Schefter: Zack Martin Unhappy with Contract; Considering Not Reporting to Camp

[Sydla]

If it makes you feel better to feel he's just dominating defensive linemen and never makes a mistake of any kind, that's fine. We just look at it differently.

But if you agree they all get beat, is it so hard to fathom that he probably has been the cause of some sacks? Maybe a few penalties? Especially now that he is in his 30's?

See when you have to make things up, you know you aren't making much of an argument.

Nowhere have I ever said he "never makes a mistake of any kind".

As for your last paragraph, nah, I still trust those that grade the position, the stats, etc. over some random fan who says his eye test is more valuable.

PS - If your claim is that Martin has had a few penalties not called, that's the case with every lineman from great ones to bad ones. Sometimes they get away with stuff. But it's all relative so when you compare across the board for all OL, Martin had one penalty. Trying to downplay that is bizarre.

 

[beware_d-ware]

He's not as dominant as he was but he's a 1st team All Pro. He's still a dominant OG. No one suggested he is as good as he was 4 years ago but it's downright bizarre that people are trying to argue he's still no longer a great OG, just a good one.

And all because of what? A story that suggests he may want a new contract?

I swear, this board is wack at times.

As soon as a Cowboy gets paid, or wants to get paid, CZ turns on them.

Watch it with Parsons. For $30M a season, they will expect a sack on every passing-down snap.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

As soon as a Cowboy gets paid, or wants to get paid, CZ turns on them.

Watch it with Parsons. For $30M a season, they will expect a sack on every passing-down snap.

They'll say trade him. lol

 

[beware_d-ware]

They'll say trade him. lol

They turned on our avatar boy. All-Decade player, fastest defender ever to 100 sacks, and that still wasn't good enough for CZ because "he didn't get those sacks in the clutch." A future HOFer was just an Ichiro-esque stat padder to them.

 

[McKDaddy]

See when you have to make things up, you know you aren't making much of an argument.

Nowhere have I ever said he "never makes a mistake of any kind".

As for your last paragraph, nah, I still trust those that grade the position, the stats, etc. over some random fan who says his eye test is more valuable.

PS - If your claim is that Martin has had a few penalties not called, that's the case with every lineman from great ones to bad ones. Sometimes they get away with stuff. But it's all relative so when you compare across the board for all OL, Martin had one penalty. Trying to downplay that is bizarre.

That's exactly what saying you believe those stats means. Geez.

I don't know why it upsets some people to simply evaluate a player's performance. It's how you get a realistic outlook about your team.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They turned on our avatar boy. All-Decade player, fastest defender ever to 100 sacks, and that still wasn't good enough for CZ because "he didn't get those sacks in the clutch." A future HOFer was just an Ichiro-esque stat padder to them.

It's worth noting every fanbase has idiots in it. Ware is beloved amongst Cowboy fans....

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

That's exactly what saying you believe those stats means. Geez.

I don't know why it upsets some people to simply evaluate a player's performance. It's how you get a realistic outlook about your team.

Martin always triggers people for some reason. I'm not gonna lie I love the guy and we should re-sign and I hope we do to something that makes him happy. I'm all for players getting paid especially in the NFL but it didn't sit well with me when he didn't want to budge off of right guard. When they needed someone to fill in at another position.

I'm shocked people understand you can't invest heavy in running back but even the thought of it at right guard seems to be triggering people.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

It's worth noting every fanbase has idiots in it. Ware is beloved amongst Cowboy fans....

But I do remember when he left the Cowboys there were a lot of good riddens to him on here.

 

[Vtwin]

It's worth noting every fanbase has idiots in it. Ware is beloved amongst Cowboy fans....

The majority of Zoners did have enough of his "empty stats" and the lack of "game changing plays at crucial times."

It was the predominant theme at the time and there was little ruing when he left.

Now, eight years later, we finally have a respectable pass rush again.

 

[McKDaddy]

Martin always triggers people for some reason. I'm not gonna lie I love the guy and we should re-sign and I hope we do to something that makes him happy. I'm all for players getting paid especially in the NFL but it didn't sit well with me when he didn't want to budge off of right guard. When they needed someone to fill in at another position.

I'm shocked people understand you can't invest heavy in running back but even the thought of it at right guard seems to be triggering people.

No doubt he was awesome early in his career and as I said in an earlier comment I'm not against "something" to keep everyone happy as long as it isn't out of line with reality.

First impressions man. He came in and was instantly successful, never off field issues, hype machine, etc.. People get that in their head and can't accept that he now has 9 seasons under his belt. They flash back to when he was regularly pancaking people and substitute that for current play. Get very defensive if you try to coax them toward the truth.

 

[Sydla]

That's exactly what saying you believe those stats means. Geez.

I don't know why it upsets some people to simply evaluate a player's performance. It's how you get a realistic outlook about your team.

No one said don't evaluate the player. My point is the people that do the grading for a living, the ones that total the stats, etc. Those people have more credibility than a fan on a website that suddenly has a beef with a player because he's looking for a new contract.

