Q&A with Arizona CB Antoine Cason

[jterrell]

Late first, early second. With us and Green Bay picking at 28 and 30, I doubt very seriously he drops past the first.

Amazingly I completely agree.

 

[theogt]

where does all of this year's top CBs rank?

Some of them rank better, obviously. But you don't draft based solely on Combine numbers. You also look at college production and Cason is significantly better than all of the rest in that regard. Remember, I look at 3 categories: Combine numbers, college production, and mentality.

again you want to cherry pick to argue in favor of "your" guy.

Cherry picking? I'm just showing you his numbers as compared to other first rounders. Remember, it was you that said he isn't a first rounder because his athleticism (i.e., Combine numbers) isn't good enough.

talib would be higher, DRC off the charts, there will be other guys above Cason.

But again, those guys didn't have as good of college production as Cason. If you want to draft based solely on Combine numbers, go right ahead. But that seems a little silly to me.

but that is because you are using "your" metric. rofl.

It's an objective formula that was created before these guys even ran.

NFL corners have to be able to cover either fast, small guys, big, tall guys or both.

Jenkins has elite speed and can cover fast guys, regardless of rainman like metrics. His speed is far superior to Cason's he just didn't do as well in drills that can be taught and practiced. Again he is simply faster in both the 10 and 40 yard areas. So he accelerates faster and he has faster top end speed.

Cason is simply a better athlete. The numbers are there. And if Jenkins is so fantastic, why were his college numbers so bad in comparison to Cason?

Athleticism: Cason > Jenkins
College production: Cason > Jenkins

Yet, somehow you think in the NFL, Jenkins > Cason?

Was Deion drafted based on 3-cone drill times or the fact he ran a 4.2 at 200 pounds??

Deion's NFL coverage production metrics were off the charts. I very seriously doubt his college production weren't off the charts. So this is a moot conversation.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Amazingly I completely agree.

You see JT that's what amazes me...

I've said right along that Cason was a borderline 1st rounder.

You've said the same thing.

Which basically translates to the 4th to 6th best corner in the draft.

Theogt thinks Cason is the best corner available in this draft-- yet he has him going where?

The end of the first round.

:laugh2:

Amazing.

 

[Stash]

Honest question:

Since Cason is somehow being downgraded because of his level of competition, I would like to know who Jenkins, Cromartie, and McKelvin faced in their college careers?

 

[Hostile]

Other guys who weren't first round NFL draft picks, rofl.

I like Cason at 28 just not 22.

We are splitting hairs at this point.

I've stated I think he is a 2nd CB for 7 or 8 years, what are you predicting for him? Can he take the CB1 spot from TNew?

Ah good, I was wondering when we'd get to the hyperbole discussions.

As a rookie, no. Can he do the job as a starting NFL CB? Yes. Could he be CB1 over Henry? Absolutely. Over Champ Bailey? Not as a rookie, as I said earlier. Did I say he was the greatest CB ever? No. Did I compare him to Deion Sanders? No. Did I qualify him as a "shutdown CB?" No.

I don't see where I've gone overboard in my praise for him JT that would have you poised to correct and "splitting hairs."

I don't care whether he is a CB1 or a CB2. I would like to see him be a DC CB. Means a lot more to me than some kind of seeding.

IMO he's a perfect compliment to Newman. I'd rather have him at 22 than Pacman with a 7th round pick. Character and talent as a combination when measured against need do that for me.

Oh, and for the record, before it becomes a huge issue with you like most things do when you are disagreed with, I also like Cromartie, McKelvin, Talib, and Jenkins and have said repeatedly I'd love to have any one of them.

I just think Cason is the best option of the bunch. I plead guilty to that. I would take him at 22, but I don't think the Cowboys will. I hope he blows them away in his meeting with them today or tomorrow (I forget which day it is) and they do take him. If that happens I won't toot my own horn, but I might toot his. I won't care if it's at 22, 28, in a trade down to the top of the 2nd round, or all the way at 61. Just like when we got Witten in the 3rd I am all in favor of steals.

Anything else you want to ask me before you get uptight?

