Prosecutor in Taylor's case screws up.

[iceberg]

It absolutely does... so what youre saying is.... we could get a bum off of the streets, and put him into a court room??? the way the case is run has everything to do with the outcome. that is why the judge will see that Seans case has been a bunch of BS since the beginning. the judge will look at why the other prosecuter is now off of the case... that right there (a change in prosecuters) changes the whole thing. especially because he used misconduct. the judge will see that things have not been run well and then Sean will be cleared. get it through your head.

one more time for the terminally slow...

sean was accused of committing a crime.
sean will stand trial for that crime
if DA acts up, DA gets removed
sean will still stand trial

now - get it through YOUR friggin head - most of u DO NOT GIVE A DAMN about the problems of a Commanders player. your incessant need to pummell us with juvenille "i'm a stud look at me!" crap is old and boring now.

you're in the wrong place looking for pity boy cause one thing we all know is if sean were a COWBOY you'd be in here saying he was going to hang at sunrise.

hypocritical morons.

 

[zrinkill]

Wow. What do you think misconduct is you idiot?.

I see someone not being here very long ............... another troll bites the dust.....

 

[Mr. Grundle]

one more time for the terminally slow...

sean was accused of committing a crime.
sean will stand trial for that crime
if DA acts up, DA gets removed
sean will still stand trial

now - get it through YOUR friggin head - most of u DO NOT GIVE A DAMN about the problems of a Commanders player. your incessant need to pummell us with juvenille "i'm a stud look at me!" crap is old and boring now.

you're in the wrong place looking for pity boy cause one thing we all know is if sean were a COWBOY you'd be in here saying he was going to hang at sunrise.

hypocritical morons.

I agree completely. If Sean Taylor was a Cowboy and in the same situation I'd be calling him a thug and a punk and wouldn't care if he went to jail for life. But he is a Commander, so I hope he gets off and doesn't have to miss a game.

Can you admit that if Taylor was a Cowboy you would be defending him the exact same way Commanders fans are?

 

[iceberg]

I agree completely. If Sean Taylor was a Cowboy and in the same situation I'd be calling him a thug and a punk and wouldn't care if he went to jail for life. But he is a Commander, so I hope he gets off and doesn't have to miss a game.

Can you admit that if Taylor was a Cowboy you would be defending him the exact same way Commanders fans are?

no cause i wouldn't - but i CAN appreciate THIS response.

if taylor broke the law and was a cowboy i'd want to see him go through the process as "cleanly" as possible OF WHICH is so very difficult to do as a celebrity. people know him, or know OF him, so they can make wild *** guesses and opinions on his "crime" - and again, i don't care.

let him stand trial, odds are he'll get off, but probably not for the jock-carrying reasons many fans are boasting. worried about misconduct by the DA is just hope in a bottle man and NOTHING to do with the actions of taylor himself.

just because someone is on a team i choose to watch and root for does NOT make me an apologist *for* said players. for example i hated TO years ago, i hate him MORE now, but not much i can do about it is there? i ust happen to be in the minority in that i'm not out there now busting my arse to defend all of TO's stupid garbage. i didn't defend it when he was a 9'er, a raven or an eagle so i sure won't defend it now.

so excuse me if i get sick of fans taking fandom to the point of being stupid by putting their players above the law or their again - incessant need to defend his every move because of a stupid GAME.

it's like watching a herd of children wondering which will grow up first and realize much of this and quit trolling other forums with their teams problems looking for pity they're NOT going to find.

 

[sacase]

I agree completely. If Sean Taylor was a Cowboy and in the same situation I'd be calling him a thug and a punk and wouldn't care if he went to jail for life. But he is a Commander, so I hope he gets off and doesn't have to miss a game.

Can you admit that if Taylor was a Cowboy you would be defending him the exact same way Commanders fans are?

You must not been aroudn where when MI got arrested for possesion last year. Many Cowboy fans still don't belive that it was his friends stuff. It is kind of sad that you advocate a criminal getting off on his charges just becasue he plays for your team. Pathetic really.

Well now that Silverbear put everyone on blast I don't think anything more needs to be said.

 

[iceberg]

You must not been aroudn where when MI got arrested for possesion last year. Many Cowboy fans still don't belive that it was his friends stuff. It is kind of sad that you advocate a criminal getting off on his charges just becasue he plays for your team. Pathetic really.

Well now that Silverbear put everyone on blast I don't think anything more needs to be said.

forgot about that one - but yea, i was just "wait and see" like many, but many were ripping him up for putting himself in that position.

 

[superpunk]

It absolutely does... so what youre saying is.... we could get a bum off of the streets, and put him into a court room??? the way the case is run has everything to do with the outcome. that is why the judge will see that Seans case has been a bunch of BS since the beginning. the judge will look at why the other prosecuter is now off of the case... that right there (a change in prosecuters) changes the whole thing. especially because he used misconduct. the judge will see that things have not been run well and then Sean will be cleared. get it through your head.

