RECAP: (Carl Banks on TO) Yes Another TO Thread

[adbutcher]

Mods: can we sticky this nickname from adbutcher's original post, and then change the forum posting guidelines so that people need to always refer to Andy Reid this way in the future? Thanks.

I think it is more endearing than Fat Ba......, lol.

 

[slick325]

Perhaps and while some try to paint it as poor little TO... They fail to realize that he had signed a legally binding document and no one put a gun to his head to do it...

In fact he was advised against signing it but did it anyway...

But shhhhh don't tell them that it will mess up their rant...

Oh and also don't tell them he started causing problems WAY before he ever signed with the eagles

I for one am not at all going to paint the Eagles situation as "poor little" T.O. He did indeed sign a legally binding document, against the advice of counsel, and no one "put a gun to his head to do it". However, the orignal post reflected Carl Banks belief that the Eagles promised to redo the deal and T.O. got miffed when they didn't do so. This may very well be true. I have been privy to many legally binding contracts in my legal career and in a great deal of the negoiations, there are oral committments made that never make it on paper but ARE actually satisfied by the promising party. I in no way am saying that the Eagles did verbally say they would redo the deal but I cannot say they did not either.

You are correct that T.O. has been a "problem child" prior to the Eagles. He grandstands, pouts and whines but every relationship be it personal or professional is two sided. When both parties work to make each other happy things generally work out. T.O. was not an issue in the San Fran locker room when Steve Young and Jerry Rice were still there. Probably because the level of mutual respect was there. Steve Young has stated this several times on Countdown. T.O. was no issue in year one in Philly for the same reason. Without firsthand knowledge of what took place behind the scenes, I cannot say who is right or wrong in T.O.'s San Fran or Philly experiences. None of us can. I can say that I do not agree with him lashing out publicly at teammates or coaches. That should be left in the locker room or weightroom. The front office however is fair game in my book.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I think it is more endearing than Fat Ba......, lol.

:laugh2:

I think someone has already dubbed our very own Parcells that, tho. They just add from New York behind it...

 

[adbutcher]

I for one am not at all going to paint the Eagles situation as "poor little" T.O. He did indeed sign a legally binding document, against the advice of counsel, and no one "put a gun to his head to do it". However, the orignal post reflected Carl Banks belief that the Eagles promised to redo the deal and T.O. got miffed when they didn't do so. This may very well be true. I have been privy to many legally binding contracts in my legal career and in a great deal of the negoiations, there are oral committments made that never make it on paper but ARE actually satisfied by the promising party. I in no way am saying that the Eagles did verbally say they would redo the deal but I cannot say they did not either.

You are correct that T.O. has been a "problem child" prior to the Eagles. He grandstands, pouts and whines but every relationship be it personal or professional is two sided. When both parties work to make each other happy things generally work out. T.O. was not an issue in the San Fran locker room when Steve Young and Jerry Rice were still there. Probably because the level of mutual respect was there. Steve Young has stated this several times on Countdown. T.O. was no issue in year one in Philly for the same reason. Without firsthand knowledge of what took place behind the scenes, I cannot say who is right or wrong in T.O.'s San Fran or Philly experiences. None of us can. I can say that I do not agree with him lashing out publicly at teammates or coaches. That should be left in the locker room or weightroom. The front office however is fair game in my book.

Here here!

 

[adbutcher]

:laugh2:

I think someone has already dubbed our very own Parcells that, tho. They just add from New York behind it...

I thought the Tuna was trying to get down to pimp size.

 

[Awakened]

I've never liked T.O., and haven't wanted us to sign him. To me, he represents what is wrong with professional sports. However, two things have kinda stuck with me:

1) It always surprised me that most of T.O.'s teammates seemed OK with him - they seemed to like him and want him on the team. Their opinion of him never seemed to coincide with general media or public opinion.
2) I've always thought well of McNabb as a person/player. I'll never forget that game a couple of years ago where he made our defense look so silly. He seems like a solid citizen, good man, etc. But there is something about him that leaves me uninspired. I can't quite nail it down, but he doesn't seem like a guy I would want to follow into battle.

