Rumor: Shaneil Jenkins has knee injury

[Stash]

You know that's not the whole story.

Freeney didn't even make a mil last year, why would they A) Trade for another pass rusher B) Not resign their sack leader from the previous season, especially one that's dirt cheap.

I answered you. Because they upgraded. Unlike this team. It sounds like you want an answer you're not getting? One that somehow makes Freeney look bad. Maybe you should provide that answer?

It sounds like you're trying to make Freeney seem like less of a player because the Cardinals didn't resign him. If that's your case, you had better make it about each and every other free agent that changes teams too.

 

[Sydla]

You know that's not the whole story.

Freeney didn't even make a mil last year, why would they A) Trade for another pass rusher B) Not resign their sack leader from the previous season, especially one that's dirt cheap.

You are trying to make it far more complicated than it need to be. Freeney was a mid-season signing after the Cards had a season ending injury. That player was healthy in the offseason and the Cards went out and grabbed Jones, who is younger and likely better than Freeney.

If we had added a proven, stud edge player like Jones ourselves this offseason, we wouldn't need Freeney either.

I know what you are trying to do. Because the Cards didn't bring Freeney back, ergo, he must not be that good and how could he help us. Using that logic, should we wonder how good Thornton is given the Eagles didn't bother to beat our offer, an offer that was frankly quite reasonable for a DT?

 

[Stash]

I have a feeling by the end of the season that Irving, Lawrence, and T Crawford will make everyone forget about our pass rushing woes. I'm not saying those guys make an elite Dline, but I don't think they will be viewed as the colossal failure that everyone views them now.

Speaking for myself, I'm not using the term "colossal failure", that looks like hyperbole and exaggeration in an effort to make an argument that's not there.

I have concerns. Concerns going in, and concerns now that a good number of these candidates to step up have instead stepped out.

Mayowa hasn't played yet. Tyrone Crawford can't stay on the field for a week. McClain has missed time. This is our first look at Maliek Collins, and Irving is out with a groin injury with no return date yet. Oh yeah, and Charles Tapper isn't on the field and there aren't any reports on if or when he'll be back. And now there's talk of a knee injury for 'Bronco'.

Given this list, is anyone wrong to be concerned about a position that was already questionable going into the season? Is that out of bounds?

 

[TheCount]

Cardinals only signed Freeney last year because they lost a guy to injury. They didn't need him because everyone was back healthy this year. They also added Chandler Jones. We, unfortunately, don't have the good fortune of having he same type of edge players the Cards have.

And again, the Ayers contract is a total false argument (people make the same one about Mario Williams). So if Gregory and Lawrence are the DEs of the future and prove it this year, if you had signed Ayers for a similar contract he got in Tampa, you could have cut him this year for NO CAP DAMAGE. He carries no dead money after this season. Mario Williams also carries a minimal dead money hit of $2MM in 2017 if you cut him. So......... in both cases, Ayers and Williams were perfect short term vet answers at DE when you had only ONE proven defensive end coming back this season.

Arizona had 5 more sacks than we did last year. They do not have some sort of embarrassment of riches when it comes to pass rushers, and they still let Freeney walk.

They reason Ayers doesn't have dead money in 2017 is because he's making almost 8m this year alone.

The fact that you think the team didn't consider all these guys and all these scenarios is ridiculous. You think they didn't talk about Freeney, Ayers and Williams? You think after they found out about the suspensions they didn't talk about if they needed to make moves?

You might disagree, but if they talked about it and decided Freeney was a good move, they'd have made it.

 

[Stash]

You are trying to make it far more complicated than it need to be. Freeney was a mid-season signing after the Cards had a season ending injury. That player was healthy in the offseason and the Cards went out and grabbed Jones, who is younger and likely better than Freeney.

If we had added a proven, stud edge player like Jones ourselves this offseason, we wouldn't need Freeney either.

He's trying to make Freeney appear lesser by pointing to the fact that the Cards didn't resign him. If that's an indictment, you'd better indict every player who's not re-signed by their current team.

 

[Sydla]

Speaking for myself, I'm not using the term "colossal failure", that looks like hyperbole and exaggeration in an effort to make an argument that's not there.

I have concerns. Concerns going in, and concerns now that a good number of these candidates to step up have instead stepped out.

Mayowa hasn't played yet. Tyrone Crawford can't stay on the field for a week. McClain has missed time. This is our first look at Maliek Collins, and Irving is out with a groin injury with no return date yet. Oh yeah, and Charles Tapper isn't on the field and there aren't any reports on if or when he'll be back. And now there's talk of a knee injury for 'Bronco'.

