RUMOR: Ronde Barber for Greg Ellis

[ghst187]

TB isn't likely to re-sign a 32 year old Barber after next season. Their depth .

I believe he was born in 1975? making him 31 this season.
But the point is still valid, why would you resign a high-priced over 30 CB? But of course that begs the next question....why would we want a 31 yr old CB who will probably carry a hefty contract?
I just fail to see why we would be legitimately interested in Barber to solidify an already stellar secondary at the expense of an already fragile passrush.
Our DB roster is already too heavy.
I suppose it could happen but I fail to see legitimate rationale behind it.
The only way we could afford to give up Ellis is if we were sold that Hatch and/or Carp were going to fill the other voided passrusher position. I'm not ready to put that much faith in a pair of rookies no matter how good I THINK they will be. Add in that we don't HAVE to make a move and can let it play out while the rookies develop for another year without any real cost, in fact keeping Ellis is the cheapest and safest option.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

My only question is:: Is Nick Eaton hanging out with Rickey Williams and Quincy Carter again?

You got to be smoking alot of weed to think that the Bucs would trade Ronde Barber for Greg Ellis straight up.


That's all this is.... A RUMOR.

we'd probably have to throw in a draft pick, probably 1st day

if this is true...

that I'd definitely say no to

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Henry to FS would be a good thing- he is big enough and would be an excellant FS.

guys, Henry isn't going to be moving to FS, Parcells brought him in to cover the bigger WRs at RCB, Barber is only 5'10" 184

plus Henry is being paid a shhhload of money for a CB, much less a FS

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

If the Cowboys trade Ellis for Barber, the Cowboys have a plan for Barber.

Some have speculated about Henry at FS. Getting Barber would allow that to happen. And that might actually help the team ....

T-New (CB), Barber (CB), Williams (SS), and Henry (FS) doesn't sound half bad to me.

As a fan, I like Ellis. But he isn't a 3-4 DE. Converting him to a part-time LB would be interesting, but given the depth at LB, it isn't like Ellis would be filling a huge need at LB. Ellis has some pass rushing ability and would be used in some of those situations, but Barber could give you more snaps ....

All things considered, it isn't such a crazy idea.

Just stop a minute and let it sink in: T-New (CB), Barber (CB), Williams (SS), Henry (FS)

I think it's a great idea! The only reason so many people don't like it, is that Henry makes so much money. So what? If he is making plays all over the field, (like I know he will), and if he is getting 6-8 picks, (like I know he will), than he will more than earn his bread.

I'm from NE Ohio, and I had the pleasure of watching Henry play for the Browns his first four years. He led the AFC in ints. w/9 his rookie season. With Henry's size, 6-1, 205, and his ballhawking skills, and Barber's ability to shut down most receivers, and fill in on the run, the Cowboys will have one of the top 5 secondaries in the league. I mean, if we're going to lose Ellis anyway, why not improve your secondary?

I really believe that is why Jason Hatcher was so tempting for the Cowboys in the 3rd rd. of this year's draft. Besides of his incredible size & athleticism, it made sense to take him in case Ellis went in the tank this off-season, which he did. You know JJ & BP were listening when Ellis spoke those words of decention following the Ram's game.

With Spears, Canty, Ratliff, Coleman, and now Hatcher as our DEs, we can make it without Ellis. It sucks that we paid him that bonus, & I would try to get it back, if they can, but we now have Carpenter & Ayodele, as well as Ware, to come in & put pressure on the QB. With Barber at CB, & Henry at FS, we will get at least a dozen "cover" sacks this year alone. They will help the pass rush just as much as Ellis will. I like it!!

 

[Bizwah]

There's no way in the world anyone would give us a first day pick for Greg Ellis.

Teams just don't give up first day picks unless they're getting a premier player.

I really don't think any team would give up any pick for Ellis......Maybe a sixth or below....

If this trade rumor is true, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. I doubt it's true though.

I would also expect that it wouldn't be Barber for Ellis straight up. I would imagine draft picks would be involved somehow.

I like Madden football, but so many people think that if a trade can happen in that game, that it can happen in real life.

