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Need some turnovers first in order to create points..SuspectCorner;2768730 said:
Mark Jackson suggests taking Yao out? Is he smoking? That's why he wasn't hired as the Knicks coach. Who does that?
Rockets VS Fakers thread
- Thread starter MC KAos
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Mark Jackson suggests taking Yao out? Is he smoking? That's why he wasn't hired as the Knicks coach. Who does that?
SuspectCorner
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Homecourt advantage goes back to the Lakers and Yao looks like his legs are gone.
Well, we knew it was going to be uphill in this series.
Well, we knew it was going to be uphill in this series.
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One of the few true big men in the league and you want to let him go?Rampage;2768733 said:
*smh*
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Flagrant two? He went for the ball. *smh*
SuspectCorner
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WoodysGirl;2768741 said:
That wasn't flagrant. It just barely qualified as a hard foul. Hello. This is NBA playoff basketball - not a cotillion. The refs are overcompensating for the last game.
Unless it's Yao getting hacked to death in the paint. THEN they seem oblivious.
Bonecrusher#31
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Gotta love the Lakeshow !!! 
Bonecrusher#31
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Rampage;2768743 said:
Don't ruin the dream for these haters...Keep dreaming.
lewpac
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Yao had a "double double" tonight. Lighten up on the guy.........
It's all about Kobe. He knows he's a great scorer, so "misses" don't get him down. He started hot, played around in the middle, and then took the game over toward the end. It seems that this will be the pattern until MY ROCKETS figure out a way to simply just pester him a little.
You can't stop Bryant, so forget that. They just gotta' man-up on him and make his life harder. THAT would be a win for Houston. Another thing........Artest screws up again like he did tonight, and it's an automatic suspension for one game. If that happens, it's "series over".
It's all about Kobe. He knows he's a great scorer, so "misses" don't get him down. He started hot, played around in the middle, and then took the game over toward the end. It seems that this will be the pattern until MY ROCKETS figure out a way to simply just pester him a little.
You can't stop Bryant, so forget that. They just gotta' man-up on him and make his life harder. THAT would be a win for Houston. Another thing........Artest screws up again like he did tonight, and it's an automatic suspension for one game. If that happens, it's "series over".
MC KAos
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i think yao cant be the main guy and win a championship unless the rest of the players are very good. i think it would be best for him to play with someone like chris paul or deron williams. i also didnt think that was a flagrant 2, it was borderline flagrant 1 at worst. i guess its me being captain obvious but game 4 is pretty humongous, if the lakers win the series is over as far as im concerned
peplaw06
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MC KAos;2768638 said:
Bringing up Spurs and Mavs in this thread, classic troll ploy. When you no longer have an argument, change the subject.
Please MCJagoff... tell us all how Derek Fisher made himself bleed to one up Scola's flopping...
We are all amazed at your basketball knowledge....
MC KAos
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peplaw06;2768882 said:Bringing up Spurs and Mavs in this thread, classic troll ploy. When you no longer have an argument, change the subject.
Please MCJagoff... tell us all how Derek Fisher made himself bleed to one up Scola's flopping...
We are all amazed at your basketball knowledge....
http://i58.***BLOCKED***/albums/g274/fakemxcan/dirk9ee.gif
Gemini Dolly
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Kobe is just freaking amazing. Even if you hate him, you got to respect hes got game. I know the series isnt over yet, and there is still a chance Rockets win the series, but I just have to say Kobe Bean Bryant is ridiculous on that court.
I love the killer instinct he has when the game is on the line. MJ had the same thing. They want the ball in their hands and they will win the game. He wants a 4th championship badly. He says it keeps him up at night. I love when players talk like that. I wish Tony Romo had that instinct.
I love the killer instinct he has when the game is on the line. MJ had the same thing. They want the ball in their hands and they will win the game. He wants a 4th championship badly. He says it keeps him up at night. I love when players talk like that. I wish Tony Romo had that instinct.
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Perkins off hook; Artest foul flagrant-1
Comment Email Print Share
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
Archive
Orlando, Fla. -- Kendrick Perkins and the Boston Celtics received some good news Saturday from the NBA, learning that Perkins will not be suspended for Game 4 of the Boston-Orlando series for hitting Orlando's Mickael Pietrus in the throat with an elbow.
