RW11....."Detroit practices harder than Dallas"... w/audio post #33

[ddh33]

There's really something to be said for "hard" work.

But there's something to say about doing things right, pace, and other things as well.

I know that players thought last training camp was very difficult even without much of the hitting. I know that a veteran team should be watched so that they don't get worn out. So I think you can argue it either way.

I happen to feel that this issue is a lot like Cabo and other things. If you win, it was great. If you lose, it was stupid. The Cowboys lost, so now they are soft, lazy, etc, etc.

 

[dcfanatic]

I think that he originally said that the difference between Lions and Cowboy practices was that there were no dropped balls at Valley Ranch.

I just find it humerous that the players don't see all the damge that talking to ESPN or blogging has done over the past few months. It would be the same in any organization - public exposure of dirty laundry / gripes always damages morale. It might have helped if dough boy had adressed the troops at the end of the season instead of running like a *****.

Well he said they don't drop balls and that they run the plays out.

I put that audio up above, not sure if you caught that.

The running the plays out to me says that they were working harder. At least in those few days he was on the team.

Now he seems to be saying maybe that's not the case.

 

[dcfanatic]

There's really something to be said for "hard" work.

But there's something to say about doing things right, pace, and other things as well.

I know that players thought last training camp was very difficult even without much of the hitting. I know that a veteran team should be watched so that they don't get worn out. So I think you can argue it either way.

I happen to feel that this issue is a lot like Cabo and other things. If you win, it was great. If you lose, it was stupid. The Cowboys lost, so now they are soft, lazy, etc, etc.

LOL.

What player is going to come out and say Wade runs a lazy, sloppy, soft training camp while they are in TC?

And I am not sure this team knows what difficult practices are anymore.

 

[sonnyboy]

Something Wade was quoted on just before the start of the 2007 season that kinda concerned me at the time.

Can't remember the specific queation he was answering but he said "how impressed I was at how hard the team worked".

The Switzer comparison certainly holds water. Wade brought some goods things to this team. His coaching absolutely improved our defense in 2007 and 2008.

I just think much of the ground work Parcells laid in the area of work ethic slowly erouded away through 2007 and it showed big time this year.

Sparano's departure sorta removed the last bit of Parcells presence.

 

[dcfanatic]

Thats what I was thinking.

Maybe we do need to practice harder but Detroit isn't a very good example to use.

They are like the 72 Dolphins but opposite.

Think about it compared to the talent levels.

Their talent is poor, they practiced harder than us and they go 0-16.

We are more talented, don't practice hard and still go 9-7.

So let's conclude that maybe if we were practicing harder we could be playing on Sunday.

Right?

:bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

 

[dcfanatic]

Something Wade was quoted on just before the start of the 2007 season that kinda concerned me at the time.

Can't remember the specific queation he was answering but he said "how impressed I was at how hard the team worked".

The Switzer comparison certainly holds water. Wade brought some goods things to this team. His coaching absolutely improved our defense in 2007 and 2008.

I just think much of the ground work Parcells laid in the area of work ethic slowly erouded away through 2007 and it showed big time this year.

Sparano's departure sorta removed the last bit of Parcells presence.

Word to me mums.

 

[WoodysGirl]

LOL.

What player is going to come out and say Wade runs a lazy, sloppy, soft training camp while they are in TC?

And I am not sure this team knows what difficult practices are anymore.

Well, based on reports from the beat writers, Wade's camps were ran differently, but still were just as hard as Bill's camps were.

I think Archer broke it down the first year to show how little difference there was in how each ran the camps.

I'll have to look for it later.

 

[dcfanatic]

for all this roy has been saying, cant he practice route running?

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[dcfanatic]

The only thing that makes me raise an eyebrow about this, though, is that following Roy's first week here he was on Mike and Mike praising the tempo of practice in Dallas. I can't remember his exact phrase, but he was talking about how it was night and day -- in Dallas' favor -- in how the two teams prepared.

Of course, that's when things were going nicely for him and he was glad to be here. Suddenly we practice worse?

It wouldn't surprise me, but it makes me wonder. I mean, did we practice less hard late in the year than when he first got here? I doubt it.

