News: Quarterback trap

[pansophy]

This is the guy making $28 million a year, and a guaranteed $84 million over three years:

and there was just an article out about how screwed there are because of it. How are you so sure we aren't making the same mistake?

 

[Stash]

So you are really good at shooting down everyone's comments but what is the leg you are standing on? Just pay him 30 million a year because he is the Franchise?

No, I'm just pointing out that those that are trying to undermine him are failures. Failures who have no substantial evidence to point to, and either avoid the numbers completely, or try (and fail) to make weak arguments.

When reasonable fans point out his numbers don't match the elite QB's, he doesn't have the accuracy, he does not pass the eye test.

There's the "nonsense" I speak of once again. Hiding in the grey of the "eye test", purely subjective and nothing more than a worthless opinion.

What "numbers don't match elite QB's"? Show your work.

Dak is a good QB but not a franchise guy.. That is the statement that I based this whole thread about.

One clearly based on nothing more than your own opinion. Unsupported by any facts. Therefore it carries no weight. That's the point.


[/quote]I am not besmirching his good name, or that he is a winning QB. He is not Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or even Luck, Rivers, Rothlisberger. Give him a 20X raise and offer him the Folses contract.
Mic Drop[/QUOTE]

More like "mic fumbled", as it has been from the start of this thread, one that you obviously didn't think through. All you've accomplished is to show how truly uninformed you are.

 

[xwalker]

I just found this article to be very interesting. The NFL is too much of a copy cat league, the team should also consider a contrarian viewpoint. Paying 30 million for an average QB is not something any team should be lining up to do. You have to make sure he is the real deal, who can win you the SB. Wilson, Brady, Brees, Rodgers have all taken very average WR's and made them stars. Dak has not and realistically does not have the accuracy or arm talent of those guys. I want to again point out, I am a big fan of Dak.
Please give me a Dak comp who has won a SB over the past 20 years? Eli , Brad Johnson, Dilfer? The long and short of my argument is that Dak is not a franchise QB, hence why pay 30 million a year for a guy who is not a franchise guy. I know this is a bit of a take, but you need to have a take every once in a while.

Teams can't just put their seasons on hold waiting years to find a Hall of Fame type talent at QB.

The Eagles won a SB with Nick Foles.

The Giants won 2 with Eli Manning.

Cousins might be better than either of those two QBs if he in in the right scheme.

 

[Jake]

To me the thought that Dak has earned the type of payday that is being thrown around (30+ mil per season) is crazy. He's won a single playoff game and now he should be paid on par or more than the best NFL QB's out there? Will he end up being great? Maybe. Will he end up an overpaid average at best QB? Maybe, but either way it's too early to tell and unfortunately for Dallas they will probably pay a kings ransom to find out.

It's a crazy NFL world these days. You have to make big decisions about QBs sooner than you'd probably like to do it because of free agency and - despite what some here seem to think - letting a guy walk to draft a first rounder is nothing close to a sure thing. History is littered with first round busts at that position.

Look at some of the QBs who have gotten paid in recent years: Stafford, Dalton, Cousins, Garropolo, Derek Carr. None of them have won a single playoff game.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Cousins is just a poor man's tony romo. Stat padder that doesn't actually help the team win games. Dak doesn't have the stats but plays a winning brand of football. Hence the leader in comebacks since he's been in the league and winning the division 2 out of 3 years.

 

[Stash]

and there was just an article out about how screwed there are because of it. How are you so sure we aren't making the same mistake?

I'm not "sure" of anything. And that's why I'm not saying "pay him whatever he wants" while also not saying "Dak sucks! get somebody else!"

This is a huge decision and a huge commitment and shouldn't be taken lightly by anyone. But there is no "easy decision" to be made as those not thinking it through would like to believe.

Sometimes, it takes more than a minute or two to make an informed decision, but I know that isn't popular in a world where many like to have to think as little as possible (and no that's not any shot at you or anyone in particular).

If someone is hesitant to pay Dak that kind of money, I understand. Just don't try to use "he sucks!" as your rationale behind it.

The fact is that the guy has outperformed his two draft contemporaries (taken 1 and 2 overall) over the three years he's been in this league. So if they should "get paid", he certainly should as well.

But the flip side is that contracts like this, with these numbers, undoubtedly put a huge strain on a team's salary cap.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is that there is no easy decision to be made either way.

 

[DogFace]

I would love to see Dak do that, but it wont happen.