 

[theogt]

I think it's a great idea! The only reason so many people don't like it, is that Henry makes so much money. So what? If he is making plays all over the field, (like I know he will), and if he is getting 6-8 picks, (like I know he will), than he will more than earn his bread.

I'm from NE Ohio, and I had the pleasure of watching Henry play for the Browns his first four years. He led the AFC in ints. w/9 his rookie season. With Henry's size, 6-1, 205, and his ballhawking skills, and Barber's ability to shut down most receivers, and fill in on the run, the Cowboys will have one of the top 5 secondaries in the league. I mean, if we're going to lose Ellis anyway, why not improve your secondary?

I really believe that is why Jason Hatcher was so tempting for the Cowboys in the 3rd rd. of this year's draft. Besides of his incredible size & athleticism, it made sense to take him in case Ellis went in the tank this off-season, which he did. You know JJ & BP were listening when Ellis spoke those words of decention following the Ram's game.

With Spears, Canty, Ratliff, Coleman, and now Hatcher as our DEs, we can make it without Ellis. It sucks that we paid him that bonus, & I would try to get it back, if they can, but we now have Carpenter & Ayodele, as well as Ware, to come in & put pressure on the QB. With Barber at CB, & Henry at FS, we will get at least a dozen "cover" sacks this year alone. They will help the pass rush just as much as Ellis will. I like it!!

Agreed. Hatcher was the giant neon writing on the wall for Ellis's tenure with the Cowboys. I just thought it would happen next year rather than now.

 

[theogt]

There's no way in the world anyone would give us a first day pick for Greg Ellis.

Teams just don't give up first day picks unless they're getting a premier player.

I really don't think any team would give up any pick for Ellis......Maybe a sixth or below....

If this trade rumor is true, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. I doubt it's true though.

I would also expect that it wouldn't be Barber for Ellis straight up. I would imagine draft picks would be involved somehow.

I like Madden football, but so many people think that if a trade can happen in that game, that it can happen in real life.

Well, the Commanders seem to hand out first day picks like they're Halloween candy so never say never.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I really don't think any team would give up any pick for Ellis......Maybe a sixth or below....

His trade value is better than that. He could be some teams starting DE in a 4-3 defense. Good vs. the run and the 8 sacks a year are pretty good also. I'd be surprised if we couldn't get a 5th and a 6th for him. Teams love those 4th rounders so it would be more difficult to obtain one of those.

If we could get a 4th rounder then the interesting discussion question is, which would you rather have: A 4th rounder or a 32 year old Ronde Barber?

 

[ghst187]

That is true. But we had to trade a first round pick to get that first round pick back. No one is going to give us a first round pick for Ellis. Even if someone gave us a third round pick (possible but I think unlikely), add that with our own first round pick probably still wouldn't get us into the top 10.

:bang2:
GEESH
I never offered that either were the way we'd get into the top 5 or 10...
NYG gave up a ton of picks and got there to get Eli. Wasn't worth it IMO but THE POINT IS THAT ANY TEAM CAN TRADE UP INTO THE TOP 10, TOP 5, OR EVEN TOP 3 IF IT REALLY WANTS TO GET A CERTAIN PLAYER THERE. THEY MAY HAVE TO GIVE UP AN ENTIRE DRAFT'S WORTH OF PICKS AND MAYBE EVEN MORE TO GET THERE BUT IT CAN, AND HAS, BEEN DONE! Trading Ellis for a draft pick, regardless of what round it is but would be nice if it was a first day pick, would only add to our ability to trade into the top tier of the draft.
If a team wants in the top 10 or even top 3, THEY CAN FIND A WAY TO GET THERE!!!! ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT HAVING AN EXTRA PICK, ANY ROUND, IN EXCHANGE FOR GREG ELLIS WILL HELP US IF WE DECIDE TO TRY TO TARGET A TOP 5 OR 10 PLAYER NEXT DRAFT. GETTING THERE MAY REQUIRE TRADING MOST OF THE REST OF DRAFT PICKS BUT HAVING MORE WILL HELP KEEP US FROM HAVING TO GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS FOR THE NEXT SEASON.

