QB Stats Through Two Years

[G2]

Compare Romo and Kurt Warner career numbers. They are clearly better for one of them (hint: not the one in the Hall of Fame).

The HOF is not close to infallible.

Include post season statistics.

 

[Captain-Crash]

include daks post season stats.. oooh

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I agree. All players should be measured by their worst season. That makes total sense.

Or their most recent season, which does actually make sense.

 

[DogFace]

Or their most recent season, which does actually make sense.

I know, right?

Troy and Emmitt were average at best and I’m not sure how Joe Montana got in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Kevinicus]

13 Playoff games 9 wins took 2 different teams to SB and won one . Some important stats that Tony didn't have that factored into Kurt making it . Without these Kurt may have missed the cut .

Same ole pointless argument. Those stats are useless. They are not stats for the players. They are stats for the teams.

The truth is, Tony absolutely was a HOF caliber QB.

 

[HungryLion]

Same ole pointless argument. Those stats are useless. They are not stats for the players. They are stats for the teams.

The truth is, Tony absolutely was a HOF caliber QB.

It may not be fair. But everybody knows that post season success gets weighed in heavily when making determinations for the Hall.

You may not like that, but it’s the way it is. So it’s not a pointless argument. It’s the reality of the situation.

 

[Kevinicus]

It may not be fair. But everybody knows that post season success gets weighed in heavily when making determinations for the Hall.

You may not like that, but it’s the way it is. So it’s not a pointless argument. It’s the reality of the situation.

It is pointless when talking about the quality of the player.

I know that it is something that gets weighed (wrongly). That doesn't mean everyone and their mother has to keep falling back on it like it is some logical argument when discussing how good a player is.

What people should be doing is ignoring it, if not criticizing it for the nonsense that it is.

 

[HungryLion]

It is pointless when talking about the quality of the player.

I know that it is something that gets weighed (wrongly). That doesn't mean everyone and their mother has to keep falling back on it like it is some logical argument when discussing how good a player is.

What people should be doing is ignoring it, if not criticizing it for the nonsense that it is.

It’s not pointless when arguing about the quality of a player. Though. Maybe over valued, but not pointless. Ability to perform and perform well in the post season, and in championship level games is part of an evaluation of a player.

Some players play better in the post season. Some play worse.

I don’t know how Romo stacks up to warner statistically to be honest.

But I do know Warner had some amazing performances in the playoffs. And he deserves credit for doing so.

Again, I agree that post season success is over valued by most, but I don’t think it’s worthless at all.

 

[Kevinicus]

It’s not pointless when arguing about the quality of a player. Though. Maybe over valued, but not pointless. Ability to perform and perform well in the post season, and in championship level games is part of an evaluation of a player.

Some players play better in the post season. Some play worse.

I don’t know how Romo stacks up to warner statistically to be honest.

But I do know Warner had some amazing performances in the playoffs. And he deserves credit for doing so.

Again, I agree that post season success is over valued by most, but I don’t think it’s worthless at all.

We're talking about wins and losses - TEAM (100% of the time) accomplishments. Players can play outstanding and the team still loses, and vice versa. Good TEAMS are going to have more chances in the playoffs and more success in the playoffs. Good players can only hope they are on good teams.

Romo was excellent in 3 of his last 4 playoff games, especially the last 2, and the team still couldn't get by the divisional round. There were significant team failures in the other games as well. Individual players should never be judged by team success, especially when the "logic" used when applying that standard is as inconsistent as inconsistent gets.

 

[mcmvp]

No, it’s only misleading if I didn’t include anyone else’s rushing TDs. When you factor in the entirety of the QB position, he scores TDs more often than almost anyone at this point in their careers. If you want an honest idea of his passing ability, the only mostly honest stat is passer rating. Soley looking at passing TDs won’t give you an honest answer. If you go by that, then you’re essentially penalizing Dak for being so effective at rushing the ball.

Even passer rating can be misleading. Not every QB is facing the same types of defensive attacks. I wonder how high Rodgers, Brees, and Brady would rate if they were facing defenses that were stacking the box and daring them to beat them with their arms? On the flip side, I wonder where Dak’s passer rating would rank if D-Coordinators actually felt that he was was one they had to center their game plan on and not Zeke and the Cowboys running game.

It’s a lot easier to achieve a higher passer rating if defenses are playing a style that is favorable to the passing game.

I’m continually shocked at how few people take these common sense things into consideration. Instead they feel just looking at numbers tells the story. It doesn’t.

 

[HungryLion]

We're talking about wins and losses - TEAM (100% of the time) accomplishments. Players can play outstanding and the team still loses, and vice versa. Good TEAMS are going to have more chances in the playoffs and more success in the playoffs. Good players can only hope they are on good teams.