You’ll love it. Pessimist like nothing more than being wrong.

Have you checked out any of his stats? He’s pretty good. And CLUTCH.

Broke Brady’s record for passes with no picks, has the 3rd highest winning percentage since he came into the league and second most game winning drives. Those aren't bad things.

Don’t get mislead by alternative facts.

And as @stasheroo requested please use some factS to back up your argument.

The eyeball test is unreliable at best and revealing of why he’s not liked at worse.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I'm not "sure" of anything. And that's why I'm not saying "pay him whatever he wants" while also not saying "Dak sucks! get somebody else!"

This is a huge decision and a huge commitment and shouldn't be taken lightly by anyone. But there is no "easy decision" to be made as those not thinking it through would like to believe.

Sometimes, it takes more than a minute or two to make an informed decision, but I know that isn't popular in a world where many like to have to think as little as possible (and no that's not any shot at you or anyone in particular).

If someone is hesitant to pay Dak that kind of money, I understand. Just don't try to use "he sucks!" as your rationale behind it.

The fact is that the guy has outperformed his two draft contemporaries (taken 1 and 2 overall) over the three years he's been in this league. So if they should "get paid", he certainly should as well.

But the flip side is that contracts like this, with these numbers, undoubtedly put a huge strain on a team's salary cap.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is that there is no easy decision to be made either way.

There is also no guarantee the player will perform after the contract aka Dez. Unfortunately we don't have a crystal ball to give us the right answer. But if he keeps trending in an upward direction he will be worth the $$

 

[glimmerman]

You know this contract is about the going rate for a starting QB in the NFL. Not that he or any other 3 year QB deserves 30 million a year. Or any NFL qb for that matter. Lots of money. Dak has done well for us. Cherry picking stats can go for pro Dak or anti Dak. He has a good winning record and plays well clutch. They have put a team around him. All goes hand in hand.

 

[DogFace]

The whole reason for this thread was for the Front office to really understand what they are getting into by signing Dak to a 30 million dollar contract. I wholeheartedly believe these large contracts are for Franchise QB's , not the 15th best QB in the league. Let some other team make that mistake.

So this was meant primarily for the front office?

My bad. I thought this was for me.

 

[dckid]

No, I'm just pointing out that those that are trying to undermine him are failures. Failures who have no substantial evidence to point to, and either avoid the numbers completely, or try (and fail) to make weak arguments.



There's the "nonsense" I speak of once again. Hiding in the grey of the "eye test", purely subjective and nothing more than a worthless opinion.

What "numbers don't match elite QB's"? Show your work.



One clearly based on nothing more than your own opinion. Unsupported by any facts. Therefore it carries no weight. That's the point.

I am not besmirching his good name, or that he is a winning QB. He is not Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or even Luck, Rivers, Rothlisberger. Give him a 20X raise and offer him the Folses contract.
Mic Drop[/QUOTE]

More like "mic fumbled", as it has been from the start of this thread, one that you obviously didn't think through. All you've accomplished is to show how truly uninformed you are.[/QUOTE]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Part of what each of us is saying is base on our opinion. BTW you have shown no numbers and I still don't know what you are arguing about other than shooting down everyone else's argument. Where do you stand on Dak? Please answer the question instead of playing dodgeball.

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th

Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th

 

[Jake]

So you are really good at shooting down everyone's comments but what is the leg you are standing on? Just pay him 30 million a year because he is the Franchise?
When reasonable fans point out his numbers don't match the elite QB's, he doesn't have the accuracy, he does not pass the eye test. Dak is a good QB but not a franchise guy.. That is the statement that I based this whole thread about.
I am not besmirching his good name, or that he is a winning QB. He is not Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or even Luck, Rivers, Rothlisberger. Give him a 20X raise and offer him the Folses contract.

I wish Dallas could just visit the QB Store and pick up one of those future HOF QBs that apparently grow on trees but life isn't that simple. Imagine if Jerry had pulled off the trade for Paxton Lynch? He was a first round pick - a sure thing, until he wasn't. That's a very plausible scenario if you're going to just keep letting QBs go until you land that next no doubt HOFer. Dallas lucked into Romo, then settled for Dak after chasing two bums earlier in that same draft. Those are the only "good" QBs Dallas has had since Aikman.

How many 5-11 seasons are you willing to endure while hoping Dumb & Dumber get lucky, again?

 

[morat1959]

You’ll love it. Pessimist like nothing more than being wrong.

Have you checked out any of his stats? He’s pretty good. And CLUTCH.

