Running QBs

[noshame]

The pocket can be a dangerous place also

 

[quickccc]

Both have already been mentioned and rejected as running QBs by play design .

rejected by whom .?

 

[MyFairLady]

The pocket can be a dangerous place also

What would you rather do throw it down field or take off running knowing you can not slide and you need 10 yards for a first down? Thebpocket is of course dangerous but clearly running introduces even more risk in an already risky business.

 

[Blackrain]

rejected by whom .?

Its like who in their infinite wisdom has decided that you can only be considered a running QB if you have a certain # of running plays called for you . How can career yrds, attempts, and rushing TDs not be included as a criteria?

 

[Blackrain]

That was a while ago and I may not remember it that well but I feel like he made his plays running because they played a lot of shot gun and he would extend the plays but the primary goal was to pass the ball. Some shot gun draws mixed in. Making plays with your legs on passing plays that break down does not make you a running QB. It makes you a mobile QB. Plenty of mobile QBs have had massive success as have already been mentioned. If you are in the huddle and the play call comes in and the intent of the paly is to have the QB run with the ball then you are a running QB. If the play breaks down and you make the other team pay for not staying home on defense then you are a mobile QB.

As I remember it Landry did not implement the Shotgun till the 75 season . Roger ran for a lot of yrds from under the center and won us our 1st SB in 71 . If anything Landry did not want Roger to run let alone make up plays for him to do so .
But make no mistake Roger was a running QB and his ability to do so was part of what won him the job over Craig Morton . It was an intangible that moved the chains , won games and Morton could not compete with .

Being a running QB is about having the ability to elude defenders move the chains and score points . You could call a bunch of running plays for Tom Brady or either of the Mannings and its never going to make them a running QBs

Its not about play calling its about ability .

 

[noshame]

What would you rather do throw it down field or take off running knowing you can not slide and you need 10 yards for a first down? Thebpocket is of course dangerous but clearly running introduces even more risk in an already risky business.

How about bootlegs and roll outs?
I'm not saying make a RB out of him.
However if he's out of the pocket and there's a first down in front of him take it

 

[Havic]

Running QB's are fine, but I wouldn't offer them a 2nd contract. Especially a below average thrower like Lamar Jackson.

 

[Starforever]

Moving the goalpost but I give you 2 .......Mahomes and Wilson

How about Steve Young? He did a lot of running in his day.

 

[Blackrain]

How about Steve Young? He did a lot of running in his day.

You are probably the tenth guy to mention Steve Young as an example .

But the experts say no because all his runs were not designed , the fact he had the ability to run all over a defense move the chains and finished with close to 5k total rushing yrds has no bearing on his status .

What a hoot !!!!

 

[ryanbabs]

Steve young

Steve Young was a mobile QB but I wouldn’t call him a “running QB”. He had a hell of an arm and was very accurate in the pocket.

 

[MyFairLady]

I guess I would try to frame it like this. Guys like Steve Young and Roger Staubach played the way that they did because they could. Immensely talented in all aspects. If you tried to play that way with guys like RG3 or Hurts I do not think you would have as much success. That is why you move to an offense that features the planned QB run as a part of the base offense. For me that is where the term "rushing QB" would apply. It isn't necessarily a negative term to use when describing a player but it does imply that the player is somehow limited in other ways and therefore is restricted to running a certain style of offense. Roger is too good to be called a "rushing QB".

 

[joseephuss]

I guess I would try to frame it like this. Guys like Steve Young and Roger Staubach played the way that they did because they could. Immensely talented in all aspects. If you tried to play that way with guys like RG3 or Hurts I do not think you would have as much success. That is why you move to an offense that features the planned QB run as a part of the base offense. For me that is where the term "rushing QB" would apply. It isn't necessarily a negative term to use when describing a player but it does imply that the player is somehow limited in other ways and therefore is restricted to running a certain style of offense. Roger is too good to be called a "rushing QB".

I definitely think "running QB" or "rushing QB" is somewhat a negative term. Similar to a wide receiver be labeled as a "speed receiver". Both terms basically describe that the player is currently limited, but can do one thing very well. For the QB it is running the ball and for the wide receiver it is running very fast. For many guys, they never develop their games past those terms. Bobby Douglas never became a good passer or Alexander Wright never learned to run a good route or catch the ball. Other guys have gone on to evolve their game and improve all aspects required of their respective positions. That is what it takes for ultimate success. Growth. It can be done and has been done in the NFL.

 

[Silly]

I agree. I did like what the saints did with the two QB system. Every once in a while they would bring in the wildcat QB.

 

[MyFairLady]

I definitely think "running QB" or "rushing QB" is somewhat a negative term. Similar to a wide receiver be labeled as a "speed receiver". Both terms basically describe that the player is currently limited, but can do one thing very well. For the QB it is running the ball and for the wide receiver it is running very fast. For many guys, they never develop their games past those terms. Bobby Douglas never became a good passer or Alexander Wright never learned to run a good route or catch the ball. Other guys have gone on to evolve their game and improve all aspects required of their respective positions. That is what it takes for ultimate success. Growth. It can be done and has been done in the NFL.

