RECAP: Norm Hitzges on our Roy Williams...

[AdamJT13]

Which means they don't move Henry to FS because of Henry not Roy Williams.

Did Stewart say that? All he basically said was that Henry is a good cornerback and would stay there. If anyone on the coaching staff thought Roy really needed to be replaced as a starting safety, don't you think we might have already added at least ONE decent safety to the roster this offseason?

You seem to be trying to read into what Stewart DIDN'T say more than what he did say. And you only read into what he didn't say they way you want him to not say what he didn't say.

 

[Rampage]

What difference does that make? They knew that splitting the tight end wide would take Roy with him.

When teams rush the passer against us, are they trying to sack Romo or are they trying to sack the quarterback? When teams cover Owens, are they trying to cover him or are they trying to cover the X receiver?

Does it even matter?

do you think you're gonna accomplish anything with this Roy trip you're on or do you just like to argue/debate/discuss Roy Williams?

 

[khiladi]

What difference does that make? They knew that splitting the tight end wide would take Roy with him.

When teams rush the passer against us, are they trying to sack Romo or are they trying to sack the quarterback? When teams cover Owens, are they trying to cover him or are they trying to cover the X receiver?

Does it even matter?

I think it does matter in the context of one trying to paint the picture that Roy is specifically avoided per say... In the cases you provided, the QB has the ball and in the case of TO, he is specifically double-teamed because he is a force to be reckoned with.

In the case of Roy, you can't establish anything other than the team moved a SS out of the box, not because it was Roy, but simply because the defense would have less run support... It could be any joe-blow at strong safety because such situations happen more-often than not with various defensive players...

 

[AdamJT13]

do you think you're gonna accomplish anything with this Roy trip you're on or do you just like to argue/debate/discuss Roy Williams?

I hope I can keep people from perpetuating myths and start reporting facts.

Crazy, I know.

 

[khiladi]

Did Stewart say that? All he basically said was that Henry is a good cornerback and would stay there. If anyone on the coaching staff thought Roy really needed to be replaced as a starting safety, don't you think we might have already added at least ONE decent safety to the roster this offseason?

Uh yes, he did say that.

We like him at corner. He's done an excellent job at corner. He has all thos INTs despite missing time.

He said he has done an EXCELLENT job at cornerback that got plenty of interceptions while being hurt a majority of the time. What this means is that Stewart was riding his jock as a CB.

You seem to be trying to read into what Stewart DIDN'T say more than what he did say. And you only read into what he didn't say they way you want him to not say what he didn't say.

That is quite laughable. To assume that Roy has anything to do with Henry at FS is reading into what Stewart didn't say. Don't even get me started on Roy and how teams 'specifically avoid him'...

 

[AdamJT13]

I think it does matter in the context of one trying to paint the picture that Roy is specifically avoided per say.

Wasn't Norm the one just saying teams did it to "isolate Roy"?

Should we correct him and let him know that they did it to isolate the strong safety, not Roy?

Is that what you're saying?

 

[AdamJT13]

He said he was a good cornerback that got plenty of interceptions while being hurt. What this means is that Stewart was riding his jock as a CB.

That is quite laughable. Stewart flat-out said that Henry grabs interceptions at his position despite being hurt.

And what does that have to do with Roy, as you claimed?

 

[khiladi]

Wasn't Norm the one just saying teams did it to "isolate Roy"?

Should we correct him and let him know that they did it to isolate the strong safety, not Roy?

Is that what you're saying?

That doesn't change the fact that you claimed that teams were trying to avoid Roy, now does it? We know that certain Giants players specifically said they were targetting Roy Williams... I'm sure they were more knowledgeable about their own game-plan than you were...

 

[adamknite]

do you think you're gonna accomplish anything with this Roy trip you're on or do you just like to argue/debate/discuss Roy Williams?

Lets see, you made somewhere in the proximity of 2000 posts about McFadden......

Yet here you are bashing Adam for talking about Roy Williams, somebody who is actually on the team?

So what did you think you were going to accomplish by pimping McFadden to the board? Adam brought statistical and rational evidence to back up his argument, all you did was say "Jerry said he was bringing a wow, that wow is McFadden" with absolutely nothing supporting your claims even after Jerry said he wasn't going to go after DMac.

Even though you were in the same situation as Adam, being one of the only people trying to defend your stance, you can't see where he's coming from.....

