Re-draft question Smith vs JJ Watt

[BAT]

You mean Kuechly, the guy who was the NFL Defensive Player of the Year last year?

Versus Watt who was the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2012, lead the league in sacks in 2012 (with 20.5), been All Pro every year he has been in the league, has the most pass blocks in last 3 years and a player that is almost universally lauded as the most feared defensive player in the league currently?

You are crazy! And this is coming from someone who pushed hard to draft Kuechley over Mo Claiborne.

 

[Moderately_Askew]

Versus Watt who was the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2012, lead the league in sacks in 2012 (with 20.5), been All Pro every year he has been in the league, has the most pass blocks in last 3 years and a player that is almost universally lauded as the most feared defensive player in the league currently?

You are crazy! And this is coming from someone who pushed hard to draft Kuechley over Mo Claiborne.

Watt didn't make the All Pro his rookie year, and both players made it their second year. See, that's the problem with this thread. It's all opinion and conjecture. You can throw any stat out there you want to claim one player is better than the other. It's just preference.

 

[BAT]

Watt didn't make the All Pro his rookie year, and both players made it their second year. See, that's the problem with this thread. It's all opinion and conjecture. You can throw any stat out there you want to claim one player is better than the other. It's just preference.

Watt was 2nd team All Pro his rookie season, 2011. FACT. Try again.

 

[Moderately_Askew]

Watt was 2nd team All Pro his rookie season, 2011. FACT. Try again.

Sure? Everything I looked up did not have him listed. But regardless that has nothing to do with my argument. Have anything about the rest of my argument?

 

[BAT]

Sure? Everything I looked up did not have him listed. But regardless that has nothing to do with my argument. Have anything about the rest of my argument?

Other than the part that most experts in the league consider him the best defensive player, all I stated was fact.

*2012 NFL Defensive Player of the Year
*3 x All Pro (2x first team, 1x 2nd team)
*2012 Sack Leader (20.5 - that's the most sacks from a 3-4 DE in the history of the NFL, yes, more than HOFer Bruce Smith had in his best season)
*Most Blocked Passes in last 3 years

Again, this is coming from a huge Kuechley fan.

 

[Moderately_Askew]

Other than the part that most experts in the league consider him the best defensive player, all I stated was fact.

*2012 NFL Defensive Player of the Year
*3 x All Pro (2x first team, 1x 2nd team)
*2012 Sack Leader (20.5 - that's the most sacks from a 3-4 DE in the history of the NFL, yes, more than HOFer Bruce Smith had in his best season)
*Most Blocked Passes in last 3 years

Again, this is coming from a huge Kuechley fan.

Except he wasn't a 2011 All Pro. That's all opinion from "experts", like I said.

 

[joseephuss]

How different would Dallas be with Watt? He would be good obviously, but what about the offense? They wouldn't have Smith at left tackle. They would need to find someone to fill that spot. Do they overpay via free agency? Do they draft someone else? Would it have a domino effect resulting in not drafting Frederick and/or Martin?

I like the path Dallas has taken. It is never just about one pick because every decision does tie into several more. Watt would be a great pick, but we have no idea what other choices and decisions would have resulted from having Watt on the team. He could have ended up a great player on a team going nowhere kind of like he is in Houston. Maybe Dallas would have gone on to fix the offensive line as well. I kind of doubt it. We already see that they have fixed their oline around Smith their anchor and are now lacking on defense. The opposite probably would have been true if Watt were on the team.

 

[BAT]

Except he wasn't a 2011 All Pro. That's all opinion from "experts", like I said.

The sad part is it is this ONE thing that you use to color my entire post as opinion only.

Here are some more facts you can discount:

Watt leads the NFL with 108 quarterback hits and 74 tackles for loss and ranks fifth in the NFL in sacks since entering the NFL in 2011.

 

[Moderately_Askew]

The sad part is it is this ONE thing that you use to color my entire post as opinion only.

Here are some more facts you can discount:

Watt leads the NFL with 108 quarterback hits and 74 tackles for loss and ranks fifth in the NFL in sacks since entering the NFL in 2011.

I never said Watt was not a good player, I just prefer Kuechly. Which is my opinion. Which this whole thread is about opinions, then you use facts to justify your opinion just like I could. Which is my argument. So this discussion is over because it is just going around in a circle.

 

[Vintage]

Smith, all day any day.

If a defensive linemen gets pushed around all game and slips through for 2 lucky sacks, it's considered a good game.

If an offensive linemen dominates nearly every snap in a game, but slips or makes just two mistakes all game giving up a sack or two or a TFL, it's considered a horrible game.

DL can take plays off. OL can't.

