Schultz = Witten 2.0?

[zerofill]

He seems to be turning into a leaner, faster Gronk.
The thing with him is, he has developed a lot in just last season to this season.
That kind of tells me, he hasn't hit his peak yet.

Witten though... people forget you when you are gone. That dude when he was younger, was one of the best TEs that ever played the game.
Schultz has a way to go to earn that.

I don't personally feel Gronk is even remotely on par with Witten.
Gronk got to play on exceptional teams, with an exception scheme.

Plus, Witten was always on the field. Gronk, not so much lol.

Witten had to play a lot of his career with total crap coaching, and teams.
Yet he still excelled... The connection he and Romo had, definitely helped.
Witten often was the only choice for the ball in Dallas for a lot of seasons.

Being compared to Gronk isn't a bad thing either. Dude is an awesome TE.

I hope Schultz gets to Witten level though... and he very well may. Because his
skills are really growing fast.

 

[aikemirv]

This dude is big and somehow gets open.. plus he can block... reminds you of anyone?

I like Shultz and yes he reminds me of the 33-34 year old Witten.

The 23-30 year old WItten - Please!!!

 

[CowboysExchange]

No, Gathers, Swaim, Fasono, Phillips, Bennett, Hanna and Escobar were not every passing down TE's. It's ridiculous for you to claim they were. The only one of the bunch you mentioned that was an every passing down TE was Witten, and as you noted, he was aged those last several years.

So, again, none of that translates to today...

* A couple of those guys haven't played for Dallas in a decade or more.
* None of them played under the current coaches
* Witten was the only dedicated starter of the bunch (other than Swaim for part of 1 season, and he was a placeholder)
* Bennett and Witten are the only one's that ever had even one season as good as Schultz last year
* Many didn't put up career stats as good as Schultz single season stats last year.

I do understand the role of our checkdown tes and other teams tes. I like the position.

Does the te position work for us on 3rd and 13 and hail Mary plays

That's a big No, No, No in my book.

If you disagree at least show me some stats where the te did something on those types of downs and distances

But ya can't. You can talk all day in theory like these tes are succeeding on critical downs, in the Red zone, and on deep balls but can you can't show me in black and white

What is their open and catch conversion rate on 3rd and 10+ yards btw.

40 routes ran and didn't get open once but let's play him on 3rd and 20 anyways

Is that what you're saying

 

[OmerV]

I do understand the role of our checkdown tes and other teams tes. I like the position.

Does the te position work for us on 3rd and 13 and hail Mary plays

That's a big No, No, No in my book.

If you disagree at least show me some stats where the te did something on those types of downs and distances

But ya can't

The fact that's what you call them further proves you don't know the TE position. I'll give you some clues.

Even on long yardage downs ….

If the defense focuses on the outside receivers the TE is available to get downfield and make the play/1st down
If the defense gives attention to the TE, that takes a LB away from pass rushing, and/or a safety/DB away from giving help on outside receivers who can then get open for a 1st down
If defenses clear out chasing outside receivers the TE is open underneath with a lot of running room ahead of him
If needed, the TE can chip or even stay in to block a quality pass rusher, which provides time for other receivers to run deeper, more involved routes.
If nothing is available downfield, the TE can be a safety valve that gives some chance at a 1st down, or at least gets some added field position yards before punting.
A TE provides versatility - the entire playbook is available, he can be moved to the outside for an extra outside receiver or stay inside and block a pass rusher on the line of scrimmage or run a route from a traditional TE alignment, and the defense won't know in advance which will occur (a WR can't provide that level of versatility)

See, the thing you don't get is that NFL offenses have schemes and strategies, and all these things work in sync and have a purpose. They attack opposing defenses in different ways with different players at different positions, and some of the plays you call blown coverage are actually good play designs the team uses in certain situations against certain defensive alignments.

NFL coaches know all this, while you seem to think it's only about putting the fastest guys on the field, as if it is a video or flag football game.

NOW LOOKAT THIS … its full of examples of Schultz being used in all sorts of ways, including getting first downs on longer yardage plays (even though you claim he can't be used on longer yardage plays), and making plays in coverage (even though you claim he doesn't make plays in coverage).

 

[CowboysExchange]

The fact that's what you call them further proves you don't know the TE position. I'll give you some clues.

Even on long yardage downs ….

