Roy is still the best WR on the team

[bleedin' blue]

Apparently no one remembers RW absolutely killing us even though he was playing for one of the crappiest teams ever?
For whatever reason he and Romo can't seem to get in sync and being that 2 parties are involved in this situation I'm gonna have to give them equal blame....OK maybe Roy gets 60%...
Also I am not basing this on his college performances....
Plenty of footage available with him and the Lions...

 

[tomson75]

Can you people just put it to rest already! We're winning and everyone's contributing. Just enjoy it. It seems like some of you aren't happy unless a 20 page *****-fest thread is started every 10 minutes.

How about you just let those of us who haven't taken part in the other 20 page threads discuss this without you telling us what to do.

If you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[21Savage]

Talk about uninformed posts. Having a little trouble distinguishing between potential and production, or is you definition of "best" completely different from the rest of humanity's?

I'm talking about past production and future potential. Next!

 

[RamziD]

How about you just let those of us who haven't taken part in the other 20 page threads discuss this without you telling us what to do.

If you don't like it, don't read it.

If you haven't partaken in a RW11 *****-fest thread, you must not have been paying attention the last 8 weeks. BTW, I'm allowed to have an opinion, too. Who are you, trying to squelch free speech anyways... a mod?

 

[skinsscalper]

How about you just let those of us who haven't taken part in the other 20 page threads discuss this without you telling us what to do.

If you don't like it, don't read it.

WORD!

 

[21Savage]

Despite some of the company I'm keeping with this, I can't by any means see how anyone could say Williams is the best receiver on this team. All of the talent in the world means nothing if it doesn't translate into production on the field.

He's had ample time to develop chemistry with Romo.

He's a veteran NFL player, the same excuses allowed rookies in transition don't apply here. He was given ample leeway for last season, and there were promises that his lack of production was anomaly....at this point it doesn't appear so.

How can an undrafted rookie FA come in after only being activated twice and suddenly look more comfortable with a QB than a veteran future first that we spent a 1st and a 3rd....after the equivalent of an entire season AND an entire off-season?

I'm still holding out hope for him...I even drafted him on my fantasy team...got the start yesterday...

....but it all signs are pointing to this signing being a terrible mistake.

I keep waiting to eat my crow on this...maybe next week.

I'm saying based on what Roy put on film before the trade, our whole staff was willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd for him, along with a contract extension. No one would do that for Miles, Crayton or Hurd right now.

I believe he's the same player physically and that he and Romo just have to mesh in this particular offense. I think this Roy sucks thing has gone so far that we've actually forgotten the kind of talent he has and what he's capable of doing on the field.

And please don't even talk about Ogletree looking comfortable. The kid caught a WR screen for Christ's sake. And as I've already mentioned, this is just an outlier in the graph of WR-QB connections. It shouldn't take this long.

 

[tomson75]

If you haven't partaken in a RW11 *****-fest thread, you must not have been paying attention the last 8 weeks. BTW, I'm allowed to have an opinion, too. Who are you, trying to squelch free speech anyways... a mod?

I've been paying attention. I havent' been posting much because the level of intelligent conversation on this forum isn't what it once was. Nature of the beast I guess....more members, more idiots.

...and as far as me trying to "squelch" your free speech...look up the definition of "hypocrisy".

 

[Bleu Star]

WORD!

[youtube]u_7Kp_TapA4[/youtube]

 

[21Savage]

So what you are saying is, if we get a lesser QB, roy will improve?

He doesn't need to physically improve but most of us would reasonable conclude that if Kitna was the QB they'll be on the same page. Then his numbers would be more suitable to his status and that of a number 1 WR but we'll be a worse team. Which is why I don' t really get all the hand wringing and why we have to say he sucks.

 

[tomson75]

I'm saying based on what Roy put on film before the trade, our whole staff was willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd for him, along with a contract extension. No one would do that for Miles, Crayton or Hurd right now.

I believe he's the same player physically and that he and Romo just have to mesh in this particular offense. I think this Roy sucks thing has gone so far that we've actually forgotten the kind of talent he has and what he's capable of doing on the field.

And please don't even talk about Ogletree looking comfortable. The kid caught a WR screen for Christ's sake. And as I've already mentioned, this is just an outlier in the graph of WR-QB connections. It shouldn't take this long.

Putting aside whether or not Williams was worth the ransom we gave up for him...

I never claimed that any of our other receivers are worth that ransom either. I will, however, point out that they've produced much more with many of the same factors. Some with more time, some with less. Williams has been given ample time to show what his "talent" can translate to. He's not a rookie.

I haven't been pumping Ogletree like some here, but I'll damn well talk about Ogletree if I feel like it. Fact is, he's an undrafted rookie with half the talent, one-tenth the investment, and has been given far less opportunity....and yet he gets a few snaps....and produces. I'm one of those wierdos that values production over overpriced talent, I guess.