By that token, you would never take Watt over any OL?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

yea him

People forget Sean Lee was leading the National Football League in tackles and interceptions when he went down last year.

 

[Moderately_Askew]

People forget Sean Lee was leading the National Football League in tackles and interceptions when he went down last year.

I certainly did not forget, I love Sean Lee. I had that same argument with my friends who are Panthers fans that Lee was right up there with Kuechly. I just really like Kuechly also

 

[TheCoolFan]

Watt...no brainer. Dominant DLineman vs. a dominant LT, gimme the DL EVERY time. Just think of all the players on that defense Watt's presence would have made better - Ware, Spencer, DBs. We could have prime Orlando Pace/Jonathan Ogden at LT and there's still no guarantee of having a great OLine. Watt is looking like a Top-5 player in the NFL, regardless of position

 

[perrykemp]

How different would Dallas be with Watt? He would be good obviously, but what about the offense? They wouldn't have Smith at left tackle. They would need to find someone to fill that spot. Do they overpay via free agency? Do they draft someone else? Would it have a domino effect resulting in not drafting Frederick and/or Martin?

Who knows -- it's not like recent Superbowl winners have had or required a murders-row of All-Pro LTs:

2013 - Russell Okung (Seattle) - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2013 - Bryant McKinnie (Baltimore) - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2012 - Dave Diehl (NYG) - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2011 - Chad Clifton (Green Bay) - 0 Time All-Pro (two Pro-Bowls)
2010 - Jermon Bushrod (New Orleans) - 0 Time All-Pro (two Pro-Bowls)

None of these Superbowl winning LTs have ever been All-Pro and a number of them were just average.

What does it mean? Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, however, I do believe that the whole "Left Tackle is more important than position X,Y,Z" in getting your team to the Superbowl debate is a bit overblown.

 

[TheCoolFan]

Yup, both teams in the Super Bowl last year lost their starting LTs (both Okung and Clady considered two of the better ones in the NFL) and it didn't cripple their offenses

 

[joseephuss]

Who knows -- it's not like recent Superbowl winners have had or required a murders-row of All-Pro LTs:

2013 - Russell Okung - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2013 - Bryant McKinnie - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2012 - Dave Diehl - 0 Time All-Pro (one Pro-Bowl)
2011 - Chad Clifton - 0 Time All-Pro (two Pro-Bowls)
2010 - Jermon Bushrod - 0 Time All-Pro (two Pro-Bowls)

None of these Superbowl winning LTs have ever been All-Pro and a number of them were just average.

What does it mean? Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, however, I do believe that the whole "Left Tackle is more important than position X,Y,Z" debate is a bit overblown.

But as a whole those offensive lines were strong at other areas to overcome less than stellar left tackles. Not taking Smith could have changed the Cowboys approach in the following drafts. They have made an effort to address their offensive line. That may not have been the case if they don't take Smith.

 

[perrykemp]

But as a whole those offensive lines were strong at other areas to overcome less than stellar left tackles. Not taking Smith could have changed the Cowboys approach in the following drafts. They have made an effort to address their offensive line. That may not have been the case if they don't take Smith.

Who knows -- I can't disagree.

This whole thread is why internet forums exist -- to endlessly debate, ad nauseum, why two truly great players playing on opposite sides of the ball that have almost nothing to do one another are better or more important to the other.

 

[joseephuss]

Yup, both teams in the Super Bowl last year lost their starting LTs (both Okung and Clady considered two of the better ones in the NFL) and it didn't cripple their offenses

And a Superbowl winning team hasn't had the seasons sack leader since the 1999 Rams.

I don't think it is just about one player. It is about what they build along that player. Dallas is building a very good offensive line alongside Smith. They would have to build players along Watt as well because he can't do it all by himself as evidenced last year in Houston.

 

[lwehlers]

as much as our defense could use a great player like watts and he is the best defensive lineman in the nfl drafting a franchise left tackle is more difficult to do. right now the cowboys made the right decision in my opinion. if the draft happened today smith would be a top 3 pick. I remember when we drafted smith that some draft experts thought that the patriots solder would have been the top tackle then. after watching solder last night I sure am glad the cowboys took smith.

 

[joseephuss]

as much as our defense could use a great player like watts and he is the best defensive lineman in the nfl drafting a franchise left tackle is more difficult to do. right now the cowboys made the right decision in my opinion. if the draft happened today smith would be a top 3 pick. I remember when we drafted smith that some draft experts thought that the patriots solder would have been the top tackle then. after watching solder last night I sure am glad the cowboys took smith.

If they re-did the 2011 draft Dallas would not be able to get either Watt or Smith. They would both be gone before the Cowboys picked.