Given this list, is anyone wrong to be concerned about a position that was already questionable going into the season? Is that out of bounds?

Exactly.

DE looks positively mediocre at this point. Like 30 sack mediocre which is what we were trying to improve upon from last year. Awful or failure would be a team that registers like low 20 sacks. We are certainly better than that.

However, IMO, when the front office comes out and suggests that the pass rush was unacceptable and is a focus for us this offseason and then they compile a depth chart that has as many questions as it has and is questionable to be even better than what we've had the previous years, I would deem that as a "failure" on the front office's part.

 

[TheCount]

You are trying to make it far more complicated than it need to be. Freeney was a mid-season signing after the Cards had a season ending injury. That player was healthy in the offseason and the Cards went out and grabbed Jones, who is younger and likely better than Freeney.

If we had added a proven, stud edge player like Jones ourselves this offseason, we wouldn't need Freeney either.

I know what you are trying to do. Because the Cards didn't bring Freeney back, ergo, he must not be that good and how could he help us. Using that logic, should we wonder how good Thornton is given the Eagles didn't bother to beat our offer, an offer that was frankly quite reasonable for a DT?

You make the discussion complex and simple as it pleases you.

None of what you said changes the fact that they Cards let an 8-sack guy walk. If Freeney is as good as what you're selling, you gladly pay him a million to sit on your bench if you're the Cardinals, even if he never plays a snap.

If Lawrence and Gregory were able to play, we wouldn't be talking about any of these guys either.

 

[Stash]

Arizona had 5 more sacks than we did last year. They do not have some sort of embarrassment of riches when it comes to pass rushers, and they still let Freeney walk.

But unlike us, they actually made a significant, concerted effort to address it.

You might disagree, but if they talked about it and decided Freeney was a good move, they'd have made it.

And you're right, we do disagree. It sounds like because they didn't decide to do it, that automatically makes it the right decision for you?

 

[TheCount]

He's trying to make Freeney appear lesser by pointing to the fact that the Cards didn't resign him. If that's an indictment, you'd better indict every player who's not re-signed by their current team.

I'm not making anyone sound lesser. I'm stating the simple fact that Freeney was near retirement till Atlanta, the worst pass rush team in the league, called him.

Dallas wasn't alone in passing on Freeney, so maybe it's worth considering that they considered the move and passed for football reasons that actually make sense and there aren't a bunch of idiots sitting in meeting rooms around the league that have no idea what a prize Freeney is.

 

[TheCount]

But unlike us, they actually made a significant, concerted effort to address it.



And you're right, we do disagree. It sounds like because they didn't decide to do it, that automatically makes it the right decision for you?

It's the right decision because I agree with it, not because they made it. Just like to you it's the wrong decision because you disagree with it. Let's not pretend either of us have the answer.

 

[Sydla]

Arizona had 5 more sacks than we did last year. They do not have some sort of embarrassment of riches when it comes to pass rushers, and they still let Freeney walk.

They reason Ayers doesn't have dead money in 2017 is because he's making almost 8m this year alone.

The fact that you think the team didn't consider all these guys and all these scenarios is ridiculous. You think they didn't talk about Freeney, Ayers and Williams? You think after they found out about the suspensions they didn't talk about if they needed to make moves?

You might disagree, but if they talked about it and decided Freeney was a good move, they'd have made it.

Oh I think they kicked the tires, at least on Ayers. I think they went cheap on trying to fix the DE spot. And clearly they didn't think Freeney was worth it. But that's the problem I have. I think they have an overinflated opinion of where they were at when it came to the DE spot.

That's the point of my contention. I struggle to understand how one could come out and claim that the pass rush was a big offseason priority (and the Jones' clearly said this) and then they spent barely a dime in fixing it.

I hope they are right and I look like a fool.

And yes, the Cards have better edge players than we do. It's bizarre to argue otherwise.

 

[Stash]

You make the discussion complex and simple as it pleases you.

None of what you said changes the fact that they Cards let an 8-sack guy walk. If Freeney is as good as what you're selling, you gladly pay him a million to sit on your bench if you're the Cardinals, even if he never plays a snap.

It also doesn't change the fact that the Cowboys had a shot at a guy who would have led the team in sacks last year and failed to act on it.

What the Cards decided to do has nothing to do with Dallas' failure to address their own needs. And it certainly doesn't justify it.

If Lawrence and Gregory were able to play, we wouldn't be talking about any of these guys either.

