Rumor: Shaneil Jenkins has knee injury

[TheCount]

IMO, they should have gone after Ayers or Williams in free agency. Add at least one vet to an inexperienced group of DEs

Think about it this way. The front office came out and said the pass rush was not good enough. At that time, when you looked at the roster, you had only one DE on your team that had any high level experience and showed he could be a quality DE in this league - Lawrence. Then you had some upside guys in Irving and Gregory, but both were complete unknowns.

So I would have definitely brought in a vet like Williams or Ayers and said so at that time in free agency. Both signed team friend deals. I still might have gone after Mayowa simply because he's a high ceiling guy but again, if you had a vet in there, it helps mitigate the risk.

I don't have an issue with Tapper. He was a pet cat of mine. I wanted him in the 3rd round so it's great we got him where he was. I also would have been all over Freeney as a pass rush specialist.

Tell me you wouldn't feel better about the DEs this year if you had a mix of young, high ceiling guys to go with some vets?

Assuming 11 DL - 6 DEs and 5 DTs.............. how would you have felt about the DL and pass rush now if this was your 11 say come October (after the suspensions)?

DE - Ayers/Williams, Lawrence, Mayowa, Tapper, Freeney, Gregory
NT - McClain, Thornton
3 Tech - Crawford, Collins and Irving (as a flex guy like J. Crawford that can play some DE too).

Let's rule Dwight Freeney out, because it's clear the team has no interest in him. He's a very one-dimensional, aging player at this point and the team clearly wants to go younger on the DL.

You're saying that Ayers alone would have made you take the DL situation from Fail to Pass?

 

[UTmodisette]

A plan requires some form of a consistant approach. None of the Cowboys' actions have shown any form of consistency. Ever since they've moved back to the 4-3 defense, they've been in scramble mode, throwing things at the wall and hoping they stick. To date, most of not all, have fallen off of that wall.

They drafted Randy Gregory thinking that they could get a top pass rusher on the cheap because of past mistakes. That's a fool of the dice, that's not a plan. And again, that risk blew up in their faces.

Both of those mistakes is what's gotten us to where we now are.

Yes Gregory has been a failure, but his issues aren't very different than what Tyron Mathieu had before his draft. And he has turned out to be a star. The Patriots took a risk on an injury prone DT Easley in the first round a couple of years ago, now he's not even on their team. Every team takes risks, and every team has weaknesses on their team because not all of their risks/draft choices worked out. You can't point to every team's personel failures as a proof of a lack of planning.

 

[Sydla]

Let's rule Dwight Freeney out, because it's clear the team has no interest in him. He's a very one-dimensional, aging player at this point and the team clearly wants to go younger on the DL.

You're saying that Ayers alone would have made you take the DL situation from Fail to Pass?

That's my point. I think it was a mistake to not look at Freeney, who was both cheap and arguably the best pass rusher we could have on our roster at this point.

And I think a guy like Ayers or Williams helps our current situation at DE. They are taking way too many risks on unproven youngsters that if they don't develop, there is a HUGE hole at DE that could undo what might be a deep playoff run (given our offense being so great).

So yeah, I think the DE situation would have been much more tolerable if they had a proven vet in here and then Freeney as a third down guy. I think they completely botched the DE position this offseason.

 

[Stash]

Yes Gregory has been a failure, but his issues aren't very different than what Tyron Mathieu had before his draft. And he has turned out to be a star. The Patriots took a risk on an injury prone DT Easley in the first round a couple of years ago, now he's not even on their team. Every team takes risks, and every team has weaknesses on their team because not all of their risks/draft choices worked out. You can't point to every team's personel failures as a proof of a lack of planning.

No, but those teams may have done it with one player, but they didn't do it with multiple players like Dallas did with both Hardy and Gregory. Everybody does take risks at one time or another, and everybody misses. But I don't think that anybody does it more or misses more than Jerry and the Cowboys have.

And because at one point 'the plan' depended on guys like McClain, Hardy, and Gregory, they're now left scrambling for answers. And that's no plan at all...

 

[Stash]

Let's rule Dwight Freeney out, because it's clear the team has no interest in him.

Is that supposed to absolve them of that mistake?

He's a very one-dimensional, aging player at this point and the team clearly wants to go younger on the DL.

One dimension is better than no dimension, which is what we now have. Criticizing a guy for just being a pass rusher?

 

[Sydla]

And FWIW, it appears both Williams and Ayers have been looking good in their respective camps.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

After four pages of random discussions, I just need to know one thing: Is he is, or is he ain't? Hurt, that is.

Well, that would be no fun. Isn't it much more interesting reading comments by people with agendas? I like those with the anti-front office agenda. Those are the most fun. They freaked out about the backup QB position for months and then disappeared as soon as Dak threw his first pass. Now they need something else to get their anti-whatever fix and the DL fits the bill right now. What better to fixate on than some DL no one ever heard of who started to show promise in two preseason games and then go off on some tangent.

 

[Sydla]

Well, that would be no fun. Isn't it much more interesting reading comments by people with agendas? I like those with the anti-front office agenda. Those are the most fun. They freaked out about the backup QB position for months and then disappeared as soon as Dak threw his first pass. Now they need something else to get their anti-whatever fix and the DL fits the bill right now. What better to fixate on than some DL no one ever heard of who started to show promise in two preseason games and then go off on some tangent.

So, the DL is in great shape?

 

[Stash]

So, the DL is in great shape?

Oh no, you used the term "DL" and left him the out to talk about the DT position while trying desperately to not talk about the obvious issues at DE.

 

[Vanilla2]

And FWIW, it appears both Williams and Ayers have been looking good in their respective camps.

