Vick may even be out by the beginning of next year's NFL season.

This all makes sense especially the early entry part and the positive test on the marijuana (when he knew he would be tested)........I mentioned this in the NFL Zone, but I figured it would be a hot topic in the Fan Zone....Sorry Mods

Vick will be out in about 7 months:shush:

 

[silverbear]

Some of the people of PETA are such hypocrites....If you notice on some of their marches and protests, some of them are wearing leather shoes

Yes, PETA has a whole bunch of card-carrying zealots, and some of them are utter hypocrites... although I'm basically in sympathy with their agenda, they're a wee bit too far out there for me to be on their side...

They also have some juice around the country, whether you like it or not...

 

[silverbear]

He has been suspend since his trial and chargers where brought against him.

IF he serves his time and gets out on good behavior etc I bet Roger lets him back in. No way the commish adds on much more to the current suspension and time served in the jail.

Oh, really?? Gee, I guess he didn't suspend Tank Johnson for an additional 8 games after HE got out of jail...

With that as a precedent, it's nearly certain that Vick will face at least an additional one year suspension when he's finally released from prison...

But if the NFL let Leonard Little and Jamal Lewis back into the league, eventually they'll more or less have to let Vick back in... the former killed a woman driving drunk, the latter was dealing drugs...

 

[silverbear]

There was the infamous water bottle incident which was a drug related arrest and he has a documented positive result. Youre a lawyer, how hard do you think it would be to plead that to the board or whatever oversees this type of thing?

REAL hard... first, the "infamous water bottle incident" resulted in no charges, because the tests on that infamous water bottle revealed NO drugs... second, the documented positive result was in the last month, and by the quote YOU provided, an inmate applying for that program has to have had a drug problem for at least a year prior to his being jailed...

Only an idiot would believe that any inmate could walk into the office and say "I've had a drug problem for over a year", and be accepted into the program on his word alone... if you did that, EVERY inmate would be trying to get his sentence reduced by going through that program...

Clearly, some PROOF of a long-standing drug issue would be required for admission in the first place... Vick could not offer such proof without opening himself up to drug charges, and more jail time...

 

[silverbear]

IF he was already in the NFL substance abuse program, then that could be a documented substance abuse problem. We don't know that he was in the program or not.

Excellent point, and one I hadn't thought of...

 

[silverbear]

Now that i agree with. Goodell will bow to the mob on that cause that is just his style.

LOL at you calling those condeming Vick "the mob"...

That "mob" is comprised of the folks who pay for the tickets, buy the merchandise, etc., etc., ad infinitum... without them, the NFL goes belly up, in a great big hurry...

Given that reality, Goodell would have to be a card-carrying moron NOT to "bow to" their outrage...

You really are the absolute caricature of a knee-jerk liberal, you ought to be working for the ACLU... you are, basically, a JOKE on this board as a result of your idiotic, ongoing defense of a piece of human garbage, and you have nobody but yourself to blame for that... you got REAL scarce when Vick was sentenced, now there's a remote possibility that he'll be able to work the system to beat the system, and you're all over this board with your lame defense of that piece of crap once more...

 

[silverbear]

thats all well in good but he was still arrested for suspision of possession of controlled substance.

LOL... I swear to God, you have absolutely NO reading comprehension, do you?? He was ultimately NOT CHARGED for that alleged crime, which means it cannot now be offered as proof of an ongoing drug problem...

the bottom line that some people apparently are conveniently ignoring is that he has a FAILED DRUG TEST FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.

No, the bottom line is that YOU have "conveniently ignored" that in order to qualify for the program, he has to be able to document that he's had a drug problem FOR AT LEAST A YEAR PRIOR TO HIS BEING JAILED...

That drug test was in the last month, so if it's all he's got to show the folks who decide who gets into that program, he simply doesn't qualify...

What's ironic about this is that YOU'RE the one who researched the program, and told us how it works... seems you didn't really comprehend what you posted your own self... reading is fundamental, hoss...

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Vick isn't incarcerated because of substance problem so I don't see how RDATP can reduced his sentence.

If such a positive drug test factored into sentencing guidelines as the judge, I recall saying, said in the sentencing, then ipo factorum a case could be made for resentencing under federal statute.