Artest
Perkins
An NBA spokesman said the Perkins play "stands as called," meaning Perkins will still be charged with one flagrant foul point (players are suspended a game when they reach four flagrant foul points) but will not have to sit out Sunday's game.
Also, the NBA downgraded Ron Artest's flagrant foul against Pau Gasol in Friday night's Lakers-Rockets game from a flagrant-2 to a flagrant-1.
NBA vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson said the Perkins-Pietrus play did not fit the criteria for a suspendable offense.
Perkins elbowed Pietrus early in the fourth quarter of Boston's 117-96 defeat.
"I was just trying to fight through a screen. It wasn't like I was trying to hurt him or elbow him in his mouth or nothing like that, I was just trying to fight through the screen and ended up hitting him," Perkins said.
NBA rules call for the automatic ejection of a player who strikes an opponent above the shoulders with an elbow or a punch, but Perkins was not tossed from the game and the play was not reviewed because it did not involve a flagrant-2 foul.
The NBA cited the elbow-above-the-shoulders rule in suspending Orlando's Dwight Howard for Game 6 of the Orlando-Philadelphia series after he struck Samuel Dalembert of the Sixers, and Kobe Bryant was retroactively assessed a flagrant-one foul for elbowing Artest in the upper chest in Game 2 of the Los Angeles-Houston series.
"Perkins committed the contact in the context of a basketball play, and the contact that he made was not hard enough to warrant something that would be suspendable. In other words, he didn't strike Pietrus, which is one of the criteria for a suspendable offense," Jackson told ESPN.com. "He didn't strike him. He had his forearm up in an effort to avoid the screen, and when he had his elbow up, Pietrus was also moving, so it's not like he struck Pietrus or swung at Pietrus.
"There are two criteria. One, unlike Howard, this was done in the context of a basketball play, what Kendrick Perkins was trying to do was avoid being screened. The second reason, if we're truly trying to explain it, is that the contact he delivered was not hard enough to warrant something that's suspendable or a flagrant foul penalty two. The rule says that you have an elbow that you strike a player with, you will get suspended. This was not hard enough contact, and it wasn't a strike," Jackson said.
The downgrading of Artest's foul means he will carry only one flagrant foul point into Game 4 of the Rockets-Lakers series.
"The Artest play did not fit the criteria of a flagrant-2 -- unnecessary and excessive. It was unnecessary, but certainly not excessive," Jackson said.
Perkins, Rajon Rondo of Boston and Derek Fisher of Los Angeles are the only players currently carrying two flagrant foul points. Artest, Bryant, Chauncey Billups and Kenyon Martin of Denver and Jason Terry of Dallas each are carrying one flagrant foul point.
Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
Comment Email Print Share
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
Archive
Orlando, Fla. -- Kendrick Perkins and the Boston Celtics received some good news Saturday from the NBA, learning that Perkins will not be suspended for Game 4 of the Boston-Orlando series for hitting Orlando's Mickael Pietrus in the throat with an elbow.
Artest
Perkins
An NBA spokesman said the Perkins play "stands as called," meaning Perkins will still be charged with one flagrant foul point (players are suspended a game when they reach four flagrant foul points) but will not have to sit out Sunday's game.
Also, the NBA downgraded Ron Artest's flagrant foul against Pau Gasol in Friday night's Lakers-Rockets game from a flagrant-2 to a flagrant-1.
NBA vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson said the Perkins-Pietrus play did not fit the criteria for a suspendable offense.
Perkins elbowed Pietrus early in the fourth quarter of Boston's 117-96 defeat.
"I was just trying to fight through a screen. It wasn't like I was trying to hurt him or elbow him in his mouth or nothing like that, I was just trying to fight through the screen and ended up hitting him," Perkins said.
NBA rules call for the automatic ejection of a player who strikes an opponent above the shoulders with an elbow or a punch, but Perkins was not tossed from the game and the play was not reviewed because it did not involve a flagrant-2 foul.
The NBA cited the elbow-above-the-shoulders rule in suspending Orlando's Dwight Howard for Game 6 of the Orlando-Philadelphia series after he struck Samuel Dalembert of the Sixers, and Kobe Bryant was retroactively assessed a flagrant-one foul for elbowing Artest in the upper chest in Game 2 of the Los Angeles-Houston series.