If the defense focuses on the outside receivers the TE is available to get downfield and make the play/1st down
If the defense gives attention to the TE, that takes a LB away from pass rushing, and/or a safety/DB away from giving help on outside receivers who can then get open for a 1st down
If defenses clear out chasing outside receivers the TE is open underneath with a lot of running room ahead of him
If needed, the TE can chip or even stay in to block a quality pass rusher, which provides time for other receivers to run deeper, more involved routes.
If nothing is available downfield, the TE can be a safety valve that gives some chance at a 1st down, or at least gets some added field position yards before punting.
A TE provides versatility - the entire playbook is available, he can be moved to the outside for an extra outside receiver or stay inside and block a pass rusher on the line of scrimmage or run a route from a traditional TE alignment, and the defense won't know in advance which will occur (a WR can't provide that level of versatility)

See, the thing you don't get is that NFL offenses have schemes and strategies, and all these things work in sync and have a purpose. They attack opposing defenses in different ways with different players at different positions, and some of the plays you call blown coverage are actually good play designs the team uses in certain situations against certain defensive alignments.

NFL coaches know all this, while you seem to think it's only about putting the fastest guys on the field, as if it is a video or flag football game.

NOW LOOKAT THIS … its full of examples of Schultz being used in all sorts of ways, including getting first downs on longer yardage plays (even though you claim he can't be used on longer yardage plays), and making plays in coverage (even though you claim he doesn't make plays in coverage).

You just can't admit that he's not an everydown player. You couldn't about old man Witten or Swaim either.

You believe the te should play every snap and not ever leave the field.

But when the te core has 4 tds all year and we're 8-8 it's not these tes fault. Lmao

If we had 4 Jerry rices you play a scrub te every snap

The te position isn't treated this way on many if any other teams. They are experiencing some substitution and do not play every snap unless they got deep ball and red zone skills.

You always got your snapcounts allocated to the worst receivers on the team and they always come up short

I hope you don't go into coaching because you'll never win beans in a dominant te scheme w mediocre tes who play every snap

About like we've been for 25 yrs

 

[CowboysExchange]

Kudos for Schultz. He's getting a few black and white stats

He still doesn't have any deep ball? Go up and get a ball skills? Red zone efficiency? Right???

Ne used to use Gronk and Hernandez in the red zone but they couldn't win using Blake Jarwin and Dalton Schultz

Not all tes are one trick ponies. Our tes are one trick ponies Rogers. One trick ponies come up empty when it matters. Js

Gronk is dragging and fighting off 3 defenders winning games, playoff games,and Superbowls and Schultz is running around uncovered like #82 catching 5 yard passes on 3rd and 15 and some in this forum are comparing a champion scoring threat and winner to a never won much??? That's absurd.

On 3rd and 10+ yards those defenders are gonna let you catch them 6 yard passes.

That's the same scheme since #82 got here and started that everydown te baloney.

Many teams go 4 wide w no tes and a RB. So use dual rbs and 3 wrs.

 

[CowboysExchange]

If you have a one trick pony at any skilled position he's gonna require some substitution or you're basically choosing a knight over a queen in chess.

You can use the knight but you're gonna lose most of the games.

Comparing Schultz to Pollard on 3rd and 13 is like comparing a knight to a queen in chess.

 

[CowboysExchange]

Whatever blocking he's doing on game winning passing drives, in the red zone, and on 3rd and 10+ doesn't offset not getting open and losing the game.





,

 

[Cowpolk]

Shultz is a keeper and getting better every season

 

[kskboys]

Schultz is a beast as a TE and will quickly enter top 10 discussion if he keeps this play up. Minus the fumbling, of course!

 

[OmerV]

You just can't admit that he's not an everydown player. You couldn't about old man Witten or Swaim either.

You believe the te should play every snap and not ever leave the field.

But when the te core has 4 tds all year and we're 8-8 it's not these tes fault. Lmao

If we had 4 Jerry rices you play a scrub te every snap

The te position isn't treated this way on many if any other teams. They are experiencing some substitution and do not play every snap unless they got deep ball and red zone skills.

You always got your snapcounts allocated to the worst receivers on the team and they always come up short

I hope you don't go into coaching because you'll never win beans in a dominant te scheme w mediocre tes who play every snap

About like we've been for 25 yrs

I see everything I wrote flew over your head - or you just ignored it because it doesn't fit your narrative - and you also ignored the video.

I provided information, and a video. You provide a sit in front of a video game mentality that you are willing to post blatant falsehoods to support, and that essentially argues you understand the role of a TE in an NFL offense and NFL O-coordinators do not.

You show me a team with 4 Jerry Rice's come back and talk. Until then that's just another flight of your flawed imagination.

BTW, I don't allocate snap counts to anyone. NFL O-Coordinators do. And, again, if you would have bothered to watch the video you would see the TE doesn't always come up short. Maybe you did watch it but refuse to acknowledge it.

And, BTW, do you realize how ridiculous it is to suggest that on a team that had one of the worst defenses in NFL history and that lost it's QB during the 5th game and had much of it's O-Line out most of the year that the TE was the reason the team didn't win.

