Prisco: Top 10 Pass Rushers of all-time (Ware #8)

[ShiningStar]

Child please...

says it all.

you have to admit, the girl weaves a sentence and a statement with as little as possible.

 

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

There is probably a reason you get dog piled.

Comparing Ware to George is just one such reason.

This fan base needs clorox in the gene pool.

Yes they do, but our fan base is too stupid to get the child proof cap off to pour it in.

 

[Nation]

One of the first things I learned joining this site is that your not allowed to say a negative thing about Ware. :laugh2:

I'd just like it in some context. If you want to say he doesn't get enough sacks in the fourth quarter of close games that's fine. But show me for comparison what other elite players are doing in those situations (% of sacks in 4th quarter, % of sacks per fourth quarter drop back faced, whatever) so there is some context there. A theis of not-clutchy enough doesn't hold up when there are no comparisons with it.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

great players rushed the passer in the days when they didn't count sacks and teams threw about 15 times a game--I have never like the guys who were just one dimensional pass rushers; give me the old-school complete LBs and DL

 

[erod]

There is probably a reason you get dog piled.

Comparing Ware to George is just one such reason.

This fan base needs clorox in the gene pool.

You read that as comparing Ware to Jeff George? Interesting.

No, I was just making a comment about stats as a barometer.

Ware is sometimes great. Sometimes, he completely disappears. Simple enough.

 

[Nova]

How spoiled can we be?

Since 2005 Ware has the most sacks of any player. 3 more than 2nd place Jared Allen, and 30 more than 3rd place Julius Peppers.

He's consistently ranked much higher in terms of pass rushing efficiency than Jared Allen year in year out.

He's got the 2nd most forced fumbles during that span as well, only behind Charles Tillman.

The reason that Ware's impact plays rarely gain notoriety is because the mediocre team he's on rarely does anything with them.

 

[jrumann59]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

A little hyperbole, if Ellis put up the numbers Ware has to this point in his career he would not have been dogged as much as he was.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Other then games where he was discernibly injured and those injuries clearly affected his play (and there have been those games), I've never seen Ware blocked by just one man. If Ware is disappearing behind double and triple teams, then it stands to reason that others should be free to pick up pressures or sacks.

Ware has been everything you could ask for in a player IMO. You can make the argument that he is not enough of a leader and that's fine but from the stand point of production, team player, representing the team and just off the field leading by example, the Cowboys have been lucky to have had him IMO.

 

[Frozen700]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

 

[burmafrd]

DeMarcus Ware suffers from the Elvin Bethea disease. stuck on a lousy team

 

[Future]

which player made every play he needed to make in every "big" game he played in every time THAT the team needed it?

By select you mean THAT one Jax team, or the time Ware got tired playing his heart out for this team? which team was that?

You guys are just being flat out silly. Ooooooo WARE DIDNT GET THAT SACK WE NEEDED, HE SUCKS, some guy on the SAINTS PWNS ALL.

get real.

Not saying that.

But if you're going to call someone else's critique "silly" because they have selective memory, then you have to look at the flip side.

The reality is that DeMarcus Ware is an outstanding talent who has put up productive numbers. But to think that he's a clutch performer or a dominant player is a serious stretch, imo.

 

[Nation]

The reality is that DeMarcus Ware is an outstanding talent who has put up productive numbers. But to think that he's a clutch performer or a dominant player is a serious stretch, imo.

Who is then?

 

[ShiningStar]

Not saying that.

But if you're going to call someone else's critique "silly" because they have selective memory, then you have to look at the flip side.

The reality is that DeMarcus Ware is an outstanding talent who has put up productive numbers. But to think that he's a clutch performer or a dominant player is a serious stretch, imo.

i can agree, but the question is, who is this person you speak of that is dominant all the time, at the drop of a whim, on demand, and no one can block at the time that its needed?

 

[erod]

How spoiled can we be?

Since 2005 Ware has the most sacks of any player. 3 more than 2nd place Jared Allen, and 30 more than 3rd place Julius Peppers.

