RUMOR: Ronde Barber for Greg Ellis

[BlueStar22]

I'd love to see Barber at FS.

 

[Dough Boy]

It's been a challenge with him as well.

N-How!
Spears had 9 sacks his Sr year. I really think the injury limited his production. I think he will be a perennial 6 sack guy. This guy is a beast when he is on his game. I think he is really going to surprise many.

Canty, by the numbers (college of course) is a tackling machine, not a sack guy.

J-Ratliff was putting big time pressure from the tackle position on the nickel D, and remember he and his agent said he will see sometime outside this year at DE. He was a DE for two years at Auburn b/f moving to DT his Sr year. Watch this guy. I think he is going to be an unsung hero. I don't know how many sacks he will have, but if last year yields anything for us to ponder, he applied a copious amount of pressure on passing downs.

Stanley had 5 sacks from his DT/NT position his Sr year, not to bad. A lot of insiders contribute his pressure up the middle to Dumervilles 20 sack campaign. Hatcher is hard to say. I think he will ultimately be a 8-10 sack guy, I just don't know how soon.

One of our inside LB, is a converted DE from college. Can anyone say, Teddy Brushki (sp). Not that Adyolle (sp) production or leadership will match Teddy, but both knew how to get to the QB from there college DE days. An inside LB, that knows how to rush the QB is any centers or RB worse assignment. Centers are use to NT, that generally only bull rush. Now they have to deal with a guy much quicker and in space. I know what ppl are thinking, center playing in space. Well, in a true 3-4, if the NT slants in one direction and the ILB blitzes up the middle while both OG are sliding to help with the DE or OLB because they don't know which one is hot, now you have a center left one on one with Adoylee. I'll take the converted DE all the time. He put up back to back 9 sack seasons at Purdue. He is a 5 sack guy.

And last, I guess many are discounting Carp's pass rush ability. "The Ohio State" coaching staff thought enough to put him at DE on obvious pass rushing downs. He had 8 sacks last year. Parcells said about Carp, most guys his size, with his rush ability and speed are moved DE at the college level. It is a credit to him that he stayed at LB. I think he will put up 6 sacks this year, and level out around 8 per season.

 

[BlueStar22]

Again, just what you stated here, is what bothers me the most about Ellis...

Well, Ellis knows the writing is on the wall. His days at Valley Ranch are numbered whether it be sooner or later. What does this mean? He has to give his max effort as he will be auditioning for the other teams in the league. He will be playing for a nice payday from some other team. If he goes out and half-***** it, then he will not have any negotiating power in free agency.

 

[Alexander]

I'd love to see Barber at FS.

I'd like seeing a free safety with range on defense. We haven't had that since the days of Thomas Everett and James Washington.

 

[ZeroClub]

Just for grins let's look at a post Ellis/Glover defense and the number of sacks I believe this defense will generate... and I remind you that Purcells doesn't like to blitz so don't try conning me into believing that Roy Williams is going to have 6 sacks... it ain't happenin.

Ware 12 sacks
Spears 3 sacks
Ferguson 2 sacks
Canty 4 sacks
Johnson/Stanley 1 sack
Ratliff 3 sacks
Carpenter 3 sacks
Hatcher 2 sacks
Brady 2 sacks
Ayodele 2 sacks
Roy Williams 2 sacks
Newman 1 sack
Henry 1 sack

For whatever it is worth, here are sack stats from last year (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/DAL):

DeMarcus Ware -- 8
Scott Fujita -- 2
Scott Shanle -- 1.5

Bradie James -- 2.5 sacks last year.

Dat Nguyen -- 1
Kevin Burnett -- 1

Chris Canty -- 2.5
Greg Ellis -- 8
Marcus Spears -- 1.5
Kenyon Coleman -- 0.5
Jay Ratliff -- 1

La'Roi Glover -- 3
Jason Ferguson -- 1

Terence Newman -- 1
Roy Williams -- 2.5 sacks last year.