Does the prosecutor's CONDUCT in this instance have anything to do with whether or not Sean Taylor did or did not pull a gun on other civilians? Does the prosecutor's conduct have anything to do with how evidence was handled, compiled, or shared with the defense?

In jurisprudence, prosecutorial misconduct is a procedural defense; via which, a defendant may argue that they should not be held criminally liableactions which may have broken the law, because the prosecution acted in an "inappropriate" or "unfair" manner. Such arguments may involve allegations that the prosecution withheld evidence or knowingly permitted false testimony. This is similar to selective prosecution. for

In late 1993, the 6th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that John Demjanjuk1986 had been a victim of prosecutorial misconduct during atrial in which federal prosecutors withheld evidence. Demjanjuk's sentence was overturned, but he lost when his case was retried.


In the 1995 murder trial of O. J. Simpson, the defense argued that Los Angeles Police Department detective Mark Fuhrman had planted "evidence" at the crime scene. Although Fuhrman denied the allegations, Simpson was found "not guilty". In USA Today (August 24, 1995), Francis ***uyamagovernment stated, "[Such defenses lead to] a distrust of and the belief that public authorities are in a vast conspiracy to violate the rights of individuals."


Sean Taylor's rights were not violated here. Read the above, and try to wrap your tiny Taylor-humping brain around that. I tried to bold the important parts, to make it a little easier on you. Take a nap part-way through, if necessary. But please, learn something, and stop boring the snot out of us with your pointless arguments that some meaningless bit of personal information about the prosecutor is going to have any bearing on the facts of this case.

 

[Mr. Grundle]

It is kind of sad that you advocate a criminal getting off on his charges just becasue he plays for your team. Pathetic really.

It's kind of sad that blind hatred has convinced you that he is a "criminal trying to get off his charges". Can you understand that nothing has been proven yet? He has been accused of a crime, not convicted. Therefore he is not a criminal, yet.

If a jury finds him guilty, I will be disappointed, but I will also admit that he is a criminal and deserves whatever he gets.

 

[silverbear]

It's kind of sad that blind hatred has convinced you that he is a "criminal trying to get off his charges". Can you understand that nothing has been proven yet? He has been accused of a crime, not convicted. Therefore he is not a criminal, yet.

If a jury finds him guilty, I will be disappointed, but I will also admit that he is a criminal and deserves whatever he gets.

A fair argument, I'll take no issue with it... just note that a lot of your brother Skins fans are equally guilty of prejudging this case, of presupposing Sean's innocence with no evidence to support their doing so...

I can also respect your assertion that you'll stand in condemnation against him if he's found guilty, you seem to have your moral compass in working order...

 

[iceberg]

It's kind of sad that blind hatred has convinced you that he is a "criminal trying to get off his charges". Can you understand that nothing has been proven yet? He has been accused of a crime, not convicted. Therefore he is not a criminal, yet.

If a jury finds him guilty, I will be disappointed, but I will also admit that he is a criminal and deserves whatever he gets.

who let a sane person be a skins fan??? >g< nothing at all wrong with your stance and thank you for also fighting through the "crap" with us on this one to simply come to terms with reality, not team-ra ra stuff.

 

[silverbear]

You must not been aroudn where when MI got arrested for possesion last year. Many Cowboy fans still don't belive that it was his friends stuff. It is kind of sad that you advocate a criminal getting off on his charges just becasue he plays for your team. Pathetic really.

Well now that Silverbear put everyone on blast I don't think anything more needs to be said.

C'mon, don't make me do ALL the work... pull your share of the load, I'm already spending WAY too much time talkin' draft stuff... if I keep up this pace, I'll be dead before the draft actually gets here...

Help me out, here... LOL...

 

[sacase]

It's kind of sad that blind hatred has convinced you that he is a "criminal trying to get off his charges". Can you understand that nothing has been proven yet? He has been accused of a crime, not convicted. Therefore he is not a criminal, yet.

If a jury finds him guilty, I will be disappointed, but I will also admit that he is a criminal and deserves whatever he gets.

Yes in my mind I think he is a criminal. From the things I have read about the case I have no doubt that he pulled out a gun. That is MY opinion, however I admit I havent' seen the depositions of the witnesses, I don't know who they are and I don't know what all the eveidence is. It is also my opinion that he is behaving as someone who is guilty but is trying to weasal out of it. The problem I have is when people say I hope he gets off. To me that implies that you belive he is guilty but you hope that he doesn't get in trouble for doing the crime. If people had said I hope he is found innocent that is one thing, but in saying get off you are implying another.

So let me guess you think OJ is completly innocent?