Funny, when Adam is smacking around trolls with these same types of arguments everybody is praising his name, he tries to defend our Pro Bowl SS and the wolves attack. Go figure.

 

[SMCowboy]

I think it does matter in the context of one trying to paint the picture that Roy is specifically avoided per say... In the cases you provided, the QB has the ball and in the case of TO, he is specifically double-teamed because he is a force to be reckoned with.

In the case of Roy, you can't establish anything other than the team moved a SS out of the box, not because it was Roy, but simply because the defense would have less run support... It could be any joe-blow at strong safety because such situations happen more-often than not with various defensive players...

And teams often split TE's out wide in the league today because there is not a SS in the league that will match up great with the better TE's in the league in a 1 on 1 situation.

We did the same thing alot of times with Jason Witten, and we never faced Roy Williams (given he is on our team)....

 

[khiladi]

And what does that have to do with Roy, as you claimed?

I claimed it has anything to do with Roy? When did I do that... I stated that the reason Henry wasn't moved to FS is because Henry is a damn good cornerback per the words of Stewart. It is HIS OWN PLAY at CB that prevents him from being moved to FS...

I'm not the one saying that if Roy was such a liability, why don't they move Henry to FS and Ken Hamlin to SS... Your whole argument is predicated upon the notion that moving Ken Hamlin to FS would less impact the team then benching Roy....

 

[SMCowboy]

That doesn't change the fact that you claimed that teams were trying to avoid Roy, now does it? We know that certain Giants players specifically said they were targetting Roy Williams... I'm sure they were more knowledgeable about their own game-plan than you were...

Heck, we target the opponents SS a LOT also with Jason Witten.

Did the Giants target Roy Williams in the game, ABSOLUTELY. If they didn't it would be flat STUPID. No SS in football is even a good match up against Jeremy Shockey (or Witten, Gates, Cooley, ect) one on one.

 

[cobra]

I think we are focusing on the wrong question.

The argument seems to be focusing on "Does Roy suck, and if so, how badly?"

That doesn't seem to be the issue to me.

The issue to me seems to be "At X million a year, does Roy provide value to the team sufficient to justify the allocation of those resources in his salary."

Unfortunately, the answer to that question seems to be no. The value--meaning, the benefit he adds above any other strong safety-- that Roy adds to this team is minimal, if not non-existant. So the money could perhaps be better allocated in this salary cap to keeping Newman and signing a cheaper SS. Right now, Roy Williams is a widget, a perfectly fungible good, and such goods do not warrant a premium price.

 

[Rampage]

Lets see, you made somewhere in the proximity of 2000 posts about McFadden......

Yet here you are bashing Adam for talking about Roy Williams, somebody who is actually on the team?

So what did you think you were going to accomplish by pimping McFadden to the board? Adam brought statistical and rational evidence to back up his argument, all you did was say "Jerry said he was bringing a wow, that wow is McFadden" with absolutely nothing supporting your claims even after Jerry said he wasn't going to go after DMac.

Even though you were in the same situation as Adam, being one of the only people trying to defend your stance, you can't see where he's coming from.....

Funny, when Adam is smacking around trolls with these same types of arguments everybody is praising his name, he tries to defend our Pro Bowl SS and the wolves attack. Go figure.

i wasn't trying to accomplish anything. i was stating my opinion that i hoped/thought we would draft McFadden. i just asked him if he was trying to accomplish something or if he like talking about Roy. also it's impossible to "smack" anyone around over the internet. he answered my question he didn't need your help. maybe you were just lending a hand to a fellow Adam, who knows

 

[trickblue]

I think we are focusing on the wrong question.

The argument seems to be focusing on "Does Roy suck, and if so, how badly?"

That doesn't seem to be the issue to me.

The issue to me seems to be "At X million a year, does Roy provide value to the team sufficient to justify the allocation of those resources in his salary."

Unfortuantely, the answer to that question seems to be no. The value that Roy adds to this team is minimal, if not non-existant. So the money could perhaps be better allocated in this salary cap to keeping Newman and signing a cheaper SS.

and Cobra steers us head on into the actual subject of this thread...

Nice driving Speedy!

 

[big dog cowboy]

Anyone else miss those QC/Hutch/Henson debates?