Post #30 in this thread.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

I was listening to Mike and Mike this morning in the car. They had RW11 on with them at the SuperBowl. They started talking about Detroit. RW11 just blurps out...."It was a rough year for them, Detroit is better than 0-16, they practice alot harder than Dallas"..............

Not at all surprising, the cheerleaders do to!

 

[Cajuncowboy]

LOL.

What player is going to come out and say Wade runs a lazy, sloppy, soft training camp while they are in TC?

And I am not sure this team knows what difficult practices are anymore.

I may be wrong but didn't Troy Aikman say something about the way Switzwer was conducting not only camp but the way he had a lackadaisical approach to the game?

 

[dcfanatic]

Well, based on reports from the beat writers, Wade's camps were ran differently, but still were just as hard as Bill's camps were.

I think Archer broke it down the first year to show how little difference there was in how each ran the camps.

I'll have to look for it later.

Yeah I do remember reading that.

But I can remember a bunch of times where we went way too many days without pads trying to save it for the end of the season.

And we all know how well that plan came together.

I think it was Peter King who said that when he went out there the laid back atmosphere had him worried about this team faltering in 2008.

 

[Verdict]

Harder isn't ALWAYS better. I know two basketball coaches that approach practices entirely differently. One is a perpetual winner. He wins even when he has very little talent. The other practices probably twice as much and is known as a somewhat successful coach.

In reality, the coach that practices less is very focused, and has his players attention for the full time practice is in session. There is no wasted time, and when his players take the court they play with focus, and follow the game plan without question. They have a limited number of plays, but execute those plays with precision.

The workaholic coach practices his players so long that they do not maintain proper focus. He tries to run a hundred different plays and none of them are ever run with precision. His players are bombarded with so many different things that although they have excellent individual skills from the long hours put in that they do not really play as a team, and they always look choppy and disorganized.

I realize every situation is different, and I realize that everyone does it differently, but harder isn't always better.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

Yeah I do remember reading that.

But I can remember a bunch of times where we went way too many days without pads trying to save it for the end of the season.

And we all know how well that plan came together.

I think it was Peter King who said that when he went out there the laid back atmosphere had him worried about this team faltering in 2008.

:laugh2: That's akin to someone wanting to lose weight by sitting on a sofa eating potato chips and pizza! The Cowboys have really had some genius leadership in the last 13 years or so!

 

[dcfanatic]

Well, based on reports from the beat writers, Wade's camps were ran differently, but still were just as hard as Bill's camps were.

I think Archer broke it down the first year to show how little difference there was in how each ran the camps.

I'll have to look for it later.

Found this.

From a chat Archer did...

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2008/8/11/591374/todd-archer-live-chat

Tampaorbust: Have you seen any significant changes (for better or worse) in the Cowboys’ second training camp under Wade Phillips?

Todd Archer: It’s the same camp, and hopefully now I can use this time to dispel some myths on how “hard” this camp isn’t. They worry about the Cowboys not being in pads, not tackling. I’ve covered three teams – the Bengals, Dolphins and Cowboys. The only difference I see in Phillips’ camp from Parcells and Dave Wannstedt was their work in goal-line situations. The other two would allow tackling. Phillips doesn’t.

 

[cowboyjoe]

I think some of you zoners are missing one big detail.

Remember in late november and december after 12-1, the cowboys went on a slide of losing. What were the reports coming out of Dallas practice fields.

Remember, good ole wade didnt have the players practicing in pads at all. Zippo Nada. And in december last year, remember good ole wade, let some players have the day off, etc.

Granted some were hurt, but not all of the ones he let off were hurt. And remember what good ole wade said, when the media asked him about this, I am saving their legs.

Thats part of the problem, just like this person posted;
I hate to hear this but that's why I want Wade gone. Our 13-3 year under wade two seasons ago was similar to the Super Bowl we won with Switzer, we had so much talent even Barry couldn't screw it up. Two years ago we had a lot of talent but not enough to overcome bad coaching from Wade. And this year it bit us in the butt.

You can't practice light and play hard. You can't ignore the walk throughs and expect to execute properly. You can't baby men, and expect them not to play that way.

This is why I said all along that I gave Garrett a pass on this year because of they way we practiced. You can only do so much with what you are allowed to have.


