Running QBs

[DZSierra]

and historically those that lasted very long were very much the exception

Who was considered a running QB who didn't last very long? No different than a pocket passer that didn't last very long IMO.

 

[cowboybish]

OP has gotten me curious......so with a little research, here's an excellent article actually supporting his post. Although I'm still not sure/convinced all their injuries are linked to running vs classic pocket, the articles make a few interesting points. My thing is most, if not all are injuries waiting to happen and it doesn't matter if it's your classic dropback, running or mobile QB coz it's the nature of the position. For example, the article reference Hurts and Kyler Murray but Hurts injury was from a sack and Murray's no contact. The same injuries could have happened to any mobile or pocket QB as well.



https://www.deseret.com/2022/1/11/2...t-it-comes-at-a-price-cam-newton-kyler-murray

Running QBs are all the rage in the NFL, but it comes with a price
There was a time when coaches winced when they saw their quarterback run with the ball in the open field, but today it is almost commonplace
By Doug Robinson
Jan 11, 2022, 3:42pm EST

Excellent article and supports my post

 

[DZSierra]

Excellent article and supports my post

Ironic you pretty much quoted the article in your opening post LOL

 

[shabazz]

Not running QBs. Don't redefine the term.

Yup, it should be obvious the difference between Lamar Jackson’s style of play and Mahomes style.

 

[MyFairLady]

If someone tries to argue that a running QB is not more likely to get hurt than a pocket passer I recommend not getting involved in the discussion. It is clearly not worth the effort.

IMHO the pocket passer is clearly the best way to go but there are only about 6-8 of those on earth at any given time that will provide consistent playoff success. Go back and look at the QBs in the conference championship games. You will notice a theme for sure. It is plastered with the same people over and over. These are people that are consistently in the top 5 in QB ratings.

Having said that if you do not have one of those guys the running QB is a valid option. You can do well right out of the box with a rookie. The danger becomes longevity. I have always felt that if a team went all in on this approach and drafted multiple QBs fairly high and always had someone in reserve they could have sustainable success. The problem you would have is that you can not pay one of them 50 million per year. You would have to let him go and draft another. You would always have the benefit of having a QB on a team friendly rookie deal. The issue would be the investment of high draft picks on QBs year after year.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

He was a pocket passer and mostly ran out of nessesity.

Who qualifies as a running QB by your definition, if Steve Young and Russell Wilson don't? Have there been any prior to Lamar Jackson? Maybe Randall Cunningham? You're constraining your universe of candidates so tightly that your original question becomes meaningless because, by your definition, there have been very few running QBs who have had an opportunity to win a Super Bowl.

 

[shabazz]

Who qualifies as a running QB by your definition, if Steve Young and Russell Wilson don't? Have there been any prior to Lamar Jackson? Maybe Randall Cunningham? You're constraining your universe of candidates so tightly that your original question becomes meaningless because, by your definition, there have been very few running QBs who have had an opportunity to win a Super Bowl.

I would think that Michael Vick would be another running Qb by definition. I never considered Cunningham to be one although he could run effectively when called upon. Another guy I would consider a running quarterback is Tim Tebow

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

I would think that Michael Vick would be another running Qb by definition. I never considered Cunningham to be one although he could run effectively when called upon. Another guy I would consider a running quarterback is Tim Tebow

Not even Randall qualifies? Wow. Ok, so there's Vick, Tebow, Jackson, and presumably Fields. Does Hurts qualify? Either way, we're talking about a really small group. Not a huge indictment that there hasn't yet been a Super Bowl among them.

 

[Qcard]

Running QBs are all the rage in today’s NFL but with all of them its only a matter of time till they get hurt. Its bad enough when you are a pocket QB who has to run at times but when runs are part of the game plan and play calls its a long season to ask them to be around at year end when they are needed. Give me a QB with pocket awareness who can move around and occasionally run when necessary any day.

No they are not the rage (draft doesn't lie) but pure Pocket Passers aren't the standard anymore ...what you are witnessing is the progression of Coaching Staffs whom are able to take QBs with above average running skills and making them into effecient Pocket Passers like Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts and to some extent Colin Kaepernick.

In the past Coaches preferred to hybrid/gimmemick offenses for QBs with exceptional running skills like RG3, Tim Tebow etc.

