Re-evaluating Jimmy Johnson

[Reid1boys]

Even if Jimmy didn't want to be here, his drafting acumen-player acquisition-player management abilities along with his absolute hate of losing would have still garnered a few more championships.

Especially because HIS culture and chemistry was already there on the team.

Bah ahaha......... why didn’t he do jack squat in Miami ?

 

[tyke1doe]

Here's my challenge to you and anyone else dumb enough to believe Jimmy would have won it all in 94. Find one Jimmy Johnson quote stating he wish he would have returned in 94. JUST ONE!! The truth is that no such quote exists. Jimmy Johnson was finished and lost all desire to coach the Dallas Cowboys. With no desire to coach for the Dallas Cowboys, there's no chance in hell the Dallas Cowboys would have won that 3rd SB in a row with Jimmy Johnson. End of story.

Prove it.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Jimmy would bad mouth Jerry and undermine him constantly at Valley Ranch. He would try to degrade Jerry and emberass him

And now Jerry just embarrasses himself.

 

[tyke1doe]

Bah ahaha......... why didn’t he do jack squat in Miami ?

Actually, he did. He improved the defense, 62-7 notwithstanding.
But rumors was that Jimmy Johnson wanted to trade Dan Marino to get a boatload of draft picks like he did with Dallas. Jimmy wanted to establish HIS team just like he did in Dallas.
However, Dan Marino was Miami and Miami was Dan Marino. Marino not only didn't want to go anywhere else, he wanted the offense to go through him not through the running game. And ownership did also.
Jimmy finally found out that Miami wasn't like Dallas and Miami ownership wasn't like Jerry Jones, who gave him a virtual blank check.
And after three years, when Jimmy realized he couldn't implement his strategy to its fullest, and considering his short-attention span for coaching, he left Miami to do what he always wanted - to fish on his boat in the Florida Keys and talk football when he wanted and cash in on his legacy.

 

[TheCritic]

Prove it.

Prove it? Hmm....let me see...winner of Super Bowl 29....hmm...San Francisco 49ers. Yep that ought to do it. There's your proof.

 

[tyke1doe]

Prove it? Hmm....let me see...winner of Super Bowl 29....hmm...San Francisco 49ers. Yep that ought to do it. There's your proof.

Actually, you're ignoring your own statement and criterion. Here, let me remind you what you said.

there's no chance in hell the Dallas Cowboys would have won that 3rd SB in a row with Jimmy Johnson. End of story.

Jimmy wasn't with the Cowboys when Dallas played the Niners for the right to go to Super Bowl 29. So that can't be offered as proof because it doesn't fit the criterion YOU LAID OUT!

So once again, prove that if Jimmy Johnson had stayed with the Cowboys they wouldn't have won a third Super Bowl in a row.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Actually, he did. He improved the defense, 62-7 notwithstanding.
But rumors was that Jimmy Johnson wanted to trade Dan Marino to get a boatload of draft picks like he did with Dallas. Jimmy wanted to establish HIS team just like he did in Dallas.
However, Dan Marino was Miami and Miami was Dan Marino. Marino not only didn't want to go anywhere else, he wanted the offense to go through him not through the running game. And ownership did also.
Jimmy finally found out that Miami wasn't like Dallas and Miami ownership wasn't like Jerry Jones, who gave him a virtual blank check.
And after three years, when Jimmy realized he couldn't implement his strategy to its fullest, and considering his short-attention span for coaching, he left Miami to do what he always wanted - to fish on his boat in the Florida Keys and talk football when he wanted and cash in on his legacy.

Pretty popular opinion on the offense, but I don't think it's true. Jimmy admitted several years back that he had a chance to trade up and get Peyton Manning and decided to stay with Marino.

Jimmy ran the heck out of Karim Abdul Jabbar, but dude was no Emmitt, barely even averaging above 3 yards/carry in his first seasons. If Jimmy had found another #22, you can bet that would have been a run first offense. Marino was out of youth, and needed a Terrell Davis badly just like his peer Jon Elway.

And don't agree with those saying Jimmy didn't do jack in Miami either. Built a defense that was #1 in the NFL, and carried Wannstedt's jock a few seasons. 2 HOFers drafted on that defense once Zach Thomas gets in. He just couldn't draft enough talent on offense and Marino fell apart quickly.

Made Playoffs 3 of 4 seasons in Miami, and 2 of those he won a game in the Tourney. Only Coach I can think of who followed two legends in the NFL, talk about a target on your back. And oh yeah, he won a college championship. How many famous college coaches have we seen fall on their face in the NFL?