How do we know, what good ole wade would let garrett have the offense practice. If you remember in the last game, on one particular play, the cowboys ran on 4th down instead of punting, good ole wade looked confused and lost on the sidelines.

Finally reports came out that Garrett had the cowboys to go for it, while wade was looking for the cowboys to punt. Well, the cowboys made the first down, and proceded down the field, eventually the cowboys fumbled best i remember.

But my point is, do we really know, what good ole wade would let garrett run on offense, and what he could and couldnt do?

As far as practice, we remember the media saying after the loss to the Commanders cowboys game in dallas something is wrong. What did good ole wade say? Everything is ok, it will work out, dont worry. Get off of my back. etc.

well the media tried to tell him, you cant baby these players, even though they want to be treated like professionals, you cant treat them that way till they earn it, and even then like jimmy johnson said one time, you still have to step on their neck.

It stands to reason, no person really wants to work hard, study hard, if you are going to let them have days off, etc and not allow hitting, etc. But thats not how championships are won.

And it doesnt stop at good ole wade either, jerry jones is to blame to for allowing that atmosphere of no hitting, hard work, focus on football too, as well as the players.

 

[Concord]

OUCH...that's going to leave a mark.

 

[cowboyjoe]

in the archer report, your missing one big detail where he covered the bengals, cowboys and dolphins;



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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodysGirl
Well, based on reports from the beat writers, Wade's camps were ran differently, but still were just as hard as Bill's camps were.

I think Archer broke it down the first year to show how little difference there was in how each ran the camps.

I'll have to look for it later.

Found this.

From a chat Archer did...

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2008/...cher-live-chat

Tampaorbust: Have you seen any significant changes (for better or worse) in the Cowboys’ second training camp under Wade Phillips?

Todd Archer: It’s the same camp, and hopefully now I can use this time to dispel some myths on how “hard” this camp isn’t. They worry about the Cowboys not being in pads, not tackling. I’ve covered three teams – the Bengals, Dolphins and Cowboys. The only difference I see in Phillips’ camp from Parcells and Dave Wannstedt was their work in goal-line situations. The other two would allow tackling. Phillips doesn’t.

those years, and even last year, the only team that really changed their approach to hitting in practice etc was the dolphins,

need i remind you in 2007,, what was the record of the dolphins

if you really want to look, go look at the super bowls, i think Hostile put a report of it up, how many hard discipline coaches have won the superbowl?

How many soft coaches have won the superbowl?

In the final 4, eagles, steelers, ravens, cardinals, how many are soft coaches?

how many are hard discipline coaches?

and need i remind you, after the new england patriots blasted the cardinals, whisenhunt on the plane ride back, was prancing up and down the isles of the airplane with fire in his eyes. When he got back, to arizona, he made the players work hard in pads, etc, Where are the cardinals now? what big game are the steelers and cardinals playing?

it takes hard work, blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice to win, generallly soft approach wont do it, unless you have a veteran team like the cowboys did in 95 with switzer, but what key ingredient did the cowboys have in the 95 super bowl championship, they had veteran leadershiip, and assistant coaches that worked the players, even switzer said he let the assistants basically run the show.

i rest my case, discipline is always needed on a team,

 

[tyke1doe]

Not necessarily true. With Detroit and their "hard" practices, I guess they were just practicing the wrong stuff.

A lot goes into a successful outcome and practice can affect things but is not the ultimate indicator of how well one performs on gameday.

There are far too many stories of workout warriors that don't show up when the lights are brightest and too many stories of those who practice like crap but are true gamers.

No one has the magic elixir to success. That's why there are few repeat champions.

So let's temper all that nonsense about how our coaches suck because "Detroit's practices are harder".

That is a freakin joke. They did not win ONE game last year. Look at what all those tough practices earned them.

What you say is true.

But winning is a product of ...

- hard work (hard practices)
- coaching (which includes scheming)
- talent (gotta have the players)
- luck (which includes an absence of injuries)

I don't think anyone will say that the Lions are more talented than the Cowboys.

So it may very well be that the Lions practice harder but because they lack talent or the right coaching, they didn't win any games.

You take their attitude towards practice and input it into the Cowboys, and maybe this team is better than 9-7.

 

[avaj]

RW also said you start working in the offseason and he was waiting to see how it works here.