"Perkins committed the contact in the context of a basketball play, and the contact that he made was not hard enough to warrant something that would be suspendable. In other words, he didn't strike Pietrus, which is one of the criteria for a suspendable offense," Jackson told ESPN.com. "He didn't strike him. He had his forearm up in an effort to avoid the screen, and when he had his elbow up, Pietrus was also moving, so it's not like he struck Pietrus or swung at Pietrus.
"There are two criteria. One, unlike Howard, this was done in the context of a basketball play, what Kendrick Perkins was trying to do was avoid being screened. The second reason, if we're truly trying to explain it, is that the contact he delivered was not hard enough to warrant something that's suspendable or a flagrant foul penalty two. The rule says that you have an elbow that you strike a player with, you will get suspended. This was not hard enough contact, and it wasn't a strike," Jackson said.
The downgrading of Artest's foul means he will carry only one flagrant foul point into Game 4 of the Rockets-Lakers series.
"The Artest play did not fit the criteria of a flagrant-2 -- unnecessary and excessive. It was unnecessary, but certainly not excessive," Jackson said.
Perkins, Rajon Rondo of Boston and Derek Fisher of Los Angeles are the only players currently carrying two flagrant foul points. Artest, Bryant, Chauncey Billups and Kenyon Martin of Denver and Jason Terry of Dallas each are carrying one flagrant foul point.
Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
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Shouldn't have been flagrant, at all. Stu didn't want to neuter the refs.
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Physical exam: Rockets-Lakers better
Comment Email Print Share By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
Listen closely to the words of the Lakers and the Rockets. You'll hear them talking about the physical turn their series took in Game 2, but you won't hear them complaining about it. They aren't lobbying insults and accusations of dirty play back and forth like a long tennis rally. They aren't crying to the officials or the league to make it stop. The underlying message is not only has the rough play heightened interest in the series, it's restored the manliness factor to the postseason.
"It's playoff basketball," Lakers guard Derek Fisher said. "You have to be mentally tough; you have to be physically tough. I don't think there are many plays where guys are intentionally trying to harm guys or injure guys or take guys out."
That's not what the NBA felt, because Stu Jackson decided to suspend Fisher for Friday night's Game 3 for a vicious check Fisher delivered to Houston's Luis Scola in the third quarter of Game 2.
The Rockets didn't decline the penalty, so to speak. Yet not even the victim felt it was necessary to start a crusade to clean up the series.
"It's part of the game," Scola shrugged.
Jackson deemed Kobe Bryant's elbow to Ron Artest a flagrant foul, but not worthy of suspension. Artest was skeptical of the ruling. Still, he admitted, "I kind of respect them elbows."
"I think some of the refs, they let the game get out of hand a little bit," Artest told reporters at practice Thursday. "But that's the playoffs for you. It was a nice and wild atmosphere at the same time."
Only Artest would find something both nice and wild. Is there a combination that fits him better? He can get you 25 points or he can start a major incident. He's also emblematic of why the physical play of today's NBA isn't the same as it was in the 1990s: It's not wrestling; there's basketball skill involved as well. Bryant didn't just give Artest an elbow; he gave Artest and Shane Battier 40 points.
When the New York Knicks got rough and tough in the 1990s it was because they couldn't win beauty pageants. When they slugged it out with the Bulls in their turning-point 1992 playoff series, neither team scored 100 points until Game 6.
That's a far cry from when the Celtics tried to intimidate the Lakers in the 1984 NBA Finals. Even in the game when Kevin McHale clotheslined Kurt Rambis -- resulting in two free throws for Rambis; that's all, no ejection or suspension -- the final score was 129-125.
Back then Pat Riley complained about the Celtics' roughing up his Lakers. In the 1990s Phil Jackson complained about Pat Riley's Knicks' roughing up his Bulls (the Knicks were "playing football, not basketball," according to Jackson. Jackson was "whining and whimpering," according to Riley).
So the league responded. It instituted flagrant fouls and created automatic suspensions for players who left the bench during altercations.
In 2007 Amare Stoudemire had to miss a crucial playoff game simply for wandering down the sideline at the wrong time, even though he never touched anyone.
League officials have gone too far the other way, and they also haven't changed with the times. One of the reasons the NBA had to crack down on fighting was because it was horrified by the scenes of African-American men fighting each other. It was judged much more harshly than fighting in the overwhelmingly white NHL. And it's not just the different traditions and cultures of the games, not when you hear old-school NBA players and coaches talk about how they used to settle things with their elbows and fists back in the day. No, the league in its desire to make the game mainstream tried to eliminate the image of the Angry Black Man.