Further, under NFL rules and collective bargaining, if he claims years of drug problems to apply to mandated testing and or treatment, Goodell would have just cause for an even harsher ban once Vick leaves federal custody.
I am not an attorney but I did stay once at a Holiday Express Inn.

 

[silverbear]

Hint: Yes he is

Vick's attorney, William R. "Billy" Martin, announced Monday that the quarterback would plead guilty to the federal dogfighting charges and is "prepared to take full responsibility for allowing any and all of this to happen." Vick is scheduled to appear next Monday in U.S. District Court in Richmond. Sources familiar with the case, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal is not final, have said he is expected to plead guilty to a single conspiracy count and that the recommended sentencing range will be 12 to 18 months in prison.

Are you so naive that you believe what a defense lawyer says to the public about his client??

He was charged with, and pleaded guilty to, conspiracy to commit illegal gambling (the dog fights)... the league does not allow its players to associate with known gamblers, that goes back literally decades, to when Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were suspended for a full year for their ties to gamblers...

 

[silverbear]

No, he wasn't arrested, read that article again.

Asking Fuzzy to comprehend anything he reads is an exercise in futility...

 

[silverbear]

Yeah I edited my post with that, too. But if he wants to go into this program and wants to use something other than the failed test by the courts, then he could submit that info as evidence.

As I said before, that makes perfect sense to me... I'm impressed that you seem to have been the only one to think of that... when I read it, it was like Doh!!, why didn't I think of that??

 

[silverbear]

Sorry BigD if someone failed a test that would leave a paper trail which equals to a history....It doesn't have to be multiple instances, all it takes is one.....

But to qualify for the program, you have to demonstrate (prove) that you've had a drug problem for at least a year prior to your being jailed... obviously, a failed drug test a MONTH ago doesn't meet that requirement...

That's the key requirement that you're missing...

 

[silverbear]

Fair enough but it certainly lends to that. All he has to say is that he cannot control his dreadful marijuana addiction and that is why he was getting high while awaiting sentencing.

No, that's NOT all he has to say... if that was all it took, literally every inmate who ever heard of that program would be looking to lessen his sentence by getting into that problem...

It's beyond asinine to believe that all you have to do is SAY you have a drug history, and you're in... I mean, we're talking about CRIMINALS here, their veracity has to be doubted...

I want him to get it. i think it will be fun watching SB and the rest of Draconian Vigilante Death Squad crying about it.

First, get the name right, it's the Draconian Vigilante Squad... no "death" in the title...

Second, and more to the point, I knew from your first post to this thread that you wanted Vick to get off, and why... you're still smarting from being made to look the fool, and would desperately LOVE to be able to get over on us for that...

The problem is, your looking like a fool is entirely YOUR fault... and you're doing even more of it now, by not making any effort at all to try to understand the qualifications for entering that program, or how it works... again, this is highly comical, inasmuch as YOU were the one who went and looked the program up, and posted the specifics of how it works...

You have "conveniently ignored" that an offender has to be able to show that he's had a drug problem for at least a year prior to his incarceration, whereas now all we know is that he flunked a drug test in the last month...

You have "conveniently ignored" that Vick would have to PASS the program to even merit consideration of a possible sentence reduction... given that he couldn't even stay away from the dope while he was awaiting sentencing, how realistic a chance of walking the straight and narrow do you REALLY see him as having??

You have "conveniently ignored" that even if he DOES pass the program, it STILL doesn't mean that he'll get his sentence reduced... and if he does, the reduction will not automatically be a year, that's the BEST case scenario... it could be less...

Hell, you don't even know how long it might take him to complete the program...

But none of that kept you from gettin' all excited about the chance of getting a little "payback" on those of us who ridiculed you when you were defending Vick prior to his conviction... well, even if he does manage to get some time knocked off of his sentence, that won't change the fact that you were wrong all along in our original arguments, and it won't change the fact that you have lost a lot of credibility with many if not most of this board's posters as a result of your ongoing defense of a piece of garbage...

But hey, I can't tell you how good it makes me feel that you singled me out, LOL... it's GOOD to know I got under your pelt that way... I'm a happy, happy Bear right about now...

The only thing that could make me happier is if the Commonwealth of Virginia REALLY sticks it to him this spring...

 

[silverbear]

aye i was incorrect.

Again... for the 11 billionth time...

 

[silverbear]

That based solely on my own experience, frat brothers are not the most reliable news source.

I haven't seen this discussion on any other football board...