So QBs can make the additions and thrive....some fail

 

[shabazz]

Not even Randall qualifies? Wow. Ok, so there's Vick, Tebow, Jackson, and presumably Fields. Does Hurts qualify? Either way, we're talking about a really small group. Not a huge indictment that there hasn't yet been a Super Bowl among them.

you’re right. It seems to be a very small group and there can be reasonable debate on who really is a true “ running quarterback”….. my definition is a Qb that utilizes running as a main weapon with sprinklings of crappy passes here and there. So that why I thought of Tebow, Jackson and Vick right off the bat……thanks for adding fields as well

Edit. Seems like there’s another genre of Qbs like Allen and Cam Newton types with big frames that have or had 5-6 designed runs to go with their effective passing

 

[DFWJC]

Mahomes has been 300+ the last 3 seasons. That's where Dak was his first 3 seasons. Last 3 Dak is more like ~140 yards/season.

I think 300+ qualifies.

This Article has Mahomes as the 6th best running QB in the league.
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-rushing-quarterbacks-2022/pedro-cerrano

4800 yards vs 300....to me I'd say he is a 100x more a passing QB and not really a running QB....just one that is mobil and can can escape....but we all define it differently

That's fine

 

[DFWJC]

Agree 100% but lets answer OP's question, are so-called running QBs more prone to injuries than your convention pocket QB? As stated earlier, I have not seen any data/facts/proof to support such his claim. As mentioned, from what I've seen they rarely take a solid hit ( sliding or running out of bounds before contact).

I know this was a record year for QB injuires, but just thinking of the 3-4 "running QBs" I had in mind

• Murray...injured a lot, including this year
• Jackson...injured, missed several games
• Hurts...injured, missed games already
• Fields...injured already a couple of times

That's 4 for 4

It'd be an interesting study.

I guess they'd have come up with a definition of running QB, because almost all QBs run some nowdays, even the pure passers like Mahomes', Herbert and Burrows of the world.

I think of running QB as a QB who you would debate if that is their primary weapon....the part of their game you fear the most because they do it so well and so often.
Jackson, Fields....those guys. For SURE not Mahomes--who is possibly the best passer in football.

 

[RonnieT24]

I know this was a record year for QB injuires, but just thinking of the 3-4 "running QBs" I had in mind

• Murray...injured a lot, including this year
• Jackson...injured, missed several games
• Hurts...injured, missed games already
• Fields...injured already a couple of times

That's 4 for 4

It'd be an interesting study.

I guess they'd have come up with a definition of running QB, because almost all QBs run some nowdays, even the pure passers like Mahomes', Herbet and Burrows of the world.

I think of running QB as a QB who you would debate if that is their primary weapon....the part of their game you fear the most because they do it so well and so often.
Jackson, Fields....those guys. For SURE not Mahomes--who is possibly the best passer in football.

This is a strange pursuit.. given that there is an even long list of "passing" QBs who have missed time with injuries.

Matthew Stafford - gone for the season
Mac Jones
Ryan Tannehill
Matt Ryan
Jameis Winston - gone for the season
Sam Darnold
Nick Foles
Jimmy Garoppolo - gone for the season
Mike White
.
.
.

That was just off the top of my head.. I'm sure there are others.. The fact of the matter is the only reason there has not been a running QB to win a Super Bowl is because it's hard for a QB who is limited as a passer to win anything. Though Kapaernick came within one ill-advised time out of doing just that. Recall that the 49ers had the ball at the 2 yard line and the Ravens defense completely on its heels until Harbaugh took a time out and allowed them to regroup.

What people are going to have to accept at some point is that the dual threat QB is here to stay and that trend is only going to continue to grow as defenders get bigger and faster every year QBs will have to get faster and more athletic as well. Yes there will always be a place for a great passer who can do it from the pocket but those guys require more protection than the other guys and I'm sure we've all noticed it's getting harder and harder to protect those guys. Give me a guy who can get out and create plays out of the pocket over a statue any day. The minute a guy wins a Super Bowl people reclassify him into a "pocket passer" within a nanosecond. The best one I read last night was Russell Wilson!! LOL! The guy with 5 seasons of at least 500 yards rushing and one season of 849 .. is a "pocket passer." Clearly somebody didn't watch that dude play. That one made me laugh.. Thanks!!