Jimmy is one of the best coaches in NFL history, and anyone trying to use Miami as proof he wasn't just needs to look in the record books and find out how many NFL Coaches have won the Super Bowl with 2 different franchises.

Even the great Vince Lombardi, who the Super Bowl trophy is freaking named after, couldn't do it again. Sometimes you're blessed with luck and talent. Milk it for all it's worth because you never know when the opportunity will come again.

 

[tyke1doe]

Pretty popular opinion on the offense, but I don't think it's true. Jimmy admitted several years back that he had a chance to trade up and get Peyton Manning and decided to stay with Marino.

Jimmy ran the heck out of Karim Abdul Jabbar, but dude was no Emmitt, barely even averaging above 3 yards/carry in his first seasons. If Jimmy had found another #22, you can bet that would have been a run first offense. Marino was out of youth, and needed a Terrell Davis badly just like his peer Jon Elway.

And don't agree with those saying Jimmy didn't do jack in Miami either. Built a defense that was #1 in the NFL, and carried Wannstedt's jock a few seasons. 2 HOFers drafted on that defense once Zach Thomas gets in. He just couldn't draft enough talent on offense and Marino fell apart quickly.

Made Playoffs 3 of 4 seasons in Miami, and 2 of those he won a game in the Tourney. Only Coach I can think of who followed two legends in the NFL, talk about a target on your back. And oh yeah, he won a college championship. How many famous college coaches have we seen fall on their face in the NFL?

Jimmy is one of the best coaches in NFL history, and anyone trying to use Miami as proof he wasn't just needs to look in the record books and find out how many NFL Coaches have won the Super Bowl with 2 different franchises.

Even the great Vince Lombardi, who the Super Bowl trophy is freaking named after, couldn't do it again. Sometimes you're blessed with luck and talent. Milk it for all it's worth because you never know when the opportunity will come again.

Yeah, I remember Jimmy saying he tried to trade for Peyton Manning, although I doubt very seriously he would have gotten him, even had he given up his entire draft. Manning was considered a generational quarterback, and the Dolphins picked #29. There aren't many teams willing to accept a Ditka trade when they have to give up the right to draft an elite quarterback.

Second, Jimmy was practically on his way out the door. He'd coach one more year than it was bye-bye, the Florida Keys await. Jimmy had a short career everywhere he went. I think he got burned out or at least gave himself a window of time to do all he could in coaching. I don't think he wanted to be in a Dallas situation in Miami, i.e., staying there just to build a powerhouse. I think he gave Miami as much as he could then it was bon voyage.

Anyway, this is my speculation. I agree with you on the rest. I am in no way knocking Johnson. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and was a terrific coach.
I just think he knew he wasn't in it for the long haul and got out on his timing.

 

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

The post in this thread are very illustrative of the point. Some say Jimmy did it all , Jerry just rubber stamped things and took credit. Jerry was too head strong and thought that anyone could do what Jimmy did. When the truth is Jerry and Jimmy needed each other. If we are ever to win another championship it won't be because of the coach, the talent or the owner, it will be because we'll have once again caught lightning in a bottle and have all three.
Jerry or Stephen is gonna be here, Mike get the talent to play up to their potential or surpass it and watch , you'll have that to worry about . Just like Jimmy. Is it Mike or Jerry or is it the talent now that's an argument I'll have all day

 

[TheCritic]

Actually, you're ignoring your own statement and criterion. Here, let me remind you what you said.



Jimmy wasn't with the Cowboys when Dallas played the Niners for the right to go to Super Bowl 29. So that can't be offered as proof because it doesn't fit the criterion YOU LAID OUT!

So once again, prove that if Jimmy Johnson had stayed with the Cowboys they wouldn't have won a third Super Bowl in a row.

No need for me to prove something that never happened. The burden of proof is on you. So stop procrastinating and get to work or surrender and get off this thread.

 

[tyke1doe]

No need for me to prove something that never happened. The burden of proof is on you. So stop procrastinating and get to work or surrender and get off this thread.

You don't know what you're talking about.
First, you developed the scenario, the hypothetical. You started the thread.
Second, I never said I could prove Johnson would have won four straight. I can't. But I can't be wrong either because the scenario can't be proven or disproven.
That's why it's called a hypothetical, silly.