Plus those stats are just sacks and penalties. OL can make other mistakes........... maybe make a wrong read on a run, or even miss a block on a pass play but the QB gets rid of the ball before actually getting sacked, etc. Martin isn't and has never been a perfect player. Brady wasn't perfect at QB. Rice wasn't perfect at WR. But Martin is still an elite OG in this league as evidenced by just about everyone other than fans on this board apparently.

 

[Sydla]

No doubt he was awesome early in his career and as I said in an earlier comment I'm not against "something" to keep everyone happy as long as it isn't out of line with reality.

First impressions man. He came in and was instantly successful, never off field issues, hype machine, etc.. People get that in their head and can't accept that he now has 9 seasons under his belt. They flash back to when he was regularly pancaking people and substitute that for current play. Get very defensive if you try to coax them toward the truth.

No, we flash back to last season when he was again a first team all pro and by pretty much any standard/measurement he was still an elite OG.

That's the truth. They don't give first team all pro awards out to just OK/solid/good players. If you look at the various polls conducted of pundits, etc. Martin is at the top of the list for OGs. ESPN just did their positional rankings where they talk to coaches, front office personnel and Martin was ranked the #1 interior OL player. When NFL polls the players and ranks their Top 100, he'll likely be the top rated interior OL (or one of the top 3) in the Top 100.

Has he slipped? Sure. Everyone slips as they get older. Is he still the best interior OL in the league (or at least Top 3)? Absolutely.

 

[McKDaddy]

Those people have more credibility than a fan on a website that suddenly has a beef with a player because he's looking for a new contract.

My evaluation isn't influenced by this contract issue becoming news. I have said for a few years now that he wasn't playing at the level people were claiming. Simply because we should be able to exchange thoughts and hopefully form a consensus based on shared observations and facts.

As I have said, if you still choose to consider him dominant, that's fine, I just can't agree. Below dominant, I could be flexible.

 

[Sydla]

My evaluation isn't influenced by this contract issue becoming news. I have said for a few years now that he wasn't playing at the level people were claiming. Simply because we should be able to exchange thoughts and hopefully form a consensus based on shared observations and facts.

As I have said, if you still choose to consider him dominant, that's fine, I just can't agree. Below dominant, I could be flexible.

OK, what are your facts that should lead us to conclude he's not an elite OG anymore?

Because here's what I have to prove that he's still an elite OG. One, he was 1st team all pro last year. Two, ESPN just polled analysts/coaches/front office personnel and he was rated the #1 interior OL player. The limited stats we have on OL play, he ranked near the top for all interior OL players. If you buy into PFF, he was rated one of the best interior OL last year as well.

What you seem to have is just your observations. OK. But surely you can see why many put more value into what I listed than some random internet guy's thoughts on how he's played, right?

 

[McKDaddy]

Has he slipped? Sure. Everyone slips as they get older.

That's what I've been saying.

Is he still the best interior OL in the league (or at least Top 3)? Absolutely.

As I said in earlier post, no G was dominant last year. They all had something less than their best seasons. So, in 2022, as long as we acknowledge no one was dominant, you could put them in a lot of orders and I wouldn't argue. But some of the younger ones have reasonable chance to get to or return to dominant form. I would not expect him at this point in his career to do so.

 

[McKDaddy]

OK, what are your facts that should lead us to conclude he's not an elite OG anymore?

The film. He doesn't move people and demoralize them like he once did. He loses reps. At one point that was like a unicorn. When Quinten Nelson is right, he dominates people like Zack used to.

He doesn't win reps at nearly the rate he used to. Now the fat part of bell curve is a lot of reps that are more accurately graded as stalemates. He didn't get beat per se but he also didn't win.

Which is in line with a good, consistent player but not an elite, dominant player that by himself is an edge for your offense.

 

[mattjames2010]

The film. He doesn't move people and demoralize them like he once did. He loses reps. At one point that was like a unicorn. When Quinten Nelson is right, he dominates people like Zack used to.

He doesn't win reps at nearly the rate he used to. Now the fat part of bell curve is a lot of reps that are more accurately graded as stalemates. He didn't get beat per se but he also didn't win.

Which is in line with a good, consistent player but not an elite, dominant player that by himself is an edge for your offense.

You're full of so much ****, dude.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

But I do remember when he left the Cowboys there were a lot of good riddens to him on here.

I mean at that point he was a shell of his former self. It wasn't right but I can understand it to an extent. \

 

[McKDaddy]

You're full of so much ****, dude.

Show me the domination then.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No doubt he was awesome early in his career and as I said in an earlier comment I'm not against "something" to keep everyone happy as long as it isn't out of line with reality.

First impressions man. He came in and was instantly successful, never off field issues, hype machine, etc.. People get that in their head and can't accept that he now has 9 seasons under his belt. They flash back to when he was regularly pancaking people and substitute that for current play. Get very defensive if you try to coax them toward the truth.

People want to give him a blank check because "he's our best player". Just insane.