 

[Mr. Grundle]

Yes in my mind I think he is a criminal. From the things I have read about the case I have no doubt that he pulled out a gun. That is MY opinion, however I admit I havent' seen the depositions of the witnesses, I don't know who they are and I don't know what all the eveidence is. It is also my opinion that he is behaving as someone who is guilty but is trying to weasal out of it. The problem I have is when people say I hope he gets off. To me that implies that you belive he is guilty but you hope that he doesn't get in trouble for doing the crime. If people had said I hope he is found innocent that is one thing, but in saying get off you are implying another.

So let me guess you think OJ is completly innocent?

Let me clarify for you. First of all, I hope he is innocent. If he is not innocent, and it is proven that he pulled out a gun and pointed it at a law-abiding citizen, then I will be disappointed that I backed a criminal/thug and admit that he deserves what he gets. BUT, if it is proven that the people he pointed a gun at did steal from him, have criminal records, and are proven to be people of low character, then I hope he gets off, even if he is guilty.

This is where I think the Florida law is screwy. I think it's meant to be hard on people who rob citizens at gunpoint, and crimes of that nature. But if someone pulls a gun out of fear or to defend themselves, they could get loopholed into a bs charge or prison sentence.

I know Sean Taylor was probably not defending himself, but considering the circumstances of the situation (if proven to be true), and these guys are proven to be criminals, then I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Probation or community service seems more fitting.

The second Sean Taylor turns on a law-abiding citizen is the second I turn on him.

OJ innocent? Bahahahahaaahhaaa.

 

[sacase]

Let me clarify for you. First of all, I hope he is innocent. If he is not innocent, and it is proven that he pulled out a gun and pointed it at a law-abiding citizen, then I will be disappointed that I backed a criminal/thug and admit that he deserves what he gets. BUT, if it is proven that the people he pointed a gun at did steal from him, have criminal records, and are proven to be people of low character, then I hope he gets off, even if he is guilty.

This is where I think the Florida law is screwy. I think it's meant to be hard on people who rob citizens at gunpoint, and crimes of that nature. But if someone pulls a gun out of fear or to defend themselves, they could get loopholed into a bs charge or prison sentence.

I know Sean Taylor was probably not defending himself, but considering the circumstances of the situation (if proven to be true), and these guys are proven to be criminals, then I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Probation or community service seems more fitting.

The second Sean Taylor turns on a law-abiding citizen is the second I turn on him.

OJ innocent? Bahahahahaaahhaaa.

ok that is probally the most resonable post about this that I have heard from a skins fan.

However I don't agree that he should get off even if the guys are criminals and even if they stole his property. Someone who was innocent could have gotten hurt. Picture this: He goes and finds the guys and confronts them with a guy, they pull guns and everyone starts shooting wildly. No one actually gets shot just a lot of bullets fly. 10 minutes later an ambulance comes and pulls a 10 year old girl out of the next door house where she was in her room playing with dolls. A stray bullet hit her and she looses her life all because someone wanted to take the law into their own hands. I know that is worse possible scenario, but it has happend before and will probally happen again. There is a reason why we have police.

Least we can agree about OJ

 

[hermitkid]

What a pathetic piece of propaganda... Taylor refused to cop a plea for one reason, and one reason only-- the prosecution refused to drop the charges to a misdemeanor... they were willing to offer probation, no jail time, but they insisted that he plead to a felony...

Look, I see the point you're trying to make, but think about this rationally for a second. If the Taylors defense team thought there was a good chance their client could be convicted they would advise Taylor to take the plea regardless of the repurcussions.

A couple of games suspension and his reputation would be a small price to pay for freedom.

Which apparently includes gleefully engaging in some pretty slimy tactics... it's a wonder to me that the prosecution hasn't asked the judge to issue a gag order on all participants, with the way the defense is trying to taint the jury pool by trying this case in the media...

Taylor's lawyers knew perfectly well that what Grieco did, while incredibly tacky, incredibly low-class, didn't come CLOSE to prosecutorial misconduct... what this was about was simple-- they were looking to slime the prosecution, in an effort to gain a tactical advantage...

Gleffully? Not sure how you got that idea but I agree that the tactics are questionable. On the other hand it's also clear that the prosecution wasn't exactly playing fair.

Grieco claims that he didn't know about the criminal background of the witnesses but if he had done his due dilligence he would have found out rather quickly. How on earth do you not take into account the credibility of the alleged victims in a case where there is NO physical evidence whatsoever.

Remember, Sean Taylor never fired a gun, and the prosecutions case rests entirely on the statements made by the alleged victims.

He may not have gotten any financial gain out of this particular case, but I'm sure the panties of his DJ groupies were dropping much faster with each mention of his name in various news articles.