 

[adbutcher]

I've never liked T.O., and haven't wanted us to sign him. To me, he represents what is wrong with professional sports. However, two things have kinda stuck with me:

1) It always surprised me that most of T.O.'s teammates seemed OK with him - they seemed to like him and want him on the team. Their opinion of him never seemed to coincide with general media or public opinion.
2) I've always thought well of McNabb as a person/player. I'll never forget that game a couple of years ago where he made our defense look so silly. He seems like a solid citizen, good man, etc. But there is something about him that leaves me uninspired. I can't quite nail it down, but he doesn't seem like a guy I would want to follow into battle.

Absolutely my point.

As far as McFlabb, he is a phenomenal QB, one of the best in the game but he is a company man. However, I look at him the same way I look at Favre minus the superbowl ring. No player should be meddling in Front Office affairs. Shut your piehole about your teammate's contract because it can only lead to resentment, see Jarvon Walker.

 

[chinch]

The whole situation seemed like Mcflabb was being the company man and that vibe don't go over well with me.

If I were a betting man, it probably didn't go over well in the locker room either. Imagine being a vet in the last year of your contract, you pretty much know you are going to get cut. Then you have Companyman McFly singing the praises of the iggles with his 100 mil deal. I betcha more then a few were quietly empathizing with TO, but not at the expense of winning.

BINGO

 

[Zaxor]

I for one am not at all going to paint the Eagles situation as "poor little" T.O. He did indeed sign a legally binding document, against the advice of counsel, and no one "put a gun to his head to do it". However, the orignal post reflected Carl Banks belief that the Eagles promised to redo the deal and T.O. got miffed when they didn't do so. This may very well be true. I have been privy to many legally binding contracts in my legal career and in a great deal of the negoiations, there are oral committments made that never make it on paper but ARE actually satisfied by the promising party. I in no way am saying that the Eagles did verbally say they would redo the deal but I cannot say they did not either.

You are correct that T.O. has been a "problem child" prior to the Eagles. He grandstands, pouts and whines but every relationship be it personal or professional is two sided. When both parties work to make each other happy things generally work out. T.O. was not an issue in the San Fran locker room when Steve Young and Jerry Rice were still there. Probably because the level of mutual respect was there. Steve Young has stated this several times on Countdown. T.O. was no issue in year one in Philly for the same reason. Without firsthand knowledge of what took place behind the scenes, I cannot say who is right or wrong in T.O.'s San Fran or Philly experiences. None of us can. I can say that I do not agree with him lashing out publicly at teammates or coaches. That should be left in the locker room or weightroom. The front office however is fair game in my book.

Makes perfect sense to me friend... and while we have no definitive proof either way I have heard of it first in this thread that the Eagles would renegotiate the contract...this was never said by TO or his agent.. to the best of my knowledge... and if so is pure speculation soley intended for TO's benefit...

What we do know... is... there are teammates that do not want the guy back see guy in SF (LB I believe) there are those that do...we have coaches who say they wouldn't take him for all the tea in china (ditka..etc) and those that think it may not be all that bad (bill?) The guy has talent that is for sure but just as sure is his likely hood for distraction/turbulance...

This is where it come down for the Cowboys to decide if that talent is worth the trouble...Zaxor the GM says no

For the fans it comes down to this


for some winning isn't enough it is the way in which you win that was as important if not more