...and no, I'm not saying Ogletree is a better WR.

An outlier? Please give me a link to this...I'd like to read it.

 

[21Savage]

Putting aside whether or not Williams was worth the ransom we gave up for him...

I never claimed that any of our other receivers are worth that ransom either. I will, however, point out that they've produced much more with many of the same factors. Some with more time, some with less. Williams has been given ample time to show what his "talent" can translate to. He's not a rookie.

I haven't been pumping Ogletree like some here, but I'll damn well talk about Ogletree if I feel like it. Fact is, he's an undrafted rookie with half the talent, one-tenth the investment, and has been given far less opportunity....and yet he gets a few snaps....and produces. I'm one of those wierdos that values production over overpriced talent, I guess.

...and no, I'm not saying Ogletree is a better WR.

An outlier? Please give me a link to this...I'd like to read it.

Give you a link to the outlier reference? You don't think it's odd that Roy has taken so long to get on the same page with Romo as opposed to most QB-WR relationships?

And you can talk about Ogletree all you want but just don't say he's getting more production than Roy because he caught one screen pass. That's just silly. In the same token, I can say Roy had more production in his first game with Tony (last year against the skins) but it wouldn't factor much now would it?

And I don't think any other WR is working under the same conditions with Roy. These will be dismissed as excuses but they're also the fact. Each one of our WR who's produced has had 4 years of working with Romo. None of them is playing with torn cartilage in their ribs that they had to miss a game for. None of them was playing with plantar fascitis in their feet in an offense you came into in the middle of the season last year, being dominated by some selfish juvenile. Heck, you can say why hasn't Miles been producing a lot more before the KC game. Surely, he didn't just turn on the switch and must have been as good as he is right now at least a few games before that.

 

[Primetime42]

Can't wait until the Roy bashers get exposed in the same manner that the Austin bashers did once he breaks out.

It's only a matter of time.

 

[RamziD]

I've been paying attention. I havent' been posting much because the level of intelligent conversation on this forum isn't what it once was. Nature of the beast I guess....more members, more idiots.

...and as far as me trying to "squelch" your free speech...look up the definition of "hypocrisy".

Lol... touche.

The constant threads about RW11 are annoying. The only reason people start them anymore is because they know it will turn out to be a 10+ post thread.

 

[tomson75]

Give you a link to the outlier reference? You don't think it's odd that Roy has taken so long to get on the same page with Romo as opposed to most QB-WR relationships?

Yes, I do.

There is a constant with our WR corps however, and the fact that the rest of them seem to have found some "chemistry" with Romo rather easily leads me to believe that Williams is more to blame than the QB.

And you can talk about Ogletree all you want but just don't say he's getting more production than Roy because he caught one screen pass. That's just silly. In the same token, I can say Roy had more production in his first game with Tony (last year against the skins) but it wouldn't factor much now would it?

I never said Ogletree was more productive. I said he looks more comfortable. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Williams clearly isn't comfortable...but how long, exactly, do we have to wait for a former first round, mega-million dollar WR to get "comfortable"...when it seems that our far less experienced WR's seem to have no trouble doing the same thing with less opportunity?

And I don't think any other WR is working under the same conditions with Roy. These will be dismissed as excuses but they're also the fact. Each one of our WR who's produced has had 4 years of working with Romo.

Valid point...but those four years were also their developmental years. Williams is far past that. I see plenty of receivers throughout the league, including a young one on our team that seem to be able to produce with the QB they're given.

...and Romo isnt' going anywhere.

None of them is playing with torn cartilage in their ribs that they had to miss a game for. None of them was playing with plantar fascitis in their feet in an offense you came into in the middle of the season last year, being dominated by some selfish juvenile. Heck, you can say why hasn't Miles been producing a lot more before the KC game. Surely, he didn't just turn on the switch and must have been as good as he is right now at least a few games before that.

You're right. Those do sound like excuses. Another fact is that injuries happen in the NFL, and good teams don't wait around on injury prone players...they move on without them. For every Jimmy Smith, there are 50 "talented" injury prone players that just disappear.

Like I said earlier, I pray that this guy serves me some crow. I'll relish it.b If he makes an Austin-like burst of production that makes this team damn near unstoppable (and helps my fantasy team).

...but I'm not going to join the party and make excuses for him or try and justify it by his ability to block downfield. I've given him his due. I think he's better than what he's shown, but if he can't even produce on the level of what I thought he was when we traded for him....we've been "had", and its time to find the production elsewhere.

 

[tomson75]

Can't wait until the Roy bashers get exposed in the same manner that the Austin bashers did once he breaks out.

It's only a matter of time.