And it sounds like Freeney has a back strain per PFT

 

[TwoCentPlain]

So, the DL is in great shape?

You tell me. Maybe it is. Is the backup QB position in great shape? People had conniptions after Kellen Moore broke his leg. Don't see any crying over the backup QB position a few weeks later.

 

[Sydla]

And it sounds like Freeney has a back strain per PFT

Him and Tapper could have shared a hot tub together!

 

[Sydla]

You tell me. Maybe it is. Is the backup QB position in great shape? People had conniptions after Kellen Moore broke his leg. Don't see any crying over the backup QB position a few weeks later.

You are the one who seemingly has a problem with people talking about deficiencies along the DL (notably DE) so why don't you tell us why they are wrong to make that a topic on a football message board?

 

[TheCount]

That's my point. I think it was a mistake to not look at Freeney, who was both cheap and arguably the best pass rusher we could have on our roster at this point.

And I think a guy like Ayers or Williams helps our current situation at DE. They are taking way too many risks on unproven youngsters that if they don't develop, there is a HUGE hole at DE that could undo what might be a deep playoff run (given our offense being so great).

So yeah, I think the DE situation would have been much more tolerable if they had a proven vet in here and then Freeney as a third down guy. I think they completely botched the DE position this offseason.

Tolerable on paper maybe. It would change the injuries or the suspensions. Even with Freeney signed, you still don't have a starting DE.

Ayers might have been a guy to chase, but then you're giving him a multi-year deal knowing that the ideal scenario is Lawrence and Gregory starting for the foreseeable future.

Is that supposed to absolve them of that mistake?



One dimension is better than no dimension, which is what we now have. Criticizing a guy for just being a pass rusher?

Why didn't the Cardinals resign Freeney?

 

[Stash]

Why didn't the Cardinals resign Freeney?

Because they actually made the effort to upgrade the position and traded for a 12.5 sack guy in Chandler Jones. You didn't know about that?

 

[TwoCentPlain]

You are the one who seemingly has a problem with people talking about deficiencies along the DL (notably DE) so why don't you tell us why they are wrong to make that a topic on a football message board?

Deficiencies along the DL (notable DE)? Right now, we can only speak of potential deficiencies. They haven't even played a meaningful game yet. Are you certain there is a deficiency? If certain players step up, there are no deficiencies and there never were. I feel confident some players will step up. Jenkins shows promise and I hope his knee is ok. We will see soon about Maelik Collins and Tapper and if they have 'it.' I am excited about Thornton joining the DL. Two Crawfords and Irving and Mayowa. Lawrence will be back game 5. I think they will be good if they can stay healthy.

People cried over the 'deficiency' at backup QB for months, and screamed like babies when Kellen Moore broke a leg. Was there an actual deficiency? No! Why? Because Dak stepped up and the crybabies shut up.

 

[Sydla]

Tolerable on paper maybe. It would change the injuries or the suspensions. Even with Freeney signed, you still don't have a starting DE.

Ayers might have been a guy to chase, but then you're giving him a multi-year deal knowing that the ideal scenario is Lawrence and Gregory starting for the foreseeable future.



Why didn't the Cardinals resign Freeney?

Cardinals only signed Freeney last year because they lost a guy to injury. They didn't need him because everyone was back healthy this year. They also added Chandler Jones. We, unfortunately, don't have the good fortune of having he same type of edge players the Cards have.

And again, the Ayers contract is a total false argument (people make the same one about Mario Williams). So if Gregory and Lawrence are the DEs of the future and prove it this year, if you had signed Ayers for a similar contract he got in Tampa, you could have cut him this year for NO CAP DAMAGE. He carries no dead money after this season. Mario Williams also carries a minimal dead money hit of $2MM in 2017 if you cut him. So......... in both cases, Ayers and Williams were perfect short term vet answers at DE when you had only ONE proven defensive end coming back this season.

 

[Sydla]

Deficiencies along the DL (notable DE)? Right now, we can only speak of potential deficiencies. They haven't even played a meaningful game yet. Are you certain there is a deficiency? If certain players step up, there are no deficiencies and there never were. I feel confident some players will step up. Jenkins shows promise and I hope his knee is ok. We will see soon about Maelik Collins and Tapper and if they have 'it.' I am excited about Thornton joining the DL. Two Crawfords and Irving and Mayowa. Lawrence will be back game 5. I think they will be good if they can stay healthy.

People cried over the 'deficiency' at backup QB for months, and screamed like babies when Kellen Moore broke a leg. Was there an actual deficiency? No! Why? Because Dak stepped up and the crybabies shut up.

That's what we are talking about. The potential deficiency. That's what you do in sports and on sports message boards. You talk about the team - good things, bad things, potential issues, potential solutions. I didn't realize that you weren't allowed to talk about issues that could face the team and possibly prevent the team from making a SB run before the season started.

And for the record, I am fine with DT. They have a chance to be very good, especially if McClain can stay healthy and we can get a real rotation going there. The problem is on the outside. The reality is when you try to solve a major problem with as many unknowns as we are trying to solve it with, that usually doesn't end well.

 

[UTmodisette]

I have a feeling by the end of the season that Irving, Lawrence, and T Crawford will make everyone forget about our pass rushing woes. I'm not saying those guys make an elite Dline, but I don't think they will be viewed as the colossal failure that everyone views them now.

 

[TheCount]

Because they actually made the effort to upgrade the position and traded for a 12.5 sack guy in Chandler Jones. You didn't know about that?

You know that's not the whole story.

Freeney didn't even make a mil last year, why would they A) Trade for another pass rusher B) Not resign their sack leader from the previous season, especially one that's dirt cheap.