The reason I bring up trading into the top 10 or 5 next season is that I don't really foresee us having a lot of needs, esp if the OL plays decently. Our primary needs are going to be youth at skill positions, primarily QB, WR, (and JJ needs to show us a full 16 game season at RB). There is an elite guy who is probably going to make the PB a half a dozen times in next year's draft who will go in the top 5 at each of those positions....Brady Quinn, Calvin Johnson, and probably Adrian Peterson...
If we don't have a ton of other needs, our D should be pretty well set and YOUNG, it might be a good time to go after one of those guys, esp a QB like Quinn.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

If we could get a 4th rounder then the interesting discussion question is, which would you rather have: A 4th rounder or a 32 year old Ronde Barber?

Barber, though im sure most would disagree.. but i would rather have an impact player that can help us RIGHT NOW and have him for the next couple of years as we are competing for Super Bowls than have a 4th rounder cause those are risky picks anyway.. you never know what you are gonna get.. id take an elite player for 2 years over a question mark any day..

 

[ghst187]

Barber, though im sure most would disagree.. but i would rather have an impact player that can help us RIGHT NOW and have him for the next couple of years as we are competing for Super Bowls than have a 4th rounder cause those are risky picks anyway.. you never know what you are gonna get.. id take an elite player for 2 years over a question mark any day..

Chris Canty, MB III....yeah those guys are real question marks

just razzin you man..

I would definitely take a 4th round pick over a 31+ yr old CB when we're stocked up there anyway...

 

[jterrell]

Ellis and Barber are both declining players but you could easily get a late 3rd round choice for them. They would both start for most teams.

Ellis should be starting here.

He is clearly our best true DE. We simply are going younger and bigger.

If Spears and Canty have breakout years they might COMBINE to equal Ellis pass rush totals. Not just the 8 sacks but all the QB pressures.

Maybe everyone has forgotten but we do not have anyone outside Ware who gets to the QB. Our 3rd best pass rusher was Glover and he is gone. Ellis simply can not leave until we get a replacement pass rusher from somewhere.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I really believe that is why Jason Hatcher was so tempting for the Cowboys in the 3rd rd. of this year's draft. Besides of his incredible size & athleticism, it made sense to take him in case Ellis went in the tank this off-season, which he did. You know JJ & BP were listening when Ellis spoke those words of decention following the Ram's game.

Hatcher is Parcells' pet-project, he wasn't drafted w/ the idea of replacing Ellis this year, maybe not even the next 2 years, just his size and athleticsm were so tempting, we'll see hatcher take time away from Ellis later on in the season IMO, not right away

Parcells always believes that if someone is sitting in the draft, esp. a Dlineman, w/ Hatchers size and athleticsm, that you have to take him

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ellis simply can not leave until we get a replacement pass rusher from somewhere.

 

[2much2soon]

I believe he was born in 1975? making him 31 this season.

Correct, but 32 at the point where they would be re-signing him after this season. (This is assuming what we have heard is accurate that his contract is up after this year.)
I see it as trading one early 30s guy for another. The one being a better CB than the other is a DE.
But its a lot more than that.
As much as I like Ellis, he is being phased out. If he only plays half the snaps he won't have the opportunity to have the same impact as Barber who will be on the field more.
And, as others have stated, the shuffling of the defensive backfield with Barber would make Roy W. a much more potent weapon. I could see the benefit of having Roy around the line of scrimmage much more of the time to more than offset the loss of Ellis.
And its nearly impossbile to have too many quality DBs. If either Newman or Henry go down it will be damaging to this defense. If you have a guy like Barber around, the impact of any injury to the DBs is greatly lessened.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Maybe everyone has forgotten but we do not have anyone outside Ware who gets to the QB. Our 3rd best pass rusher was Glover and he is gone. Ellis simply can not leave until we get a replacement pass rusher from somewhere.

N-how.

These fans that think you can just pull sacks outta your rear end just amaze me.

For a decade we've been struggling to find a pass rush. Last year we had what 37? And people thought that was weak (which to a certain extent it was) and now what we get is, "Oh don't worry we easily make up the sacks of Ellis and Glover... not a problem". My arse we can.