Lol..."exposed"?

Please. "Expose" me!

Although I don't consider myself a Roy "Basher". I actually like him. I root for him. I just don't think he's playing very well right now, or that he was worth what we gave up for him.

 

[gimmesix]

I'm frustrated that he and Romo haven't got on the same page and this seems to be one of those exceptional cases where it takes too long to happen. But I believe they will. And Miles has afforded us to luxury of having more time for it to occur.

I don't think it's ever been more clear that the issue is simply Romo and Williams not being on the same page. They really tried to make it work against Seattle, and just couldn't get it right. Is it Romo making the wrong throws or Williams making the wrong adjustments? I'm not sure ... but it's probably a little bit of both. But I didn't see Williams having problems getting open, so that isn't an issue.

Now, how they go about fixing it, I'm not sure. Garrett could simplify Williams' patterns, forcing him to run specific ones instead of making adjustments, but that doesn't take advantage of what the defense shows. Or maybe Romo-Williams can go with check-with-me system, with Romo making some kind of signal to Williams or vice-versa to indicate what adjustment is going to be made.

They need to definitely figure out something, though, because we can't afford for them to not to be on the same page against in closer games. Those missed third downs could come back to haunt us.

 

[21Savage]

Yes, I do.

There is a constant with our WR corps however, and the fact that the rest of them seem to have found some "chemistry" with Romo rather easily leads me to believe that Williams is more to blame than the QB.

Do you say Williams is to blame when he runs a slant, gets wide open and the ball is at his feet? Did you say that for the 1st 2 throws that went to him in the game when one is too high and the other is behind him on the slant? Both the commentator and Romo in his post game PC said both of those throws were on the QB. Do you say it's on him when he goes over the middle and lays himself out in order to attempt to catch an apparently errant throw (btw, I believe the throw might've been on point if not for the illegal contact downfield by Champ) when he's open? Do you give him credit for coming back in the game and going back across the middle to catch a big 1st down with his injury. Do you take into account that that same errant throw caused him to miss 5 quarters of play, valuable time with his QB in practice, and some rust in his first game back?



I never said Ogletree was more productive. I said he looks more comfortable. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Williams clearly isn't comfortable...but how long, exactly, do we have to wait for a former first round, mega-million dollar WR to get "comfortable"...when it seems that our far less experienced WR's seem to have no trouble doing the same thing with less opportunity?

I don't know how you can say he's more comfortable based on anything he' done so far. And if he is then fine, it's most likely because he's a similar WR to someone like Crayton. Roy is of a different bilk and build. He's lanky, his movements are somewhat awkward, he's long, and when he's moving full speed it looks like he's jogging although he's moving very fast.



Valid point...but those four years were also their developmental years. Williams is far past that. I see plenty of receivers throughout the league, including a young one on our team that seem to be able to produce with the QB they're given.

...and Romo isnt' going anywhere.

Those 4 years where also spent catching passes and getting their timing down with Romo. They may have been developing then but they've gotten their timing down with Romo for a while. The game is not bigger than Roy and I think that's obvious when you see him run routes on the field and get open; he and Romo are just playing it on 2 different consoles right now.



You're right. Those do sound like excuses. Another fact is that injuries happen in the NFL, and good teams don't wait around on injury prone players...they move on without them. For every Jimmy Smith, there are 50 "talented" injury prone players that just disappear.

Like I said earlier, I pray that this guy serves me some crow. I'll relish it.b If he makes an Austin-like burst of production that makes this team damn near unstoppable (and helps my fantasy team).

...but I'm not going to join the party and make excuses for him or try and justify it by his ability to block downfield. I've given him his due. I think he's better than what he's shown, but if he can't even produce on the level of what I thought he was when we traded for him....we've been "had", and its time to find the production elsewhere.

That's all that matters. I believe he is too and that we'll see it soon. I just don't care for the "Roy sucks" crowd and people trying to put all the blame on him.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I don't have hte strength to argue with nonsense.

Sure, fine, Roy is still the best WR on the team.

But he's still the WORST WR on the filed.

Happy?

 

[JBond]

You are smoking crack my friend If it weren't for name/status/contract/draft pics.. that dude wouldn't be starting. "Talent" needs to be applied at some point..

If RW always sucked and shouldn't start, why was he even drafted, let alone traded for? I remember the vast majority of the board acting like giddy schoolgirls when we got him. What happened? Is he a drug addict/alcoholic? How did he decline so fast from 1st rd pick into being a bench player at best in many people eyes? Something is not right.

 

[Arch Stanton]

If you haven't partaken in a RW11 *****-fest thread, you must not have been paying attention the last 8 weeks. BTW, I'm allowed to have an opinion, too. Who are you, trying to squelch free speech anyways... a mod?

Now there's an idea!