Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

MichaelWinicki

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Putin warns 3rd parties against creating Ukraine no-fly zone

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-3d9e50b2fa8b08ce1f74c1b09403186e

President Vladimir Putin warned Saturday that Russia would consider any third-party declaration of a no-fly zone over Ukraine as participation in the war there.

Yeah, of course.

At this point it's a limited conflict with many within the aggressor's country unhappy with their leadership.

Any sort of "help" provided by western countries up and beyond moving some military hardware across the border will in all likelihood escalate the crisis and turn Putin into a "baby face" with the Russian people.

That can't happen.

It's clear the Russian military is not capable of doing what its original mission was and this crisis has a chance to simply burn itself out without other countries throwing their military hats into the ring.
 

Montanalo

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I worry about the potential "scorched earth" approach as the Russian advance slows or even bogs down.

Interesting conversation with some of our Russian relatives and friends. While many Russians are turning against Putin, there are a number of Russians reporting that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine (and, are Ukrainian citizens) have suffered at the hands of the ethnic Ukrainians. I can find little to no references or verification of these claims in the Russian press.
 

MichaelWinicki

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I worry about the potential "scorched earth" approach as the Russian advance slows or even bogs down.

Interesting conversation with some of our Russian relatives and friends. While many Russians are turning against Putin, there are a number of Russians reporting that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine (and, are Ukrainian citizens) have suffered at the hands of the ethnic Ukrainians. I can find little to no references or verification of these claims in the Russian press.

Yeah, that diatribe by the pro-Putin part of the Russian media has been playing a while now, without any proof of it actually occurring.

The vast majority of folks outside Russia know that it's just another "Fake **** attack (pretending they're Polish) on a German radio station". And thankfully it seems there are many within Russia who seem to know that the state-sponsored media is full of **** most of the time.
 

Reality

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Yeah, of course.

At this point it's a limited conflict with many within the aggressor's country unhappy with their leadership.

Any sort of "help" provided by western countries up and beyond moving some military hardware across the border will in all likelihood escalate the crisis and turn Putin into a "baby face" with the Russian people.

That can't happen.

It's clear the Russian military is not capable of doing what its original mission was and this crisis has a chance to simply burn itself out without other countries throwing their military hats into the ring.
That's the issue that a lot of people do not understand. When you see innocent people being killed and their lives and homes destroyed, it ignites the urge to want to do something about it. I think most people feel that way.

The problem is that the moment NATO countries enter the war, the solidarity you see in the world right now for Ukraine against Putin will start to fracture with past animosity toward NATO countries taking a higher priority to some countries than their sympathy for Ukraine.

Right now, NATO has something more powerful than its military. It has world opinion on their side with regards to Russia. That alliance is way more important and effective than any short-term military gains would provide, which would also come with potential world war risks.

I think NATO and other countries are doing everything they can right up to the red line to help Ukraine defend itself and given the tenacity and bravery of the Ukrainian people, there is reason to be optimistic on Ukraine's long-term future even if it falls in the short-term.
 

MichaelWinicki

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That's the issue that a lot of people do not understand. When you see innocent people being killed and their lives and homes destroyed, it ignites the urge to want to do something about it. I think most people feel that way.

The problem is that the moment NATO countries enter the war, the solidarity you see in the world right now for Ukraine against Putin will start to fracture with past animosity toward NATO countries taking a higher priority to some countries than their sympathy for Ukraine.

Right now, NATO has something more powerful than its military. It has world opinion on their side with regards to Russia. That alliance is way more important and effective than any short-term military gains would provide, which would also come with potential world war risks.

I think NATO and other countries are doing everything they can right up to the red line to help Ukraine defend itself and given the tenacity and bravery of the Ukrainian people, there is reason to be optimistic on Ukraine's long-term future even if it falls in the short-term.

You bet!

No one likes to see civilians being killed without reason.

But we don't need this spinning out of control like things did to start WWI.

And even now Putin is "reaching" by calling the sanctions a "sort of" declaration of war because he knows the West is showing a great deal of restraint and a great many citizens of Russia know that he was the instigator.
 

Red Dragon

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I can't tell whether Russia is winning or not.

Half of the news is reporting that Russia is slowly encircling Ukraine and tightening the noose and Moscow victory is inevitable.

Other half reports all the miscues, logistical problems, desertion, low morale, ineptitude, and says Russia's military is going to implode any moment.

Which is it?
 

Roadtrip635

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I can't tell whether Russia is winning or not.

Half of the news is reporting that Russia is slowly encircling Ukraine and tightening the noose and Moscow victory is inevitable.

Other half reports all the miscues, logistical problems, desertion, low morale, ineptitude, and says Russia's military is going to implode any moment.

Which is it?
I think it's a bit of both, Russia has made some progress and is encircling some areas, but the slow progress is causing problems. It appears they were not prepared for this type of resistance which is causing the logistical problems which lead to the low morale, desertion, etc.

Russia is probably "winning", but the heavy losses coupled with the outside pressure with sanctions have to have them question what are they really going to win? As long as Ukraine can keep the Russians from controlling the air the Ukraine can stay in the fight.
 

Roadtrip635

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The UK government has banned ships with "any Russian connection" from entering its ports due to the country's invasion of Ukraine.

However, the Unite union said cargo was not included in the ban and has called for ministers "to close this loophole".

Stanlow operators Essar said a German-flagged vessel was granted approval to berth by the Port Authority on Thursday.

Sharon Graham, general secretary of Unite, said they had informed the company that "Unite workers at the facility will under no circumstances unload any Russian oil regardless of the nationality of the vessel which delivers it".
 
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