 

[terra]

True. But if Jimmy had stayed he would have been there for the 94, 95 and 96 drafts (theoretically). Assuming that’s the case, I really feel that those drafts are better with him and as such Dallas wouldn’t have experienced such a precipitous drop in talent by 96. Again, huge assumptions.

Jimmy really was not that great a drafter; remember he was not very good at Miami and he was there for the draft in 96 and did not do very well; did not do very well the rest of the time in Miami.
Bottom line is that when he started he had lots of picks due to the sodomizing of the Vikings and that was why we got so much talent; that and luck
REMEMBER picking Emmitt was pure luck; he was not a priority target for Jimmy

 

[buybuydandavis]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

The team doesn't does spot SF 3 tds with Jimmy coaching, and he doesn't get a personal foul penalty.

Jimmy was a great motivator. If Jimmy recognized his act was getting old, he could have adjusted. NFC Championship after he left, then SB after that. Jimmy was better than 501. Not blowing the NFC Championship could have been accomplished by a lot of coaches.

 

[Pass2Run]

I prefer living in the present, or the future, but that's just me.

 

[JonesBoys]

The drafting got worse because Jerry Jones installed his stooges in the scouting department. People like John Wooten and Bob Ackles were out, replaced by Lacewell and even Garrett’s father got more influence.

That wouldn’t have happened with Jimmy still there is my point.

 

[cowboyed]

Then what's their beef with each other? Or at least Jerry's beef, Jimmy has seemed to move on

I think it is disappointment, maybe a little bit of sting to Jerry that Jimmy thought there was more to football and his personal agenda than becoming a career long coach with the Cowboys. It is not like Jimmy stuck around the Dolphins forever either. He was tired of being a head coach. I don't fault him for that. I appreciate what he and Jerry where able to do together that led to us winning Super Bowls in the in 90s.

 

[cowboyed]

Fan and even reporter opinions aren't necessarily factual opinions. No one denies that Jimmy Johnson did some good for the Dolphins. However he was not only head coach for the Dolphins but also the general manager! He did not build a Super Bowl caliber Dolphin team over his 4 year tenure. And if he was he was close as some believe to winning a Super Bowl with the Dolphines than why quit?

Perhaps he realized winning the Super Bowl wasn't as easy as it used to be as in the pre-salary cap and no free agency era. His personal life mattered to him much more than a long coaching career and he made enought money to cherry pick what he wanted to do. He reminds me of Parcells. Jimmy beat to his own drum and more power to him.

 

[terra]

Fan and even reporter opinions aren't necessarily factual opinions. No one denies that Jimmy Johnson did some good for the Dolphins. However he was not only head coach for the Dolphins but also the general manager! He did not build a Super Bowl caliber Dolphin team over his 4 year tenure. And if he was he was close as some believe to winning a Super Bowl with the Dolphines than why quit?

Perhaps he realized winning the Super Bowl wasn't as easy as it used to be as in the pre-salary cap and no free agency era. His personal life mattered to him much more than a long coaching career and he made enought money to cherry pick what he wanted to do. He reminds me of Parcells. Jimmy beat to his own drum and more power to him.

I think you are correct that he was a lot like BP in that way. BP liked challenges early on in his career but as he got older he basically did not have the energy or the want to. Which is not surprising.
Jimmy quit coaching at a fairly young age; I think you are also right in that he felt like living his life as he wanted and coaching was no longer that important to him,

 

[VaqueroTD]

Fan and even reporter opinions aren't necessarily factual opinions. No one denies that Jimmy Johnson did some good for the Dolphins. However he was not only head coach for the Dolphins but also the general manager! He did not build a Super Bowl caliber Dolphin team over his 4 year tenure. And if he was he was close as some believe to winning a Super Bowl with the Dolphines than why quit?

Perhaps he realized winning the Super Bowl wasn't as easy as it used to be as in the pre-salary cap and no free agency era. His personal life mattered to him much more than a long coaching career and he made enought money to cherry pick what he wanted to do. He reminds me of Parcells. Jimmy beat to his own drum and more power to him.

You don't have to be a football coach to figure this one out. Anyone who has given 24/7 to a career and rebuilt businesses knows how much time and energy it takes out of you. It's soul draining. Look no further than Bill Parcells, Dick Vermeil, and several other great coaches who had to quit or move on from burnout. More power to the Landrys and Belichicks who could revitalize themselves for 2 decades, but most people need a change or breather.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

I think the other angle is that FA and the salary cap were starting to take hold in the NFL, and Jimmy benefitted greatly from the Herschel trade.