Rumor: Shaneil Jenkins has knee injury

[speedkilz88]

So glad Mayowa makes his debut tonight.

 

[Sydla]

There have been a number of FA's and draft picks spent on the DL the last 3 years.

Again, it's not DL. It's DE. I think DT is in good shape.

And no, when the front office comes out in February and says that pass rush was a big issue for this team and needs to be fixed, I don't consider signing a guy Oakland wouldn't match and then taking a 4th round DE, addressing the need.

Maybe I am just out on a limb here on this. But I don't consider throwing later round picks and signing bargain bin FAs as addressing a known problem.

 

[UTmodisette]

Sounds like you're twisting reality in a vain effort to shoehorn inconsistant actions into a consistant narrative. Save yourself the effort.

Sorry that I don't believe signing Hardy to a 1-year deal and barely looking at Vernon in free agency qualifies as going against their plan of building through the draft. The two biggest signings Dallas has done in the past couple of years was Hardy on a 1-year deal and Melton on a deal that could be cut after 1 year. I don't see how that is inconsistent with not wanting dead money on the cap.

 

[Sydla]

No, the solution is to keep plugging away at the draft so that way Dallas doesn't overpay in free agency for an average-above average pass rusher. Dallas wants to use that money on resigning our own elite players, not overpay for average players to help fill a hole. The Cedric Thornton signing is the type of contract you can expect Dallas to give out during free agency in the future.

No one has suggested they should have spent $70MM on Vernon or whatever he got. So people are setting up strawman arguments to defend a half assed approached to fixing the DE spot. There were guys out there, on friendly deals, that would have improved our situation at defensive.

Mario Williams signed a Thornton-esque contract. 2 years, Dolphins can cut him after this season and only take a $2MM cap hit. That's a team friendly deal that would not have prevented the Cowboys from signing some of their own players down the road.

Robert Ayers would have also given us a little stability at DE. He signed a team friendly deal in Tampa where they can cut him after this year for no cap hit according to Spotrac.

Freeney would arguably be the best pass rushing end on our team at his age other than say Lawrence. His deal was for $1MM. That's it.

Are these guys JJ Watt? Of course not. But all three are likely better than most the DEs we will trot out come opening night. And all 3 were cheap, short term contracts that wouldn't have hamstrung us down the road.

 

[Sydla]

So glad Mayowa makes his debut tonight.

He's really the hope for some real edge pressure at this point. At least until Lawrence and Gregory get back after their suspensions. With Tapper out with a back issue and Irving battling an injury himself, all eyes on Mayowa now.

 

[Stash]

Sorry that I don't believe signing Hardy to a 1-year deal and barely looking at Vernon in free agency qualifies as going against their plan of building through the draft. The two biggest signings Dallas has done in the past couple of years was Hardy on a 1-year deal and Melton on a deal that could be cut after 1 year. I don't see how that is inconsistent with not wanting dead money on the cap.

So you're contending that Hardy was signed with the express intent of playing on a one year only deal and that the team never had any intention of re-signing him? Good luck. Again, you're reaching in vain, save yourself the effort.

 

[4lifecowboy]

So you're contending that Hardy was signed with the express intent of playing on a one year only deal and that the team never had any intention of re-signing him? Good luck. Again, you're reaching in vain, save yourself the effort.

Well the fact that it was a one year deal says exactly that. They may have hoped it worked out long term but they strongly sensed it may not evidently.

 

[UTmodisette]

So you're contending that Hardy was signed with the express intent of playing on a one year only deal and that the team never had any intention of re-signing him? Good luck. Again, you're reaching in vain, save yourself the effort.

If Hardy got 15 sacks, then maybe they sign him to a big deal. But these kinds of 1-year deals happen all the time in the NFL. Look at the Patriots when they signed Revis for a 1-year deal. He was their best CB, and helped them win a super bowl. Did they have any real intention on resigning him? Not with the kind of money guys like that get in free agency. It's not a reach to say NFL teams sign guys in free agency with the intent of only keeping them for 1 year.

