RUMOR: Ronde Barber for Greg Ellis

[Alexander]

Exactly what I am saying. Happy with one but not so much the other. Just not convinced that Davis is more than a glorified special teams player. Reminds me of Billy Davis wanting to play WR. He just couldn't turn that corner and I don't think Killer will either. On the other hand.......Petitti will be fine.

I am equally discouraged at the thought of either starting again. It just shows me that we buried our heads in the sand and just hoped an offseason of work cured two players who are fundamentally flawed and are best suited to be backups.

 

[theogt]

So what you are saying is that we have Davis at free safety and Petitti at right tackle?

Looks like we really corrected the two biggest problem areas on this team, doesn't it?

Vanderjagt filled one of the two biggest problems. Fabini will fill the other.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I'm not going to call Pettiti that flawed at all. Considering what he went through in the last year I don't see how anyone really knows how good this guy is. I can't believe he even finished the season. Getting healthy and working on the fundamentals this offseason will make him look like a completely different player. I'm excited to see him play this year. Davis, well, we have already seen his best I fear and agree he is best suited to be a backup.

 

[Alexander]

I'm not going to call Pettiti that flawed at all.

There are some sacks I can excuse. But he got abused all season long and wasn't exactly as great as people think, even before Adams got injured. He was out of shape, got hurt but playing the position isn't all about those two qualities. I don't see any reason to assume he is just fine given some conditioning and filmwork. There is more to the position than that. And if we just feel like we can just send a FB or TE to help him, then we are handcuffing ourselves. Our starting RT has to be self-sufficient. I don't care if they are a rookie or a 10 year veteran. You simply cannot provide them help every down. And it was clear that when we didn't last year, he struggled.

Considering what he went through in the last year I don't see how anyone really knows how good this guy is.

I agree to a point. If that is the case, why all the head-nodding and security just because we have got some good news about his conditioning work and some positive press from Matt Mosley? I'll wait to see him play. Until then, he is a question mark that will be evaluated by what I did see of him last year. And that was not impressive to say the least. No matter how many extenuating circumstances want to be thrown out there.

I can't believe he even finished the season. Getting healthy and working on the fundamentals this offseason will make him look like a completely different player. I'm excited to see him play this year. Davis, well, we have already seen his best I fear and agree he is best suited to be a backup.

Again, I fail to see how Petitti's flaws are correctable (playing tackle is mental and very technical, not just being in shape and strong) and Davis' simply are not. They are both in the same boat as far as I can see.

Both should get the opportunity to defend their jobs. And if they win out, that's fair. I still think either, even if improved, still would not be to the level I would like to see at their respective positions.

 

[AbeBeta]

I am equally discouraged at the thought of either starting again. It just shows me that we buried our heads in the sand and just hoped an offseason of work cured two players who are fundamentally flawed and are best suited to be backups.

I think we've done the right thing with these guys. We recognized that they both were in their first year as starters -- moreover both were making position changes -- Davis to FS from SS (ok -- I'm assuming that Davis was a college SS since that fits his skill set better) and Petitti switching sides. Not huge shifts to make, but we aren't talking about guys who have the types of skills to make up for mistakes. We aren't talking about raw talents like Ware who can produce even when he does things wrong.

Based on that, they both should get another chance and some into camp as the starters.

But.... We've got options now. Fabini is a solid RT (Columbo, to me, isn't even part of this discussion). Similarly, Coleman can be a solid FS.

 

[2much2soon]

I thought Pettiti was a left tackle in college?
If so, that has to be an unsettling change of position when you factor in the change in level of competition.
That he was able to step up and fight says something about his mental toughness.
I think he will be alright.

 

[Alexander]

But.... We've got options now. Fabini is a solid RT (Columbo, to me, isn't even part of this discussion). Similarly, Coleman can be a solid FS.

I agree. We didn't have options at either position last year and it showed.

I don't have any problem if either beat out the competition. I just hope that we indeed have a competition, because neither did anything last season to show they are worthy of being uncontested. If they are better than the competition, fine with me.

 

[TheSkaven]

Wow, some great comments in this thread. No one has mentioned this yet, but how many plays will Ellis be on the field verse a Rhonde Barber? I like Ellis as much as the next guy, but he's not a great fit for the 3-4 and he's probably only going to see 20 snaps a game.

Wouldn't you rather improve your starting 11 on defense? Oh yeah, and as someone else mentioned, sacks don't come out of the DE position much in the 3-4.

 

[Alexander]

Wow, some great comments in this thread. No one has mentioned this yet, but how many plays will Ellis be on the field verse a Rhonde Barber? I like Ellis as much as the next guy, but he's not a great fit for the 3-4 and he's probably only going to see 20 snaps a game.