Romo was excellent in 3 of his last 4 playoff games, especially the last 2, and the team still couldn't get by the divisional round. There were significant team failures in the other games as well. Individual players should never be judged by team success, especially when the "logic" used when applying that standard is as inconsistent as inconsistent gets.

They didn’t mention just wins and losses. They mentioned playoff statistics.

Playing well in big games, whether the team wins or loses, isn’t meaningless to evaluating a player overall.

 

[Dylan88Wilson]

Even passer rating can be misleading. Not every QB is facing the same types of defensive attacks. I wonder how high Rodgers, Brees, and Brady would rate if they were facing defenses that were stacking the box and daring them to beat them with their arms? On the flip side, I wonder where Dak’s passer rating would rank if D-Coordinators actually felt that he was was one they had to center their game plan on and not Zeke and the Cowboys running game.

It’s a lot easier to achieve a higher passer rating if defenses are playing a style that is favorable to the passing game.

I’m continually shocked at how few people take these common sense things into consideration. Instead they feel just looking at numbers tells the story. It doesn’t.

The point was, passing TDs aren’t the accurate representation of passing talent that he portrayed it to be. The best tool we have is passer rating, specifically career passer rating when you adjust for era, but there are no perfect stats. Hell, Carson Wentz led the entire NFL in passer rating last season and we all know he isn’t one of the best throwers of the football. And your argument that defenses gameplan first for Zeke can easily be spun as an indictment of the weapons around him, not soley on Dak as you spun it.

 

[CCBoy]

7 years 210m$ the second the season ends? Or will Aaron Rodgers hike that price up?

Some points:

1. Gee, I wonder what 2 qbs sparked this comparison.

2. It’s not fair to Dak to put Staubach, Romo and Rodgers in there, they weren’t true rookies. Dak would have been even better had he had time to sit.

3. Can’t really compare anyone before 1990. The game has changed more than any other North American sport in that time. Putting Montana up there is no real comparison. Might as well used Otto Graham and Sid Luckman as well.

4. Next you should compare the run games those guys had. How many total rushing yards their teams had in those first 2 seasons and cross reference/penalize. Dan will probably come way out on top on that one, which is why I think he’s still the gold standard for first two years.

Fair...when at the professional ranks, it's big boy time.

Era still involves football, the common denominator. Good at any point, is still measured the same.

 

[BigDPlayer]

Total Yards
Aaron Rodgers - 8,995
Peyton Manning - 8,009
Dak Prescott - 7,630
Carson Wentz - 7,534
Tony Romo - 7,345
Dan Marino - 7,332
Tom Brady - 6,780
Drew Brees - 5,627
Joe Montana - 5,532
Roger Staubach - 4,903
Troy Aikman - 4,789

Total TDs
Dan Marino - 71
Aaron Rodgers - 67
Dak Prescott - 57
Tony Romo - 57
Peyton Manning - 54
Carson Wentz - 51
Tom Brady - 48
Roger Staubach - 43
Joe Montana - 38
Drew Brees - 29
Troy Aikman - 21

Completion %
Dak Prescott - 65.2%
Tony Romo - 64.8%
Aaron Rodgers - 64.2%
Joe Montana - 64.0%
Tom Brady - 62.8%
Dan Marino - 62.2%
Carson Wentz - 61.5%
Roger Staubach - 61.4%
Drew Brees - 59.5%
Peyton Manning - 59.3%
Troy Aikman - 55.1%

Yards / Attempt
Roger Staubach - 8.7
Dan Marino - 8.5
Tony Romo - 8.3
Aaron Rodgers - 7.9
Dak Prescott - 7.4
Peyton Manning - 7.1
Joe Montana - 7.0
Carson Wentz - 6.8
Tom Brady - 6.5
Troy Aikman - 6.3
Drew Brees - 6.1

Interceptions
Dak Prescott - 17
Roger Staubach - 19
Aaron Rodgers - 20
Joe Montana - 21
Carson Wentz - 21
Dan Marino - 23
Tom Brady - 26
Drew Brees - 31
Tony Romo - 32
Troy Aikman - 36
Peyton Manning - 43

Passer Rating
Dan Marino - 104.5
Roger Staubach - 98.9
Aaron Rodgers - 98.5
Tony Romo - 96.5
Dak Prescott - 95.5
Carson Wentz - 88.8
Joe Montana - 88.2
Tom Brady - 86.0
Peyton Manning - 80.6
Drew Brees - 73.1
Troy Aikman - 62.0

W/L Record
Dan Marino - 21-4 (84%)
Roger Staubach - 20-4 (83%)
Tony Romo - 19-7 (73%)
Dak Prescott - 22-10 (69%)
Tom Brady - 22-10 (69%)
Joe Montana - 15-8 (65%)
Carson Wentz - 18-11 (62%)
Aaron Rodgers - 17-15 (53%)
Peyton Manning - 16-16 (50%)
Drew Brees - 10-17 (37%)
Troy Aikman - 7-19 (27%)

*sips tea* Mornin’.