Just for grins let's look at a post Ellis/Glover defense and the number of sacks I believe this defense will generate... and I remind you that Purcells doesn't like to blitz so don't try conning me into believing that Roy Williams is going to have 6 sacks... it ain't happenin.

Ware 12 sacks
Spears 3 sacks
Ferguson 2 sacks
Canty 4 sacks
Johnson/Stanley 1 sack
Ratliff 3 sacks
Carpenter 3 sacks
Hatcher 2 sacks
Brady 2 sacks
Ayodele 2 sacks
Roy Williams 2 sacks
Newman 1 sack
Henry 1 sack

That totals 38 sacks which isn't anything to write home about. And I think I was pretty kind to Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher and the 4 sacks attributable to the 2 inside backers. I don't see us hitting 38 sacks.

If Ellis is gone sacks are going to be a challenge again for this team.

 

[ZeroClub]

Barber, though im sure most would disagree.. but i would rather have an impact player that can help us RIGHT NOW and have him for the next couple of years as we are competing for Super Bowls than have a 4th rounder cause those are risky picks anyway.. you never know what you are gonna get.. id take an elite player for 2 years over a question mark any day..

It seems pretty obvious that the Cowboys are trying to "win now."

I gotta believe that the Cowboys would rather have Barber (for Ellis) than a future 4th (for Ellis). If you really want to win now, you don't trade a contributor like Ellis in 2006 for a mid-round '07 rookie.

I think it is a pretty even trade.

Barber is a better player and will play more snaps for you, but he costs more salary cap (3 million this season), he isn't getting younger, and he's a free agent at the end of the year.

Tampa Bay not only isn't giving Barber the contract extension he wants, they aren't even talking about a contract extension with him. Who knows? Maybe the Bucs fear that Barber won't be a happy camper in '06.

Ellis helps the Bucs' DE rotation. His salary cap figure apparently isn't bad. He's signed for a few more years. And maybe the Bucs figure that a few years of Ellis is worth only one more year of a potentially disgruntled Barber.

 

[Alexander]

The problem with all that is "IF".

You put Ellis out there and you'll get your 8 sacks. You can pretty much set your watch by it.

"If" what he said about giving it half effort is nothing but talk.

"If" he doesn't sulk all season, then you might get those sacks.

Ellis' productivity is not a sure thing either.

 

[Alexander]

Oh just stop!

I think that is a great question.

Ellis has always come up small when it counted most, particularly at the end of the season or late in games.

Name the pivotal sack he has had. Of the eight he gets a year, how many are truly impressive and made you sit back and admire? How many times did he sack the QB on a pivotal drive?

If you can name one, I will be very impressed.

 

[Alexander]

For a decade we've been struggling to find a pass rush.

And what player has been part of that struggle for ten years?

Last year we had what 37? And people thought that was weak (which to a certain extent it was) and now what we get is, "Oh don't worry we easily make up the sacks of Ellis and Glover... not a problem". My arse we can.

Eight sacks is not a great output. It just seems like it because we have been so poor at getting to the passer. Four sacks a piece out of two other players (remember, Ogbogu had 4.5 in 2004) and you have replaced this vaunted output from Greg Ellis.

Just for grins let's look at a post Ellis/Glover defense and the number of sacks I believe this defense will generate... and I remind you that Purcells doesn't like to blitz so don't try conning me into believing that Roy Williams is going to have 6 sacks... it ain't happenin.

Ware 12 sacks
Spears 3 sacks
Ferguson 2 sacks
Canty 4 sacks
Johnson/Stanley 1 sack
Ratliff 3 sacks
Carpenter 3 sacks
Hatcher 2 sacks
Brady 2 sacks
Ayodele 2 sacks
Roy Williams 2 sacks
Newman 1 sack
Henry 1 sack

That totals 38 sacks which isn't anything to write home about. And I think I was pretty kind to Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher and the 4 sacks attributable to the 2 inside backers. I don't see us hitting 38 sacks.

So an unmotivated Ellis is just going to match his best career sack output simply "because"? You are assuming Ellis decides he wants to play. I am not convinced he would be.

If Ellis is gone sacks are going to be a challenge again for this team.

It's been a challenge with him as well.