 

[MyFairLady]

I think that running QB should be defined by the offense not the individual. If you are running a read option as your base offense your QB is by definition a running QB. This is often accompanied by a passing offense that involves one read or tuck it and run.

 

[aikemirv]

Steve Young but I think the term 'running qb' is misleading. It used to be 'mobile qb' but there are really only a few running qbs. If we say which 'running qb' has won a superbowl I don't think it's happened yet.

Steve Young and Russel Wilson were pretty equivalent I would say. While they may not be the true sense of a running QB, a big reason why they did win SB's was because of their mobility. They both passed very well too so while they might not be todays standard of a running QB, they were of their time. Vick and Jackson are in a league of their own as far as running ability. I would be surprised if Jackson wins one. If he does it will because of their defense not because he is a running QB. Fields, Hurts, Daniel Jones (I put them in D McNabb types) are a little bit less quality runner but they are still a huge threat that defenses have to account for. Defenses are adjusting but I don't think they will solve the running QB dilema they are facing when the guy can pass too as has great weapons on the outside.

 

[MyFairLady]

I do not watch an incredible amount of game film from other players but IMHO Wilson, Mahommes and Allen are all incredibly effective passers out of traditional shot gun and under center through play action. They also happen to be great athletes with incredible mobility who will kill you when plays break down after having gone through their reads. Earlier years Wilson is the closest to a running QB and early in his career certainly operated as a running QB for extended periods of time.. I believe he even used to run a fair bit of read option base offense. He would typically get around 500 yards rushing per season killing people with his legs. He doesn't do that anymore. Allen probably sprinkles some in still. Mahommes almost none. These guys for the most part are getting yards running outside of what the base offense is trying to do. That is why I would not consider them running QBs.

 

[MyFairLady]

The read option offense is very difficult to stop in the NFL with the right guy under center. This has proven to be true over and over. Guys like Wilson won a super bowl with it. Guys like Vince Young, RG3, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, even Tim Tebow had great success with it even making it to superbowls. It was never sustainable as the QB either gets hurt or stops running the offense cause he makes 40 million per year or both.

 

[RonnieT24]

The read option offense is very difficult to stop in the NFL with the right guy under center. This has proven to be true over and over. Guys like Wilson won a super bowl with it. Guys like Vince Young, RG3, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, even Tim Tebow had great success with it even making it to superbowls. It was never sustainable as the QB either gets hurt or stops running the offense cause he makes 40 million per year or both.

Yeah teams don't want a guy they're paying that kinda money getting blasted that many times a game. Cam was as big as most defenders and that didn't stop him from getting hurt. The same will happen to Allen if he doesn't tone it down. No matter how big and tough you are .. the body can only take so much abuse before it says "no mas." Once I saw the beatings take down Earl Campbell I realized that they can take down anybody..

 

[Blackrain]

Name a running QB that won a Super Bowl.

Roger Staubach. Dont even try and tell me he was only a pocket passer . Because I watched him live in the moment and he made a ton of plays with his legs .

 

[MyFairLady]

Yeah teams don't want a guy they're paying that kinda money getting blasted that many times a game. Cam was as big as most defenders and that didn't stop him from getting hurt. The same will happen to Allen if he doesn't tone it down. No matter how big and tough you are .. the body can only take so much abuse before it says "no mas." Once I saw the beatings take down Earl Campbell I realized that they can take down anybody..

I have very few football heroes outside of Cowboy players. Earl is one of them.

If the RB is getting blasted he can usually still run effectively or he can come out and get replaced. If the QB is getting blasted he can not come out. He may still run effectively buy his passing will suffer. Cam is a text book case. Early years Wilson is the prototype that IMHO teams should be trying to copy. A running QB on a rookie deal. All the money goes into an incredible defense. The key with Wilson was that he loved to slide. Honestly IMHO this demoralized the other team more than anything. Cam may have been a beast and he dished it out as good as anything but at least the other team could feel good about getting a hit in after a 15 yard gain. With Wilson you always felt cheated and his play as a QB was never affected by the running. IMHO they used to have the perfect offense with the perfect balance of read option, play action, etc.