Wow! Just WOW! Boy did we luck out and hit the jackpot in that draft!!! BRING ON THE DYNASTY!!!!

 

[Kevinicus]

They didn’t mention just wins and losses. They mentioned playoff statistics.

Playing well in big games, whether the team wins or loses, isn’t meaningless to evaluating a player overall.

3 Playoff games 9 wins took 2 different teams to SB and won one . Some important stats that Tony didn't have that factored into Kurt making it . Without these Kurt may have missed the cut .

It was specifically about W/L. That is the stat mentioned.

 

[HungryLion]

It was specifically about W/L. That is the stat mentioned.

That post was.

But your initial claim was that Romo is as deserving of the HoF as Kurt Warner. Because of career stats.

My argument was that post season performance weighs heavily into whether somebody is Hall of fame worthy or not. And regardless of win/loss record in playoffs.

Kurt Warner’s postseason performance over his career is superior to Romo’s. In every way.

 

[plasticman]

You can't compare across eras without adjusting for the league averages of each era.

I did exactly that a few years ago. I took 10 season increments, determined the average passer rating, subtracted that rating from the current average and added that to each passer rating for QB's of that time.

For example, between 1970 and 1979 the average passer rating of the top 20 QB's (given a minimum of 1000 attempts) was 74.34.Keep in mind that this was before "in the grasp", "helmet to helmet", and other "excessive force" rules. In other words, the play wasn't over until after the D-lineman had slammed the QB to the ground.

Anyway, the current average of the top 20 QB's was 93.87. This is a difference of 19.53 which is added to the passer ratings of the top 20 in the 70's.

Comparing QB's of the 70's to the present, the top 20 looks like this:

1 Aaron Rodgers
2 Roger Staubach*
3 Tom Brady
4 Drew Brees
5 Bob Griese*
6 Bert Jones
7 Ken Stabler*
8 Peyton Manning
9 Fran Tarkenton*
10 Russell Wilson
11 Ken Anderson
12 Tony Romo
13 Greg Landry
14 Ben Roethlisberger
15 Matt Ryan
16 Len Dawson*
17 Philip Rivers
18 Billy Kilmer
19 John Brodie
20 Kirk Cousins

Dak didn't qualify, he has thrown slightly less than 1000 passes. If he qualified, then he would have placed 13th, just behind Romo. Again, this was only a comparison of the 70's to the current decade.

When you add the other decades, I believe Staubach was 3rd best behind only Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. Bart Starr was high up there from the 60's as was Joe Montana from the 80's. I'll have to redo this some day.

 

[plasticman]

That post was.

But your initial claim was that Romo is as deserving of the HoF as Kurt Warner. Because of career stats.

My argument was that post season performance weighs heavily into whether somebody is Hall of fame worthy or not. And regardless of win/loss record in playoffs.

Kurt Warner’s postseason performance over his career is superior to Romo’s. In every way.

There is no better example of this than our own Troy Aikman. Which was his best season? The postseason!

No other quarterback in history elevated his game in the playoffs like Troy. In fact, he improved at each playoff level. His rating for divisional games was 89.7. For conference championships (4), it was 100.3. For Super Bowls (3), it was 111.9. These are the games that history remembers. Without them, you have to be a generational player at your position.

 

[TNCowboy]

Amazing that Staubach is still so highly ranked. That was a very different passing era he played in.

He was one of the greatest players of all time, but rarely gets the recognition his career warrants.

 

[G2]

That post was.

But your initial claim was that Romo is as deserving of the HoF as Kurt Warner. Because of career stats.

My argument was that post season performance weighs heavily into whether somebody is Hall of fame worthy or not. And regardless of win/loss record in playoffs.

Kurt Warner’s postseason performance over his career is superior to Romo’s. In every way.

Ring of honor? Yes, Romo put up some numbers and has numerous team records. But he was never an elite QB. He had one season where he led the NFL. And you're right, in win or go home games he didn't get it done. And he had HOF players to throw to and Bryany in his prime.
No way he is HOF caliber. I think the fans who consider him their favorite Dallas QB or aren't old enough to see other QBs play say that.