 

[dboyz]

I could live with Cason at 22. In fact I think it would be a good pick because:

1. He does not present much risk, because he's a solid guy mentally and performed quite well in a tough conference

2. Another good cover guy on our team would I think make a huge difference. I don't think any other position could improve our team as much as having another solid corner.

 

[theogt]

Honest question:

Since Cason is somehow being downgraded because of his level of competition, I would like to know who Jenkins, Cromartie, and McKelvin faced in their college careers?

Oh, don't you know, being from a small school is actually a good thing. It means these guys have more upside -- not that they performed worse against lesser competition.

 

[Hostile]

You see JT that's what amazes me...

I've said right along that Cason was a borderline 1st rounder.

You've said the same thing.

Which basically translates to the 4th to 6th best corner in the draft.

Theogt thinks Cason is the best corner available in this draft-- yet he has him going where?

The end of the first round.

:laugh2:

Amazing.

Blair Thomas was the best RB in the 1990 Draft right?

Chad Pennington the best QB in 2000?


If you say yes to both, you've made your point. If not it was a scud.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Honest question:

Since Cason is somehow being downgraded because of his level of competition, I would like to know who Jenkins, Cromartie, and McKelvin faced in their college careers?

See I don't see it that way Stash...

Cason get's universally high grades for his technique.

He's simply better technique wise than virtually all the other corners. There appears to be the question on if he can get much better than he is now. Consequently you have less of a bust factor with the guy but you don't have a high ceiling with him either.

Some of the other corners have better measurables and have gone to po-dung state where their coaching and level of competition wasn't very good. Consequently they have higher bust factors than Cason but their high-side is much higher.

 

[Hostile]

Honest question:

Since Cason is somehow being downgraded because of his level of competition, I would like to know who Jenkins, Cromartie, and McKelvin faced in their college careers?

I asked that question yesterday.

The silence was deafening.

I do know this though, it certainly wasn't the mediocre Pac 10 variety of WR.

 

[jterrell]

Honest question:

Since Cason is somehow being downgraded because of his level of competition, I would like to know who Jenkins, Cromartie, and McKelvin faced in their college careers?

He's not being downgraded for it.

We are merely saying he can't be called the best CB on the board because of it.

Demarcus Ware wasn't even a college OLB but he translated to that in the pros and has done so nicely. It is about what these guys will do in the NFL not what they have done.

I was a stud in high school in an inner city school district at the highest classification. In college I was just a scrub guy who could tackle on special teams. We had a running back named Andre Sessions that set all kinds of high school records as a running back out of El Paso. Andre was my boy but he had no impact on the college team and I could handle him easily in man situations for both coverage or tackling. Then Bam Morris who played at 3A Commerce would break 12 tackles every carry or Byron Hanspard would outrun everyone. It is about what you do where you are going not what you did in the past.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Blair Thomas was the best RB in the 1990 Draft right?

Chad Pennington the best QB in 2000?


If you say yes to both, you've made your point. If not it was a scud.

At the time of the draft...

Yes.

But the draft is not the "end" for the stories these kids will write for themselves.

Maybe you can start a conspiracy theory on why teams aren't valuing Cason higher?

I've got time...

 

[Stash]

See I don't see it that way Stash...

Cason get's universally high grades for his technique.

He's simply better technique wise than virtually all the other corners. There appears to be the question on if he can get much better than he is now. Consequently you have less of a bust factor with the guy but you don't have a high ceiling with him either.

Some of the other corners have better measurables and have gone to po-dung state where their coaching and level of competition wasn't very good. Consequently they have higher bust factors than Cason but their high-side is much higher.

Apparently, Jterrell does.

That's his current point.

I don't have a problem with his 'getting better'. I think he's good enough right now. And ask yourself, is it a guarantee that one of the other corners will get better?

Like you said, they have a higher bust factor as well.

I would prefer the known commodity, and an awesome character and team guy as well.

A bird in the hand.....

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I asked that question yesterday.

The silence was deafening.

I do know this though, it certainly wasn't the mediocre Pac 10 variety of WR.

I'll fix that-- I've got some Q-tips and hydrogen peroxide Hos...

 

[theogt]

He's not being downgraded for it.