 

[Stash]

Well the fact that it was a one year deal says exactly that. They may have hoped it worked out long term but they strongly sensed it may not evidently.

It sure doesn't show long term intent.

You should set the owner straight.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-jones-cowboys-want-extension-with-greg-hardy

 

[Stash]

If Hardy got 15 sacks, then maybe they sign him to a big deal. But these kinds of 1-year deals happen all the time in the NFL. Look at the Patriots when they signed Revis for a 1-year deal. He was their best CB, and helped them win a super bowl. Did they have any real intention on resigning him? Not with the kind of money guys like that get in free agency. It's not a reach to say NFL teams sign guys in free agency with the intent of only keeping them for 1 year.

It is in the case of Hardy, as you were claiming.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-jones-cowboys-want-extension-with-greg-hardy

 

[Blackspider214]

Too late for Freeney. He's in Atlanta.

Front office botched that one.

Don't tell some people this. They tried to tell us how he was not going to be of any help. And we were good with what we have. If Freeney was here, he would no doubt be our best DLineman and it would not even be close.

When you are upset because average at best DLineman are getting injured, that's very telling to just how bad your DL situation is. This injury should not mean much if we handled that position a lot better.

 

[CATCH17]

"Knee injury"

 

[UTmodisette]

It is in the case of Hardy, as you were claiming.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-jones-cowboys-want-extension-with-greg-hardy

And yet they didn't resign him, just like they didn't resign Murray when they said they would like to get a deal done with him. I just don't think saying you are interested in resigning a guy proves they don't have a plan of not over spending in free agency, especially when they don't actually resign the guy.

 

[TheCount]

Again, it's not DL. It's DE. I think DT is in good shape.

And no, when the front office comes out in February and says that pass rush was a big issue for this team and needs to be fixed, I don't consider signing a guy Oakland wouldn't match and then taking a 4th round DE, addressing the need.

Maybe I am just out on a limb here on this. But I don't consider throwing later round picks and signing bargain bin FAs as addressing a known problem.

Who would you have signed/drafted?

 

[Stash]

And yet they didn't resign him, just like they didn't resign Murray when they said they would like to get a deal done with him. I just don't think saying you are interested in resigning a guy proves they don't have a plan of not over spending in free agency, especially when they don't actually resign the guy.

It certainly disproves your contention that they had a plan where they were worried about "dead cap" money.

You're looking for rhyme and reason where it doesn't exist. There is no Master Plan when it comes to the defensive line, despite people hoping there was. They've gone down multiple different avenues, in free agency and the draft in an effort to fix things. And thus far, it hasn't worked.

The two key moves from last year - Hardy and Gregory - blew up in their faces. But their reactions to those mistakes haven't been anything great either, and in the views of many of us, woefully insufficent, as is bearing itself out right now.

 

[Sydla]

Who would you have signed/drafted?

IMO, they should have gone after Ayers or Williams in free agency. Add at least one vet to an inexperienced group of DEs

Think about it this way. The front office came out and said the pass rush was not good enough. At that time, when you looked at the roster, you had only one DE on your team that had any high level experience and showed he could be a quality DE in this league - Lawrence. Then you had some upside guys in Irving and Gregory, but both were complete unknowns.

So I would have definitely brought in a vet like Williams or Ayers and said so at that time in free agency. Both signed team friend deals. I still might have gone after Mayowa simply because he's a high ceiling guy but again, if you had a vet in there, it helps mitigate the risk.

I don't have an issue with Tapper. He was a pet cat of mine. I wanted him in the 3rd round so it's great we got him where he was. I also would have been all over Freeney as a pass rush specialist.

Tell me you wouldn't feel better about the DEs this year if you had a mix of young, high ceiling guys to go with some vets?

Assuming 11 DL - 6 DEs and 5 DTs.............. how would you have felt about the DL and pass rush now if this was your 11 say come October (after the suspensions)?