What got me about the Times survey was the part that showed 66 percent of respondents thought race relations in this country are generally good. That's up from 25 percent in 1992, in a survey taken around the same time as the riots in Los Angeles that followed the Rodney King beating case verdict. While racism isn't extinct, it doesn't hover over everything in the NBA the way it did before, even as recently as the implementation of the dress code in 2005.
Does the league still need to be as intrusive? Do we need to wait for rulings from Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president of operations, before we can assess which team has the advantage in a series?
"We would rather not have to make these decisions," Jackson said in conference call Thursday. "And we certainly don't want to take away the competitiveness of players or the aggressiveness of players. What we do want is to make sure that the players play the game within the rules. It's important for the safety of the players, the entertainment value of our fans. When we need to intervene, we will."
A full decade of cracking down has had its effect. Jackson, in a conversation before Game 2 of the Rockets-Lakers, noticed how many players stop short of throwing full punches because they're aware of the consequences. Keep the punching penalties in place. Protect airborne players as well.
Just don't wade into every push and shove. The NBA has swung to the side of overly cautious, but has yet to reach the point of uniformity, leaving itself in a gray area that frustrates fans, coaches and players.
"What's the defining rule?" Lakers coach Phil Jackson wondered. "What's the defining judgment? Who knows? It's all arbitrary."
We shouldn't see Artest ejected on a single technical foul in the fourth quarter of a playoff game just because he runs across the court to yell at Bryant.
Even Bryant said, "I don't think he should even have been kicked out for it. It's good, competitive basketball."
Once again the league is living in the troubles of the past, holding Artest to a different standard because he instigated the brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills. There's clearly an unwritten rule involved when Artest runs to a conflict; he received a technical foul in a game at Dallas at the start of the season when he rushed in to play peacemaker and separate Yao Ming and Josh Howard.
Believe it or not, Artest was in control when he got to Bryant. If he wanted to come to blows, to not just tell Bryant that he would jack him up but actually demonstrate how, he would have done it. If Artest can exercise that much restraint, can't the officials?
The players are loving it. The heightened animosity even got the subdued Staples Center crowd into it.
Ironically, the best perspective came from the man who delivered the most egregious foul.
"At times it's going to involve more physical play than others," Fisher said. "But compared to our game years ago, I don't think there's a lot of stuff happening that's completely over the top."
As Fisher will see when he watches Game 3, this series hasn't been made worse by the rough stuff. It's been improved.
J.A. Adande is an ESPN.com senior writer and the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." Click here to e-mail J.A.
Comment Email Print Share By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
Listen closely to the words of the Lakers and the Rockets. You'll hear them talking about the physical turn their series took in Game 2, but you won't hear them complaining about it. They aren't lobbying insults and accusations of dirty play back and forth like a long tennis rally. They aren't crying to the officials or the league to make it stop. The underlying message is not only has the rough play heightened interest in the series, it's restored the manliness factor to the postseason.
"It's playoff basketball," Lakers guard Derek Fisher said. "You have to be mentally tough; you have to be physically tough. I don't think there are many plays where guys are intentionally trying to harm guys or injure guys or take guys out."
That's not what the NBA felt, because Stu Jackson decided to suspend Fisher for Friday night's Game 3 for a vicious check Fisher delivered to Houston's Luis Scola in the third quarter of Game 2.
The Rockets didn't decline the penalty, so to speak. Yet not even the victim felt it was necessary to start a crusade to clean up the series.
"It's part of the game," Scola shrugged.
Jackson deemed Kobe Bryant's elbow to Ron Artest a flagrant foul, but not worthy of suspension. Artest was skeptical of the ruling. Still, he admitted, "I kind of respect them elbows."
"I think some of the refs, they let the game get out of hand a little bit," Artest told reporters at practice Thursday. "But that's the playoffs for you. It was a nice and wild atmosphere at the same time."
Only Artest would find something both nice and wild. Is there a combination that fits him better? He can get you 25 points or he can start a major incident. He's also emblematic of why the physical play of today's NBA isn't the same as it was in the 1990s: It's not wrestling; there's basketball skill involved as well. Bryant didn't just give Artest an elbow; he gave Artest and Shane Battier 40 points.