We are merely saying he can't be called the best CB on the board because of it.

Right, because there are other corners that played better against better competition.

Such as........

 

[Stash]

He's not being downgraded for it.

Sure looks that way.

You criticize his 'level' but fail to give me the competition for the guys you like better. That's unfair isn't it?

We are merely saying he can't be called the best CB on the board because of it.

But he can somehow have it held against him?

Demarcus Ware wasn't even a college OLB but he translated to that in the pros and has done so nicely. It is about what these guys will do in the NFL not what they have done..

So it's pure speculation and nothing else?

Sorry, I'll take the guy who's done it over the one who might.....

You end up with Mike Mamula otherwise.

 

[Hostile]

At the time of the draft...

Yes.

But the draft is not the "end" for the stories these kids will write for themselves.

Maybe you can start a conspiracy theory on why teams aren't valuing Cason higher?

I've got time...

I don't need a conspiracy theory. I acknowledge some teams pay more attention to 40 yard dash times than other things. It's been happening for years. If Cason ran a 4.35 time in the 40 he'd be a top 5 pick most likely. Since he runs a 4.45 he's moved down a bit. That's the way it goes when teams gamble on explosiveness. I understand that and have never needed to sugar coat it.

 

[jterrell]

Ah good, I was wondering when we'd get to the hyperbole discussions.

As a rookie, no. Can he do the job as a starting NFL CB? Yes. Could he be CB1 over Henry? Absolutely. Over Champ Bailey? Not as a rookie, as I said earlier. Did I say he was the greatest CB ever? No. Did I compare him to Deion Sanders? No. Did I qualify him as a "shutdown CB?" No.

I don't see where I've gone overboard in my praise for him JT that would have you poised to correct and "splitting hairs."

I don't care whether he is a CB1 or a CB2. I would like to see him be a DC CB. Means a lot more to me than some kind of seeding.

IMO he's a perfect compliment to Newman. I'd rather have him at 22 than Pacman with a 7th round pick. Character and talent as a combination when measured against need do that for me.

Oh, and for the record, before it becomes a huge issue with you like most things do when you are disagreed with, I also like Cromartie, McKelvin, Talib, and Jenkins and have said repeatedly I'd love to have any one of them.

I just think Cason is the best option of the bunch. I plead guilty to that. I would take him at 22, but I don't think the Cowboys will. I hope he blows them away in his meeting with them today or tomorrow (I forget which day it is) and they do take him. If that happens I won't toot my own horn, but I might toot his. I won't care if it's at 22, 28, in a trade down to the top of the 2nd round, or all the way at 61. Just like when we got Witten in the 3rd I am all in favor of steals.

Anything else you want to ask me before you get uptight?

good lord.
Splitting hairs means we are "close" and arguing semantics.

I have stated the guy is a very possible selection at 28.

What you did above was a sleight of hand using Deion or Champ Bailey. It was an awesome non-answer with zero relevance.

I asked can Antoine Cason be CB1 HERE in Dallas with Terence Newman on the field or is he destined to CB2 duty for the foreseeable future if we draft him?

Call me crazy but that is the question I'd ask myself before I picked him at 22 were I Jerry Jones.

I guess I'd need to know how he would fit on the Dallas Cowboys not how he fit as an Arizona wildcat. He is listed as among the most NFL ready for sure so does he bump Henry day 1 or does he play nickel. If he plays nickel does he win any of the return jobs? He was a solid returner in college but I haven't seem it suggested by many scouts he would assume those duties in the NFL.

 

[Hostile]

I'll fix that-- I've got some Q-tips and hydrogen peroxide Hos...

The only fix would be answering the question.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Sure looks that way.

You criticize his 'level' but fail to give me the competition for the guys you like better. That's unfair isn't it?



But he can somehow have it held against him?



So it's pure speculation and nothing else?

Sorry, I'll take the guy who's done it over the one who might.....

You end up with Mike Mamula otherwise.

That's kind of unfair because these other corners weren't "lit-up". It's not like they didn't perform at all at the college level.

Plus Mamula was a Boston College grad... it's not his coaching was at the level of some of these small college corners that are sure to be drafted before Cason.