DE - Ayers/Williams, Lawrence, Mayowa, Tapper, Freeney, Gregory
NT - McClain, Thornton
3 Tech - Crawford, Collins and Irving (as a flex guy like J. Crawford that can play some DE too).

 

[Zimmy Lives]

After four pages of random discussions, I just need to know one thing: Is he is, or is he ain't? Hurt, that is.

 

[UTmodisette]

It certainly disproves your contention that they had a plan where they were worried about "dead cap" money.

You're looking for rhyme and reason where it doesn't exist. There is no Master Plan when it comes to the defensive line, despite people hoping there was. They've gone down multiple different avenues, in free agency and the draft in an effort to fix things. And thus far, it hasn't worked.

The two key moves from last year - Hardy and Gregory - blew up in their faces. But their reactions to those mistakes haven't been anything great either, and in the views of many of us, woefully insufficent, as is bearing itself out right now.

We just fundamentally disagree on what qualifies as a plan. You say that they obviously don't have a plan because they have gone into free agency and the draft. My contention is that none of what they have done so far has gone against their ultimate philosophy of not overpaying guys in free agency so that way they can spend their money on resigning their own elite players. Do I believe their plan has worked at DE? Obviously not yet as Dallas is counting on Lawrence to be a star rusher, and Irving and Mayowa to be starters when they haven't proven it yet. None of this means Dallas doesn't have a plan though. Do the Patriots have a plan for their Oline weakness, or did they just get a great coach who they hope can coach up their unproven guys. Do the Packers have a plan at MLB, or are they just ignoring their biggest weakness for years? Having a weakness of your football team does not mean the front office doesn't have a plan to fix it.

 

[CowboyChris]

After four pages of random discussions, I just need to know one thing: Is he is, or is he ain't? Hurt, that is.

makes 2 of us

 

[Stash]

The thing is that in order to sign those guys Dallas would have had to restructure current contracts in order to fit them I'm, so you can't claim it doesn't hinder future salary cap space.

I never have claimed that. And they would have done that to sign Vernon too, and they obviously knew that or they would have never looked at him at all. The fact that they did says they were willing.

Freeney is the guy I get being upset about since he is so cheap. In his case I would have to think Dallas either thought he would be available after training camp like he was last year, or that they don't value

Either one I feel is a mistake. But I agree on Freeney. He was an established, proven vet looking for work, a good leader and locker room guy, and they passed. Mistake.

We just fundamentally disagree on what qualifies as a plan. You say that they obviously don't have a plan because they have gone into free agency and the draft. My contention is that none of what they have done so far has gone against their ultimate philosophy of not overpaying guys in free agency so that way they can spend their money on resigning their own elite players. Do I believe their plan has worked at DE? Obviously not yet as Dallas is counting on Lawrence to be a star rusher, and Irving and Mayowa to be starters when they haven't proven it yet. None of this means Dallas doesn't have a plan though. Do the Patriots have a plan for their Oline weakness, or did they just get a great coach who they hope can coach up their unproven guys. Do the Packers have a plan at MLB, or are they just ignoring their biggest weakness for years? Having a weakness of your football team does not mean the front office doesn't have a plan to fix it.

A plan requires some form of a consistant approach. None of the Cowboys' actions have shown any form of consistency. Ever since they've moved back to the 4-3 defense, they've been in scramble mode, throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick. To date, most of not all, have fallen off of that wall.

They paid Greg Hardy $11 million last year. If there was any Master Plan, that money would have instead been stashed away and rolled over for the future. The fact is that they thought they were one of two pieces away (as they often do) and they rolled the dice on a proven, but troubled pass rusher. After two months, things were working so well that they were talking openly about a long term deal. And then things blew up and the differences became irreconcilable.

They drafted Randy Gregory thinking that they could get a top pass rusher on the cheap because of past mistakes. That's a fool of the dice, that's not a plan. And again, that risk blew up in their faces.

Both of those mistakes is what's gotten us to where we now are.