Well said. I was trying to think of a good analogy. Speed receiver is a great example. Thanks.

 

[Pola_pe_a]

The running QB’s get hurt more argument is a myth. Stats show that there is no significant difference in injury rate based on running vs not running.


https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/
https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/
https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2021/mobile-quarterbacks-and-injury-rates#/

The highest injury rate for QB’s is on sacks within the pocket.

 

[terra]

The running QB’s get hurt more argument is a myth. Stats show that there is no significant difference in injury rate based on running vs not running.


https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/
https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2021/mobile-quarterbacks-and-injury-rates#/

The highest injury rate for QB’s is on sacks within the pocket.

Then why do pocket passers last much longer?
Brady, Brees, Mannings, etc.
You really think Lamar Jackson is going to last 10 more years?
This is a case where stats are manipulated to confuse people.

 

[Cowboyny]

Running QBs are all the rage in today’s NFL but with all of them its only a matter of time till they get hurt. Its bad enough when you are a pocket QB who has to run at times but when runs are part of the game plan and play calls its a long season to ask them to be around at year end when they are needed. Give me a QB with pocket awareness who can move around and occasionally run when necessary any day.

Year's ago those dual threats were more legitimate QB's first, kind of like John Elway, Steve Young, but what is the trend now is to draft runners and develop them as passers. Lamar Jackson is a perfect example of this. Year's ago if a team wanted to run the read option, you hit the QB as hard as possible and make them think twice about running it again. However, these QB's who have this ability are bigger, faster and more athletic these days. Sure they are still in harm's way, but they are better positioned to take on bugger hits.

Point is, having a dual threat QB in this era gives your team a huge advantage as defenses have to worry about more things. Yes, you can still win with a pocket QB, but they are easier to defend.

 

[MyFairLady]

The running QB’s get hurt more argument is a myth. Stats show that there is no significant difference in injury rate based on running vs not running.


https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/new-study-quarterbacks-that-run-most-are-not-injured-most/
https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2021/mobile-quarterbacks-and-injury-rates#/

The highest injury rate for QB’s is on sacks within the pocket.

The first study is pretty interesting but IMHO they are not really addressing the issue at hand. Mobile QBs and running QBs are not the same thing. Mobility can definitely keep you healthy if you are fast enough to avoid what would have otherwise been a sack. Avoid the hit and throw it away is good. Avoid the hit, scramble for a first down, slide and avoid punishment also a good thing. Definitely think the first study is very misleading. Look at the group of QBs that "run the most". They include scrambles. Russell Wilson is the perfect example of how this can be skewed. The guy slides whenever anyone comes near him. Do you think Cam Newton or Hurts would think it is fair to include him in the same category?

The second study is absolute nonsense. If you read it carefully it offers nothing to support either side of the argument.

Give me mobility in a QB all day every day but if you run a read option on 3rd and 5 and the QB keeps he is more at risk than a mobile QB who has dropped back into the pocket. He could still run. Heck it would be great if he did because he is probably gonna get the first down. Just make sure to slide and live to fight another day.

 

[CowboyFrog]

If you say running QB i think wishbone, 2 to 8 passes a game off of 90% running...there are no running QB's in the league, hell Lamar Jackson throws for more yards than he runs which makes calling him a running QB wierd. There are mobile QB's and as time passes they will rely more on "Pocket movement" and throwing because father time is undefeated.

 

[MyFairLady]

If you say running QB i think wishbone, 2 to 8 passes a game off of 90% running...there are no running QB's in the league, hell Lamar Jackson throws for more yards than he runs which makes calling him a running QB wierd. There are mobile QB's and as time passes they will rely more on "Pocket movement" and throwing because father time is undefeated.

In 2022 I would say that Fields, Hurts and Jackson are the only three 100% bonafide "rushing QBs". They have 160, 156 and 112 rush attempts respectively. Jackson is a bit lower because he has missed games. All of them average over 10 rush attempts per game. That is a lot and it is by design. It doesn't just happen out of no where because they are mobile. Coincidence or not all three are dealing with injuries.

Next you have Jones and Allen. They are borderline rushing QBs. Both average around 7.5 rush attempts per game. They mix in enough design QB rush plays, combined with their mobility, to make it a pretty big part of the offense. You can make a case that these guys are rushing QBs if you want to but it is IMHO debatable.

After that you have a ton of guys who I would say are just good athletes who will use their mobility to their advantage averaging around 5 attempts per game. Guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Murray, Lawrence, Herbert, etc. Many many guys in this group. Sadly Dak is no longer in this group at less than 4 rush attempts per game. This needs to climb up to 7.5 in the playoffs if you ask me but that is another story.

I would propose the following. If you average over 10 rush attempts per game you are a rushing QB. If you average around 7.5 you are highly mobile / borderline rushing QB. If you average around 5 rushing attempts per game you are highly mobile but not a rushing QB. If you average less than 5 you are a pocket passer bordering on statue.

I would be willing to wager that average the health and longevity of QBs that average over 10 rush attempts per game is not good. I would also wager that the average health and longevity of QBs that average around 5 rush attempts per game is good as long as they use the mobility to avoid hits, not invite them.