For others it is strictly about the trophy

see in the days of yesteryear ... where one coal mining town takes on another coal mining town...our sons are better than yours...Where two teams meet in some pasteur and though they may not have been right for Saint Peter Paul and Mary's church they were our boys and they suffered and bleed and we suffered and bleed with them....win or lose we were proud of our boys they never quite on us...we were family... and no one talked bad about our family those where fighting words and if we had words amongst ourselves well they were kept amongst ourselves... and the game played on through the years and we painted a Star on that field in rememberance of what was and we used that Star as a badge of honor and told our children of the brave and bold who honored that Star and we were proud

now enter the shiny new thing where everyday is fantasy football and everybody ****** with everybody else...where it is no longer about the game but the dollars it brings...and out jumps the ugliest ***** of all and stomps upon that Star...the Star of honor, the star of rememberance... Sons, Fathers and Grandfathers alike clenched there fists in anger and gnashed their teeth in outrage and shame...daughters, mothers and grandmothers wept, they wept for the loss of honor, they wept for the defilement of memory and their weeping could not be consold... then among the weeping and gnashing of teeth came satan and laughed and brought forth the beast dressed in the Cowboys uniform...and said behold ....

is this what you want?

 

[Taz]

do you think if we say TO is gay that there will be a back lash from fundamentalist christans in texas and we will nto sign to because he is gay?

 

[Awakened]

Absolutely my point.

As far as McFlabb, he is a phenomenal QB, one of the best in the game but he is a company man. However, I look at him the same way I look at Favre minus the superbowl ring. No player should be meddling in Front Office affairs. Shut your piehole about your teammate's contract because it can only lead to resentment, see Jarvon Walker.

I don't know about comparing McNabb to Favre. Favre is the classic leader - a tough guy who inspires those around him. He seems easy to follow into battle. Like I say, I don't know what it is about McNabb. Its like there is something silly about him - like it is hard to take him serious.

 

[Taz]

the problem i have with farve is he makes to many turnovers by trying to throw crazy passes that shouldn;t be thrown.

 

[slick325]

Absolutely my point.

As far as McFlabb, he is a phenomenal QB, one of the best in the game but he is a company man. However, I look at him the same way I look at Favre minus the superbowl ring. No player should be meddling in Front Office affairs. Shut your piehole about your teammate's contract because it can only lead to resentment, see Jarvon Walker.

I have always felt that employees (read players for this particular subject) should always support each other when it comes to money issues with the employer (read front office). The reason is simple, that can be "you" one day. So in T.O.'s case and Javon Walker's case if anything McNabb and Favre should have said "No comment. That's his personal financial business and I'm not in a position to tell another person what he/she should do regarding their financial future. But, he is a really good player and we need him to be successful." That is basically what Troy Aikman said when Emmitt held out. You do not want to cross the front office as a QB or face of the team but you NEVER cross a teammate either because that could be you one day. And in football that is a fact more times than not. Ask Troy, Emmitt, Glover, Key, LA etc...

 

[ddh33]

You mean that fans might only get part of the story and jump to conclusions - opinions they will never change?

In other news, I really like Carl Banks. I wouldn't mind having him in Dallas.

Also, how many times do we hear these positive blurbs about Parcells and the way he deals with his players?

 

[Alexander]

I don't know about comparing McNabb to Favre. Favre is the classic leader - a tough guy who inspires those around him. He seems easy to follow into battle. Like I say, I don't know what it is about McNabb. Its like there is something silly about him - like it is hard to take him serious.

Why do you think Michael Irvin baited Owens that way? Another theory is that they meant to do that. This is an intriguing drama and it is so much deeper than Owens' lack of maturity.

 

[Alexander]

Also, how many times do we hear these positive blurbs about Parcells and the way he deals with his players?

And how many times do you hear about the "Bad Parcells" that the media sometimes portrays: the gruff yeller who would as soon rip your head off as speak to you?

Just goes to show you we fans pay too much attention to what we are told by the media these personas are rather than trying to think outside the box.

That's why some people were very shocked when Emmitt Smith made the diamonds comment. It seemed so out of character to the wholesome humble Emmitt we all thought we had.

 

[DallasInDC]

This First of all, Carl seems like a guy that should be coaching somewhere. IMO, he clearly knows football and didn’t come across as a talking head like many other former athletes.

I agree, When BP was roundingout his coaching staff, I was thinking he should have brought Banks in to the fold.