But they're not, and they weren't when Freeney was available either.

 

[Stash]

It's the right decision because I agree with it, not because they made it. Just like to you it's the wrong decision because you disagree with it. Let's not pretend either of us have the answer.

I'm not. I'm just not assuming the Cowboys made the right decision. I'm watching the ones they did make continue to blow up in their faces and make them look like fools.

 

[Sydla]

You make the discussion complex and simple as it pleases you.

None of what you said changes the fact that they Cards let an 8-sack guy walk. If Freeney is as good as what you're selling, you gladly pay him a million to sit on your bench if you're the Cardinals, even if he never plays a snap.

If Lawrence and Gregory were able to play, we wouldn't be talking about any of these guys either.

Oy.

Eagles let a good run stuffing DT walk. If Thornton was this good, certainly the Eagles would have signed him and had him as a key reserve in their new 4-3 defense.

See how we can play this all day long?

 

[UTmodisette]

Speaking for myself, I'm not using the term "colossal failure", that looks like hyperbole and exaggeration in an effort to make an argument that's not there.

I have concerns. Concerns going in, and concerns now that a good number of these candidates to step up have instead stepped out.

Mayowa hasn't played yet. Tyrone Crawford can't stay on the field for a week. McClain has missed time. This is our first look at Maliek Collins, and Irving is out with a groin injury with no return date yet. Oh yeah, and Charles Tapper isn't on the field and there aren't any reports on if or when he'll be back. And now there's talk of a knee injury for 'Bronco'.

Given this list, is anyone wrong to be concerned about a position that was already questionable going into the season? Is that out of bounds?

Having concerns are more than fair, DE is the most questionable position on the team, especially when Lawrenece isn't available. I just think people are ignoring the upside of the pass rush when they are questioning it. Also lets not freak out over training camp injuries. The only ones that seem like a regular season issue is the vague seriousness surrounding Jenkins, and the lack of reps for Tapper.

 

[TheCount]

Oy.

Eagles let a good run stuffing DT walk. If Thornton was this good, certainly the Eagles would have signed him and had him as a key reserve in their new 4-3 defense.

See how we can play this all day long?

We can go around as long as you like. Still doesn't change the fact that The Cardinals let their sack leader walk in favor of trading for another guy, all while they were in the bottom third in sacks last year. They are not a stacked pass rushing team, they simply didn't think Freeney was worth keeping.

 

[BAT]

We can go around as long as you like. Still doesn't change the fact that The Cardinals let their sack leader walk in favor of trading for another guy, all while they were in the bottom third in sacks last year. They are not a stacked pass rushing team, they simply didn't think Freeney was worth keeping.

Cowboys let their leading sack rusher leave in FA too thinking his best days were behind him. Ware went on to win SB with Denver and should have been Co-MVP of that game.

Cowboys were obviously wrong about Wares value at time. These organizational decisions to dump aging vets are not always correct.

 

[TheCount]

Cowboys let their leading sack rusher leave in FA too thinking his best days were behind him. Ware went on to win SB with Denver and should have been Co-MVP of that game.

Cowboys were obviously wrong about Wares value at time. These organizational decisions to dump aging vets are not always correct.

Ware was cut, he wasn't a FA.

I said nothing about organizational decisions always being correct.

Difference is when Ware was cut, he could have found another job in minutes. Freeney almost retired, so we're not just talking about a Cardinals decision.

 

[dallasdave]

Cowboys let their leading sack rusher leave in FA too thinking his best days were behind him. Ware went on to win SB with Denver and should have been Co-MVP of that game.

Cowboys were obviously wrong about Wares value at time. These organizational decisions to dump aging vets are not always correct.

 

[dallasdave]

I've been reading some of the responses to your posts and I believe they don't really understand what you mean by fixing the DE spot. I agree with you.

I specifically would like the FO to spend money on a top 1-3 DE free agent or one that had double digit sacks in the last 3 years OR

Spend a high to mid first rd pick on. DE. If possible package together players and or picks to move up. I don't care about spending 3-7 th rd picks on the DE position. I don't want just bodies, and I don't want practice squad cast offs. Give me some premium ends.

Stop giving me Kias and Ford Fusions when I ask for Mercedes S550 or BMW 750 foos.

I would have signed Derek Wolf, Robert Ayers, Charles Johnson and Mario Williams this off season for cheap ( all of them had reasonable contracts) Get rid of Russell, Gregory, Mayowa, McAdoo. The funny thing is that all those dudes are actually practicing and playing and our collection I'd DEs aren't.