 

[rdsknsbaby]

ok all that i was trying to say is that.... no matter whether he did it or not... he will not be convicted and sentenced to any amount of time in jail. if he is guilty.... he deserves to go to jail. but you and i both know that if O.J can get off, what makes you think that Sean cant. Again if he did do it, (i honestly think that he did) then he SHOULD go to jail. but again he WONT. do you honestly think he will?

 

[sacase]

ok all that i was trying to say is that.... no matter whether he did it or not... he will not be convicted and sentenced to any amount of time in jail. if he is guilty.... he deserves to go to jail. but you and i both know that if O.J can get off, what makes you think that Sean cant. Again if he did do it, (i honestly think that he did) then he SHOULD go to jail. but again he WONT. do you honestly think he will?

I know OJ, and Sean Taylor is no OJ!

 

[rdsknsbaby]

I know OJ, and Sean Taylor is no OJ!

i wasnt talking about the trial situation.( even though the case is different, they still are/were NFL players.) thats what i meant by what i said.

 

[iceberg]

ok all that i was trying to say is that.... no matter whether he did it or not... he will not be convicted and sentenced to any amount of time in jail. if he is guilty.... he deserves to go to jail. but you and i both know that if O.J can get off, what makes you think that Sean cant. Again if he did do it, (i honestly think that he did) then he SHOULD go to jail. but again he WONT. do you honestly think he will?

ooo - floating down to reality. : )

if all he did was wave a gun at someone then no, i do NOT thing he belongs in jail. i think it's a stupid law if taken as "verbatim" and doesn't allow for extenuating circumstances. while i do believe ignorance of the law is no excuse, it's also not meant to rail someone w/o a fair chance to talk about what happened.

THIS is what his day in court is about. NOT the DA. NOT us fans, and certainly not trolling other newsgroups on some "free sean taylor" grassroots campaign.

fine him for his "crime" (in texas waving a gun at someone is called driving to work, quit cutting me off you *), ensur he understands the ramifications of his actions and let's all move on. *if* taylor *is* a criminal then sooner or later he'll rae carruth someone and there won't be a need for a stupid middle-ground debate on guilt or innocence of celebraties in america.

much like i felt irvin got attention because he was irvin (if i had strippers and drugs in a motel room most of my friends high 5 me for the party) this is because of who taylor is. while people LOVE to say he can't use who he is as a defense, i say he should because that's the only reason ANY ONE IN HERE CARES.

let law take it's course and taylor should get what any "generic" man on the street would get for the same thing. nothing more, nothing less.

 

[silverbear]

Look, I see the point you're trying to make, but think about this rationally for a second. If the Taylors defense team thought there was a good chance their client could be convicted they would advise Taylor to take the plea regardless of the repurcussions.

A couple of games suspension and his reputation would be a small price to pay for freedom.

There are so many problems with that theory, hermit:

1) His "freedom" was not at stake, because the plea bargain offered by the prosecution, while still a felony, would not have resulted in ANY jail time... so by turning it down, they put his freedom at risk...

2) The defense is clearly gambling on the higher level of difficulty involved in getting a conviction of a celebrity... OJ, Mark Chmura, Kobe, all these guys got off, in spite of the widely held belief that they were guilty...

3) If the defense was as confident they could get him off, as you're suggesting, why go down the sleazy road of sliming Grieco, to get him off the case??

Gleffully? Not sure how you got that idea but I agree that the tactics are questionable. On the other hand it's also clear that the prosecution wasn't exactly playing fair.

OK, that was a bit of hyperbole, meant to convey my disgust at their tactics... but at the same time, that bit of hyperbole does seem valid to me, they do seem curiously comfortable with going down that road...

Grieco claims that he didn't know about the criminal background of the witnesses but if he had done his due dilligence he would have found out rather quickly. How on earth do you not take into account the credibility of the alleged victims in a case where there is NO physical evidence whatsoever.

It does appear that Grieco was right incompetent, indeed rather stupid... which is why his removal from the case is hardly the "good news" for Taylor that the title of another thread in here suggested... seems to me it would have been in Sean's best interest to keep the incompetent prosecutor on the case... there is a rather high likelihood that his replacement will be better capable of trying this case, I think...

Remember, Sean Taylor never fired a gun, and the prosecutions case rests entirely on the statements made by the alleged victims.

You simply don't know that, and I rather doubt that it's the case... you see, if it WAS the case, the prosecutor should certainly be smart enough to know that they stand the proverbial chance of a snowball in Hades of securing a conviction... they'd also know that losing such a case would be extremely embarrassing to them, and damaging to their credibility for future prosecutions...

He may not have gotten any financial gain out of this particular case, but I'm sure the panties of his DJ groupies were dropping much faster with each mention of his name in various news articles.

You're probably right, but again, Grieco's motives for pursuing this case are totally irrelevant to the trial...