 

[Alexander]

I've always thought well of McNabb as a person/player. I'll never forget that game a couple of years ago where he made our defense look so silly. He seems like a solid citizen, good man, etc. But there is something about him that leaves me uninspired. I can't quite nail it down, but he doesn't seem like a guy I would want to follow into battle.

The McNabb you think you know is a character.

Why do you think he plays the victim role so well? Why do believe that members of the African American community feel he is a sell-out to corporate America?

What you had in Philadelphia was probably a tug of war between the two. McNabb has always had the blind support of management. Owens probably resented that. And when McNabb choked in the Super Bowl and Owens had the nerve to call that out and try to get a new contract, the game was on and the smear campaign started.

Has everyone forgot the allegations that Eagles management sent their stooge Hugh Douglas into the lockerroom to pick a fight? That's unheard of. Funny now that Owens is gone, they don't need a "lockerroom" ambassador and even Douglas has come out and called out McNabb publicly.

Take these comments from Douglas:

"The thing that Donovan needs - it's been proven, especially this year - he needs other people to lead. He's not a leader. He doesn't want to lead. He is the leader on the field as a quarterback; he isn't a team leader. He needs a good supporting cast."

"In order to be a leader, you have to be in people's face; if that is what you think, he isn't that guy. Donovan will lead on the football field, and if you need him to give a Vince Lombardi speech, he won't."

"At some point, [Reid] is going to have to go in that locker room and make it like Beirut again, to be totally honest. It's obvious right now that the guys who he thinks are leaders aren't his leaders, and the young guys aren't ready to lead."

There was more to the Philadelphia situation that meets the eye. You would have to be in denial to say there was nothing but the demon Owens.

 

[Charles]

If you have followed this story since it's inception, this is exactly how it happened.

It is just over time, it has become more about the Owens persona than any of the roles the other parties played. Most of the media is notoriously slack, and wouldn't bother to try to put any other spin on this than what was the easier.

This type of perception takes research and thought. It is much easier to churn out garbage that simply continues the demon persona.

 

[wileedog]

The McNabb you think you know is a character.

Why do you think he plays the victim role so well? Why do believe that members of the African American community feel he is a sell-out to corporate America?

What you had in Philadelphia was probably a tug of war between the two. McNabb has always had the blind support of management. Owens probably resented that. And when McNabb choked in the Super Bowl and Owens had the nerve to call that out and try to get a new contract, the game was on and the smear campaign started.

Has everyone forgot the allegations that Eagles management sent their stooge Hugh Douglas into the lockerroom to pick a fight? That's unheard of. Funny now that Owens is gone, they don't need a "lockerroom" ambassador and even Douglas has come out and called out McNabb publicly.

Take these comments from Douglas:

"The thing that Donovan needs - it's been proven, especially this year - he needs other people to lead. He's not a leader. He doesn't want to lead. He is the leader on the field as a quarterback; he isn't a team leader. He needs a good supporting cast."

"In order to be a leader, you have to be in people's face; if that is what you think, he isn't that guy. Donovan will lead on the football field, and if you need him to give a Vince Lombardi speech, he won't."

"At some point, [Reid] is going to have to go in that locker room and make it like Beirut again, to be totally honest. It's obvious right now that the guys who he thinks are leaders aren't his leaders, and the young guys aren't ready to lead."

There was more to the Philadelphia situation that meets the eye. You would have to be in denial to say there was nothing but the demon Owens.

Great post.

The lasting image of McNabb and TO I have is TO jawing all over him on the sidelines and McNabb just trying to walk away, not saying a word, with a sad little puss on his face.

What QB who is supposed to be a team leader is going to take that crap? Heck, even Bledsoe stood up to Keyshawn in the same situation.

And don't think a lot of guys on the team didn't notice that either.

Then McNabb looked even worse IMO when he finally did decide to do something - take it to the media and basically say "Leave me alone. Wah."

Again, I'm certainly not going to try to defend the way TO reacted to his circumstances or his conduct in Philly, but it wasn't some great situation that TO single-handedly "destroyed."