Broke Brady’s record for passes with no picks, has the 3rd highest winning percentage since he came into the league and second most game winning drives. Those aren't bad things.

Don’t get mislead by alternative facts. Real ones are better!!

Wow! Gone!

 

[Stash]

There is also no guarantee the player will perform after the contract aka Dez. Unfortunately we don't have a crystal ball to give us the right answer. But if he keeps trending in an upward direction he will be worth the $$

As I said, it depends on which risk you want to take. Both decisions undeniably involve some measure of risk.

But at the end of the day, you either pay Dak - who has outperformed both Goff and Wentz to this point - or you try to find another quarterback. And trust the same people who wanted to draft Paxton Lynch and Connor Cook, to do that for you.

Cast your votes folks!

 

[Jarv]

I can't really figure it out. I guess some people just really don't care for Dak. I for one like him, win or lose.

Win or lose????...lol

 

[dckid]

I'm not "sure" of anything. And that's why I'm not saying "pay him whatever he wants" while also not saying "Dak sucks! get somebody else!"

This is a huge decision and a huge commitment and shouldn't be taken lightly by anyone. But there is no "easy decision" to be made as those not thinking it through would like to believe.

Sometimes, it takes more than a minute or two to make an informed decision, but I know that isn't popular in a world where many like to have to think as little as possible (and no that's not any shot at you or anyone in particular).

If someone is hesitant to pay Dak that kind of money, I understand. Just don't try to use "he sucks!" as your rationale behind it.

The fact is that the guy has outperformed his two draft contemporaries (taken 1 and 2 overall) over the three years he's been in this league. So if they should "get paid", he certainly should as well.

But the flip side is that contracts like this, with these numbers, undoubtedly put a huge strain on a team's salary cap.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is that there is no easy decision to be made either way.

You know I never said Dak sucked, I said he was an average QB which my previous post shows.. "By the numbers"

I don't think Dak has totally outplayed Goff or Wentz. Wentz had an MVP type season in his second year before getting hurt. Goff has gone to a SB.
I have already stated that i believe Dak is a really good qb, he should make $22 million per year. The Nick Foles contract with an early out is not an insulting offer in my opinion.

 

[Stash]

I am not besmirching his good name, or that he is a winning QB. He is not Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or even Luck, Rivers, Rothlisberger. Give him a 20X raise and offer him the Folses contract.
Mic Drop

More like "mic fumbled", as it has been from the start of this thread, one that you obviously didn't think through. All you've accomplished is to show how truly uninformed you are.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Part of what each of us is saying is base on our opinion. BTW you have shown no numbers and I still don't know what you are arguing about other than shooting down everyone else's argument. Where do you stand on Dak? Please answer the question instead of playing dodgeball.

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th

These numbers appear to be invalid. Dak scored 32 touchdowns in 2018 which was tied for 10th. Where are you getting your "numbers" from?

Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th

So he averages 9th here? In the top 10 among quarterbacks? How can this be for the guy you said "throws at his receiver's feet"? Something isn't adding up?
I'll ask you two quick questions, with really easy answers:

How much does Aaron Rodgers - one of your franchise quarterbacks mentioned - make a year now?

How many touchdowns did Rodgers score in 2018 and how many did Dak score?

 

[dckid]

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Numbers don't lie.

Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th

Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th

 

[Hennessy_King]

As I said, it depends on which risk you want to take. Both decisions undeniably involve some measure of risk.

But at the end of the day, you either pay Dak - who has outperformed both Goff and Wentz to this point - or you try to find another quarterback. And trust the same people who wanted to draft Paxton Lynch and Connor Cook, to do that for you.

Cast your votes folks!

I mean I would rather at this point pay Dak even if he doesn't work out. That's the better option than us cutting him, being in QB purgatory, and possibly watch him ball with another team.

 

[Stash]

You know I never said Dak sucked, I said he was an average QB which my previous post shows.. "By the numbers"

I don't think Dak has totally outplayed Goff or Wentz. Wentz had an MVP type season in his second year before getting hurt. Goff has gone to a SB.
I have already stated that i believe Dak is a really good qb, he should make $22 million per year. The Nick Foles contract with an early out is not an insulting offer in my opinion.

https://www.pro-football-reference....toyear_3=2018&player_id3=PresDa01&idx=players

Here are the actual career numbers for all three thus far.

These facts carry far more validity and weight than some guy's opinion. "By the ACTUAL numbers".