Wouldn't you rather improve your starting 11 on defense? Oh yeah, and as someone else mentioned, sacks don't come out of the DE position much in the 3-4.

It was said earlier.

A starter and All Pro at that for a role player and never-was?

Sounds too good to be true.

One thing about the Eatman quote, he did say it would or could involve other players.

Looking at the Buccaneer roster, I could see us throwing in a backup TE or ILB to sweeten the deal.

Ellis and Brett Pierce for Barber?

Ellis and Scott Shanle for Barber?

Still great deals despite the fact he would come with 2006 being his contract year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You might be sure of Watkins. I am not.

Chances are very strong we could see Keith Davis back at the position again. We could just as easily see Marcus Coleman there. Watkins is no sure thing, IMO.

I've been one of those saying that Keith may be our starting FS, just stating that everything points to us not getting a new FS, or moving a CB over there

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I am equally discouraged at the thought of either starting again. It just shows me that we buried our heads in the sand and just hoped an offseason of work cured two players who are fundamentally flawed and are best suited to be backups.

I don't think the drafting of Watkins, the signing of Coleman, and the signing of Fabini is relying on hope

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Again, I fail to see how Petitti's flaws are correctable (playing tackle is mental and very technical, not just being in shape and strong)

playing tackle is about footwork, strength, and you know how players improve the mental and technical aspects? by gaining experience, some players are just born with it, but most have to learn it, which is the case with Pettiti and Davis, it's good that you're taking a wait and see approach, but it's just that, wait and see

 

[Alexander]

I don't think the drafting of Watkins, the signing of Coleman, and the signing of Fabini is relying on hope

If all of those players didn't have their own issues, I would believe you. But we have hope invested in all three.

Watkins might not be as good as we all were lead to believe before the draft. We hope he can play.

Coleman didn't play well the last few seasons in Houston. There is a chance he could be another Aaron Glenn. But he could also be another Adrian Murrell, brought in to be a body. We hope he could come in and compete at FS.

Fabini is another case, but given his age and ability to play both tackle spots. We might want him as a backup at both spots.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If all of those players didn't have their own issues, I would believe you. But we have hope invested in all three.

Watkins might not be as good as we all were lead to believe before the draft. We hope he can play.

Coleman didn't play well the last few seasons in Houston. There is a chance he could be another Aaron Glenn. But he could also be another Adrian Murrell, brought in to be a body. We hope he could come in and compete at FS.

Fabini is another case, but given his age and ability to play both tackle spots. We might want him as a backup at both spots.

I'm just saying that with all the options we've brought in, hope is last on the list, we're actually trying to find a player for that FS and RT position, this isn't like going into camp with Izell Reese and a 1st year Keith Davis "battling", and I stress the quotes , for the FS job, and the inexperience we had "battling" for the RT job

 

[RealCowboyfan]

It was said earlier.

A starter and All Pro at that for a role player and never-was?

Sounds too good to be true.

One thing about the Eatman quote, he did say it would or could involve other players.

Looking at the Buccaneer roster, I could see us throwing in a backup TE or ILB to sweeten the deal.

Ellis and Brett Pierce for Barber?

Ellis and Scott Shanle for Barber?

Still great deals despite the fact he would come with 2006 being his contract year.

Really.. this is too good to be true but it sound so in place.

Like Ronde Barber is in his last year of the contract and not looking towards sign back with the team after the season over.

Greg Ellis is in somewhat of the same situation but he's not starting because of the 3-4 defense. Greg will fit better in Tampa then Dallas.

Make sense. But for an elite coner like Ronde. (PRO BOWLER). Who is Greg Ellis? a mid-level player who just can't get up on double digit sacks.:starspin

 

[lspain1]

This only makes sense if TB does not believe they can re-sign Barber. I guess stranger things have happened but put me in the skeptical column.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I find it amazing that somehow between players like Ayodele, Carpenter, a healthy Ratliff, an experienced and healthy Spears and Canty, along with Williams and with perhaps the best set of corners in the conference, we would monumentally struggle to replace Greg Ellis' amazing and pivotal eight sack output.

I hope it works out.

At this point I'm not very hopeful about our pass-rush... even with Ellis.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Even in a 3-4 D?

I think even in the 3-4 Ellis was better than Canty last year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think you are absolutely right.

Even if we say that the guy who takes Ellis' snaps is only half as effective as Ellis - and gets only 4 sacks out of the 8 that Eliis would have gotten.

You only need 4 more sacks from elsewhere to break even ....

I don't think the numbers look that bad.

I think with Ellis this is barely a 40 sack team... without him and things get a little murky.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You might be sure of Watkins. I am not.

Chances are very strong we could see Keith Davis back at the position again. We could just as easily see Marcus Coleman there. Watkins is no sure thing, IMO.

Watkins isn't a sure thing... but I feel pretty good about the kid.