 

[adamknite]

i wasn't trying to accomplish anything. i was stating my opinion that i hoped/thought we would draft McFadden. i just asked him if he was trying to accomplish something or if he like talking about Roy. also it's impossible to "smack" anyone around over the internet. he answered my question he didn't need your help. maybe you were just lending a hand to a fellow Adam, who knows

Figure of speech..... simple concept.

I was just wondering why you seemed so harsh towards somebody when you were in the same boat at one time. I figured you of all people would understand what the point was.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

There is a decision this team may have to contemplate. Like it or not, we live in a money world. People not performing to their level of pay risk losing their job. It's the real world. It happened to TO in Philly when his bonus of 15 mil came due.

I don't know what the Cowboys are going to do in the situation I am about to discuss.

Let's be honest. Roy William's play has declined in the last couple of years. Teams are obviously structuring their plays to isolate Roy in coverage.

The Cowboys have gathered quite a few DB's over the last two years in the draft and trades.

What are Roy's strengths? Blowing up plays around the LOS. Have we seen much of that lately? No. Have we seen the huge game changing hits? Not lately. In fact we have been concerned with his poor tackling as of late.

This is a all a side issue. The question is what do the Cowboys think of Roy Williams? Roy signed a contract extension in 2006. It did not kick in in 2006 and is bound through 2010. He was given a 11.1 mil signing bonus. These numbers are roughly accurate. He counts against the cap at somewhere just under 3 million dollars. On June 1st, if the club ponders releasing him, he would hit the cap for 2.5-2.9 mil. Next year would be around 5.9 mil. The way his new contract was drawn up, his base salary was under $600,000 last year. If you add that bonus spread out over 4 years, he costs the Cowboys roughly 3.5 mil per year over the length of the deal.

This year his base jumps to 3.72 mil. Next year 4.4 and in 2010 a bit over 4 mil. If the Cowboys contemplate cutting him, just under 3 mil this year and just under 6 mil next year, but 3.7 mil comes off the books in base salary this year so it would actually be a little advantageous. Next year, as we said, it would be 5.9, but the FOLLOWING year, Dallas would have 4 million they hadn't counted on. He is owed over 12 mil the next three years. The Cowboys have to ask themselves if he's worth over 4 mil for the next three years given his current level of play.

I hate saying this about a player but it is reality these days. It happens every day in the NFL.

Is he a three down S anymore? Absolutely not. We asked Brian Stewart in an interview on draft day that by picking up Pacman, Scandrick and Jenkins is it part of a plan to keep Roy off the field on passing downs. He paused and said... "yes"...

I think this jump in base salary this year puts a question mark by Roy Williams name in regards to his future here.

Adding to this discussion with his statements lately on not being comfortable in this scheme. Their was a meeting last week with Stewart and Campo on his role on this team come this year.

I said on draft day that with the players Dallas took, they were taking Roy off the field for 100 more plays. He is a two down player now...

.....

He's taking calls on this now...

thats funny considering Stewart said RW was going to be used more i wonder who i am supposed to believe.

 

[aikemirv]

I think we are focusing on the wrong question.

The argument seems to be focusing on "Does Roy suck, and if so, how badly?"

That doesn't seem to be the issue to me.

The issue to me seems to be "At X million a year, does Roy provide value to the team sufficient to justify the allocation of those resources in his salary."

Unfortunately, the answer to that question seems to be no. The value--meaning, the benefit he adds above any other strong safety-- that Roy adds to this team is minimal, if not non-existant. So the money could perhaps be better allocated in this salary cap to keeping Newman and signing a cheaper SS. Right now, Roy Williams is a widget, a perfectly fungible good, and such goods do not warrant a premium price.

But, cutting him cost us the same in 2008, more in 2009 and who knows what his replacement is going to cost in 2010. So, where is the extra money for Newman in that scenario?

 

[Rampage]

Figure of speech..... simple concept.

I was just wondering why you seemed so harsh towards somebody when you were in the same boat at one time. I figured you of all people would understand what the point was.

i understand his point. i wasn't going to spawn and x-men forums on if we should draft Dmac or not though. he's going around getting all the exaggerated sayings that people have posted out of frustration with Roy's play compared to what it used to be. he could just talk to the people who say they don't feel his play garners the money he makes anymore. but instead he's talking to the people who say "Roy is 300 pounds" and other exaggerations.