 

[Alexander]

For whatever it is worth, here are sack stats from last year (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/DAL):

DeMarcus Ware -- 8
Scott Fujita -- 2
Scott Shanle -- 1.5

Bradie James -- 2.5 sacks last year.

Dat Nguyen -- 1
Kevin Burnett -- 1

Chris Canty -- 2.5
Greg Ellis -- 8
Marcus Spears -- 1.5
Kenyon Coleman -- 0.5
Jay Ratliff -- 1

La'Roi Glover -- 3
Jason Ferguson -- 1

Terence Newman -- 1
Roy Williams -- 2.5 sacks last year.

I find it amazing that somehow between players like Ayodele, Carpenter, a healthy Ratliff, an experienced and healthy Spears and Canty, along with Williams and with perhaps the best set of corners in the conference, we would monumentally struggle to replace Greg Ellis' amazing and pivotal eight sack output.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Ellis should be starting here.

He is clearly our best true DE. We simply are going younger and bigger.

Even in a 3-4 D?

 

[ZeroClub]

I find it amazing that somehow between players like Ayodele, Carpenter, a healthy Ratliff, an experienced and healthy Spears and Canty, along with Williams and with perhaps the best set of corners in the conference, we would monumentally struggle to replace Greg Ellis' amazing and pivotal eight sack output.

I think you are absolutely right.

Even if we say that the guy who takes Ellis' snaps is only half as effective as Ellis - and gets only 4 sacks out of the 8 that Eliis would have gotten.

You only need 4 more sacks from elsewhere to break even ....

I don't think the numbers look that bad.

 

[Dough Boy]

I find it amazing that somehow between players like Ayodele, Carpenter, a healthy Ratliff, an experienced and healthy Spears and Canty, along with Williams and with perhaps the best set of corners in the conference, we would monumentally struggle to replace Greg Ellis' amazing and pivotal eight sack output.

I remember every off-season while there is down time, we debate one constant them. How good is Ellis at rushing the QB? Only a few ppl said great. Most replied, he was a well rounded DE. Not a sack monster, but good play the run well, good rush the passer well, knocked down a few balls and was a real good locker room guy.

Now that we've went to the 3-4, he no longer plays the run well. Now that he is digruntled, he is no longer a great locker room guy. In the nickle D, he is an ok rusher. In the 3-4 at OLB, he is as a big unknown as Carp.

I for the life of me fail to understand how an averge player - solid player, can not be replaced.

Now Glover on the other hand is a different question. I remember when we signed Glover, everyone said, "now the offense has to double Glover and Ellis will be singled and become a sack machine. I will give Ellis this, he can not be blocked by a TE. Good OT can and have neturalized him.

The one question I have about Ellis, where is the upside. Is it this hybrid role that he refuses to embrace. Maybe with the element of surprise, he has more upside. But if he remains at DE on the nickle defense, what upside is there. Pencil him in for 8 sacks. Most of those 8 will come early in the season, if he remains true to form. JMO.

 

[Alexander]

I think you are absolutely right.

Even if we say that the guy who takes Ellis' snaps is only half as effective as Ellis - and gets only 4 sacks out of the 8 that Eliis would have gotten.

You only need 4 more sacks from elsewhere to break even ....

I don't think the numbers look that bad.

It is one thing if Ellis got eight sacks but was generating consistent pressure otherwise and was a nuisance to opposing QBs the majority of the time. His consistency comes on the number of sacks he ends up with at the end of each year. He is also consistent that he generally sags over the last quarter of the season and limps to finish each game and each season. He is remarkably consistent in that he doesn't provide a solid pass rush consistently. His numbers are respectable on paper, but generally before the start of each game, you can pretty much predict how many "pressure plays" he will make and usually it isn't many.