When the New York Knicks got rough and tough in the 1990s it was because they couldn't win beauty pageants. When they slugged it out with the Bulls in their turning-point 1992 playoff series, neither team scored 100 points until Game 6.
That's a far cry from when the Celtics tried to intimidate the Lakers in the 1984 NBA Finals. Even in the game when Kevin McHale clotheslined Kurt Rambis -- resulting in two free throws for Rambis; that's all, no ejection or suspension -- the final score was 129-125.
Back then Pat Riley complained about the Celtics' roughing up his Lakers. In the 1990s Phil Jackson complained about Pat Riley's Knicks' roughing up his Bulls (the Knicks were "playing football, not basketball," according to Jackson. Jackson was "whining and whimpering," according to Riley).
So the league responded. It instituted flagrant fouls and created automatic suspensions for players who left the bench during altercations.
In 2007 Amare Stoudemire had to miss a crucial playoff game simply for wandering down the sideline at the wrong time, even though he never touched anyone.
League officials have gone too far the other way, and they also haven't changed with the times. One of the reasons the NBA had to crack down on fighting was because it was horrified by the scenes of African-American men fighting each other. It was judged much more harshly than fighting in the overwhelmingly white NHL. And it's not just the different traditions and cultures of the games, not when you hear old-school NBA players and coaches talk about how they used to settle things with their elbows and fists back in the day. No, the league in its desire to make the game mainstream tried to eliminate the image of the Angry Black Man.
What got me about the Times survey was the part that showed 66 percent of respondents thought race relations in this country are generally good. That's up from 25 percent in 1992, in a survey taken around the same time as the riots in Los Angeles that followed the Rodney King beating case verdict. While racism isn't extinct, it doesn't hover over everything in the NBA the way it did before, even as recently as the implementation of the dress code in 2005.
Does the league still need to be as intrusive? Do we need to wait for rulings from Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president of operations, before we can assess which team has the advantage in a series?
"We would rather not have to make these decisions," Jackson said in conference call Thursday. "And we certainly don't want to take away the competitiveness of players or the aggressiveness of players. What we do want is to make sure that the players play the game within the rules. It's important for the safety of the players, the entertainment value of our fans. When we need to intervene, we will."
A full decade of cracking down has had its effect. Jackson, in a conversation before Game 2 of the Rockets-Lakers, noticed how many players stop short of throwing full punches because they're aware of the consequences. Keep the punching penalties in place. Protect airborne players as well.
Just don't wade into every push and shove. The NBA has swung to the side of overly cautious, but has yet to reach the point of uniformity, leaving itself in a gray area that frustrates fans, coaches and players.
"What's the defining rule?" Lakers coach Phil Jackson wondered. "What's the defining judgment? Who knows? It's all arbitrary."
We shouldn't see Artest ejected on a single technical foul in the fourth quarter of a playoff game just because he runs across the court to yell at Bryant.
Even Bryant said, "I don't think he should even have been kicked out for it. It's good, competitive basketball."
Once again the league is living in the troubles of the past, holding Artest to a different standard because he instigated the brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills. There's clearly an unwritten rule involved when Artest runs to a conflict; he received a technical foul in a game at Dallas at the start of the season when he rushed in to play peacemaker and separate Yao Ming and Josh Howard.
Believe it or not, Artest was in control when he got to Bryant. If he wanted to come to blows, to not just tell Bryant that he would jack him up but actually demonstrate how, he would have done it. If Artest can exercise that much restraint, can't the officials?
The players are loving it. The heightened animosity even got the subdued Staples Center crowd into it.
Ironically, the best perspective came from the man who delivered the most egregious foul.
"At times it's going to involve more physical play than others," Fisher said. "But compared to our game years ago, I don't think there's a lot of stuff happening that's completely over the top."
As Fisher will see when he watches Game 3, this series hasn't been made worse by the rough stuff. It's been improved.
J.A. Adande is an ESPN.com senior writer and the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." Click here to e-mail J.A.
TheCount
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Stu is as inconsistant as Rodger Goodell. That Rondo smacking a guy in the head, not even attempting to make a play on the ball, from behind is nothing more than a regular ole foul and that Kobe can be retroactively accessed a flagrant foul when fighting for position under the basket is completely BS.
Refs have been throwing flagrants and technicals against everyone except the Celtics after the Rondo incident.
Refs have been throwing flagrants and technicals against everyone except the Celtics after the Rondo incident.