He's consistently ranked much higher in terms of pass rushing efficiency than Jared Allen year in year out.

He's got the 2nd most forced fumbles during that span as well, only behind Charles Tillman.

The reason that Ware's impact plays rarely gain notoriety is because the mediocre team he's on rarely does anything with them.

Again, stats. They mean virtually nothing so much of the time.

Russell Maryland had zero stats, but he was an outstanding player. Same for Troy Aikman for that matter. His numbers were rather pedstrian as far as all-time great quarterbacks go.

Art Monk had astronomical stats, but he wasn't one of the top ten receivers of all time. Not by a mile. Same for guys like Tim Brown and Deion Branch. Awfully good players, but not top ten of all time.

Ware is a terrific player. Love that he's here. But he's got a lot of empty numbers, and he's disappeared in many games, too.

 

[erod]

i can agree, but the question is, who is this person you speak of that is dominant all the time, at the drop of a whim, on demand, and no one can block at the time that its needed?

Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Charles Haley, Randy White, Reggie White, Jim Marshall, Wilber Marshall, Warren Sapp, Randy White, Richard Seymour, Joe Greene....the bigger the moment, they better they played on a consistent basis.

Today and recently, it's Patrick Willis, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jared Allen, and others. Ware is in that next tier.

Leon Lett played his best football in the most critical moments of big games. He had a great knack for showing up when it counted most.

 

[Future]

Who is then?

Hard to put one name on that, but for comparison, take him and Harrsion in 2008, the year Harrison won DPOY.

Ware had 20 sacks.

15 of the 20 came in games separated by at least 8 points. Only 5 came in one score games.

Harrison had 16 sacks.

But 6.5 of them came in games decided by 1 score. And he had an INT and safety in those games.

Harrison did play in 2 more 1 score games than Ware (8 vs. 6)

I know there are a million factors that count into the score and blah blah blah...but based on that, you could say that Harrison is, in fact, more clutch than Ware.

Just to add on a bit, in 09, in 8 games decided by 1 score, Ware only had 5 of his 11 sacks. In 2010, in 11 games, he had 12.5. 2011, 9 sacks in 9 games, but had 8.5 in just 5 decided by 2 scores.

While this doesn't necessarily show that he plays worse in tight games, it doesn't show that he elevates his game. He plays at a high level all the time. To be clutch, you have to perform better in the toughest games. I don't think he does that.

 

[Nation]

While this doesn't necessarily show that he plays worse in tight games, it doesn't show that he elevates his game. He plays at a high level all the time. To be clutch, you have to perform better in the toughest games. I don't think he does that.

I think without a comparison to multiple players in those situations, it doesn't show much other than players accumulate fewer sacks in close games than they do in other games. Which passes the sniff test, because if you're behind you're going to be dropping back to pass more often.

 

[erod]

I hate these threads, because it always seems like I'm piling on Ware, and he's actually one of my favorite players on the team.

Let me say this....

Kiffin's 4-3 will benefit Ware tremendously. It'll get him thinking about one thing only, getting the dude with the damn ball.

 

[Plumfool]

Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Charles Haley, Randy White, Reggie White, Jim Marshall, Wilber Marshall, Warren Sapp, Randy White, Richard Seymour, Joe Greene....the bigger the moment, they better they played on a consistent basis.

Today and recently, it's Patrick Willis, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Jared Allen, and others. Ware is in that next tier.

Leon Lett played his best football in the most critical moments of big games. He had a great knack for showing up when it counted most.

Of all these players mentioned I can recall each one being paired with or there being multiple very good pass rushers right along side them.

 

[Future]

I think without a comparison to multiple players in those situations, it doesn't show much other than players accumulate fewer sacks in close games than they do in other games. Which passes the sniff test, because if you're behind you're going to be dropping back to pass more often.

I looked at a handful of others from that year. They were all about the same. Joey Porter was the "worst," in terms of sacks that came in 2 score games I believe.