But being completely honest, his eight sacks were exhausting his threshold. That may be what we can "set our watch by", but it is also a signal that he is an effort player that isn't going to get more than that and struggles mightily to get what he does. He gets sacks out of determination. If he gives less effort, his production will most certainly take a dip because his pure talent isn't enough to compensate.

 

[ZeroClub]

The one question I have about Ellis, where is the upside. Is it this hybrid role that he refuses to embrace. Maybe with the element of surprise, he has more upside.

That was the stated plan, of course.

It was supposed to add an element of surprise. But I'm skeptical that this surprise would constitute a net plus.

Presumably a part of the surprise is that the offense doesn't know if Ellis is rushing or covering.

Do we really want Ellis in coverage?

It is possible to surprise the opponent by doing things that really aren't in your self-interest.

Defenses would be very surprised if Bledsoe lined up at RB, but it probably isn't a good idea.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd like seeing a free safety with range on defense. We haven't had that since the days of Thomas Everett and James Washington.

we drafted our FS

Barber isn't coming to Dallas, Henry isn't moving to FS etc. etc.

 

[Alexander]

we drafted our FS

You might be sure of Watkins. I am not.

Chances are very strong we could see Keith Davis back at the position again. We could just as easily see Marcus Coleman there. Watkins is no sure thing, IMO.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

bottom line:

if Tampa Bay wants to do this, we would do it in a second.. Parcells values Ellis, but I think he would rather have the best secondary in football, barnone, than having a backup pass rush specialist..

 

[AbeBeta]

It is one thing if Ellis got eight sacks but was generating consistent pressure otherwise and was a nuisance to opposing QBs the majority of the time. His consistency comes on the number of sacks he ends up with at the end of each year. He is also consistent that he generally sags over the last quarter of the season and limps to finish each game and each season.

Someone put together a highlight reel of Ellis' sacks last year - what shocked me was that it seemed as though at least 3 or 4 were generated by Ware. Ware got a good jump and the QB was pressured right into Ellis.

From Day 1 in the league I've been impressed by Ellis' technical play -- he is almost always doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing -- it seems that the great technical play is what generated a lot of those sacks -- by being where he was supposed to be he cleaned up.

You need guys who can do that on your team. Although I'm beginning to question whether it has to be Ellis in that role.

 

[Alexander]

From Day 1 in the league I've been impressed by Ellis' technical play -- he is almost always doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing -- it seems that the great technical play is what generated a lot of those sacks -- by being where he was supposed to be he cleaned up.

That's exactly why I stated what I did earlier.

Name the time when Greg Ellis has either A) made a pivotal sack when we needed it most or B) made a sack that took your breath away and made you notice it. I think most would be challenged to find a case of either.

Solid, workmanlike players are like that. They can be consistent, but much of that "consistency" is a result of hard work. If he doesn't grind it out, he doesn't get his statistics. And as you said, even his statistics aren't impressive when they are of the "clean up" variety.

 

[big dog cowboy]

You might be sure of Watkins. I am not.

Chances are very strong we could see Keith Davis back at the position again. We could just as easily see Marcus Coleman there. Watkins is no sure thing, IMO.

I would be shocked if Davis wasn't the starter in Jacksonville.

 

[theogt]

I would be shocked if Davis wasn't the starter in Jacksonville.

I prefer the term "pleasantly surprised."

 

[Alexander]

I would be shocked if Davis wasn't the starter in Jacksonville.

So what you are saying is that we have Davis at free safety and Petitti at right tackle?

Looks like we really corrected the two biggest problem areas on this team, doesn't it?

 

[big dog cowboy]

So what you are saying is that we have Davis at free safety and Petitti at right tackle?

Looks like we really corrected the two biggest problem areas on this team, doesn't it?

Exactly what I am saying. Happy with one but not so much the other. Just not convinced that Davis is more than a glorified special teams player. Reminds me of Billy Davis wanting to play WR. He just couldn't turn that corner and I don't think Killer will either. On the other hand.......Petitti will be fine.