 

[CowboysExchange]

I see everything I wrote flew over your head - or you just ignored it because it doesn't fit your narrative - and you also ignored the video.

I provided information, and a video. You provide a sit in front of a video game mentality that you are willing to post blatant falsehoods to support, and that essentially argues you understand the role of a TE in an NFL offense and NFL O-coordinators do not.

You show me a team with 4 Jerry Rice's come back and talk. Until then that's just another flight of your flawed imagination.

BTW, I don't allocate snap counts to anyone. NFL O-Coordinators do. And, again, if you would have bothered to watch the video you would see the TE doesn't always come up short. Maybe you did watch it but refuse to acknowledge it.

And, BTW, do you realize how ridiculous it is to suggest that on a team that had one of the worst defenses in NFL history and that lost it's QB during the 5th game and had much of it's O-Line out most of the year that the TE was the reason the team didn't win.

Do you remember when #82 came back from retirement and him and swaim had 3 tds in the first 2 games and then put up zero tds for 13 straight games. Then Jarwin got 3 tds in a meaningless game against the Giants.

You said all of the exact same stuff you're saying now. Btw.

7 yrs later you're still preaching this everydown te scheme w no substitution.

7 years it hasn't been good enough.

I know it's everybody else's fault these tes have no red zone scoring ability or big play capabilities Lmao

You can't even visualize a single passing snap without a Brokeback te in the formation can ya.

Better skilled players are on the bench rotting away why Schultz and Jarwin are dominating those Passing snaps just like Beasely

 

[OmerV]

Do you remember when #82 came back from retirement and him and swaim had 3 tds in the first 2 games and then put up zero tds for 13 straight games. Then Jarwin got 3 tds in a meaningless game against the Giants.

You said all of the exact same stuff you're saying now. Btw.

7 yrs later you're still preaching this everydown te scheme w no substitution.

7 years it hasn't been good enough.

I know it's everybody else's fault these tes have no red zone scoring ability or big play capabilities

Lmao

lol, no because it didn't happen. Swaim only had one TD in his 4 years as a Cowboy, and it was in the year Witten first retired. Swaim wasn't with Dallas the year Witten came back.

But hey, you make up stuff. It's what you do.

In any case, when Witten came back he was 37 years old, coming off a year of retirement, and had been declining before that. That has no remote relation to what is going on now.

On top of that, I've never said the team can't go a single down without a TE, and I clearly felt Witten was not an every down guy at that point in his career. What you argued was a TE didn't make sense at all unless he was the level of Kelce or Gronk, which is nonsense, and that's what I told you, along with the fact you have no real concept of what a TE's role is. You still don't.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He seems to be turning into a leaner, faster Gronk.
The thing with him is, he has developed a lot in just last season to this season.
That kind of tells me, he hasn't hit his peak yet.

Witten though... people forget you when you are gone. That dude when he was younger, was one of the best TEs that ever played the game.
Schultz has a way to go to earn that.

I don't personally feel Gronk is even remotely on par with Witten.
Gronk got to play on exceptional teams, with an exception scheme.

Plus, Witten was always on the field. Gronk, not so much lol.

Witten had to play a lot of his career with total crap coaching, and teams.
Yet he still excelled... The connection he and Romo had, definitely helped.
Witten often was the only choice for the ball in Dallas for a lot of seasons.

Being compared to Gronk isn't a bad thing either. Dude is an awesome TE.

I hope Schultz gets to Witten level though... and he very well may. Because his
skills are really growing fast.

You mean the scheme that made Witten effectively the go-to, #1 receiving target with multi 100+ target seasons wasn’t a good fit for him?

I’ve heard it all now…

 

[zerofill]

You mean the scheme that made Witten effectively the go-to, #1 receiving target with multi 100+ target seasons wasn’t a good fit for him?

I’ve heard it all now…

No, I mean the **** teams Dallas put together forced him into being the #1 target.

Like I said:

Witten often was the only choice for the ball in Dallas for a lot of seasons.

Defenses knew to watch for him and still failed to stop him.

 

[CowboysExchange]

lol, no because it didn't happen. Swaim only had one TD in his 4 years as a Cowboy, and it was in the year Witten first retired. Swaim wasn't with Dallas the year Witten came back.

But hey, you make up stuff. It's what you do.

In any case, when Witten came back he was 37 years old, coming off a year of retirement, and had been declining before that. That has no remote relation to what is going on now.

On top of that, I've never said the team can't go a single down without a TE, and I clearly felt Witten was not an every down guy at that point in his career. What you argued was a TE didn't make sense at all unless he was the level of Kelce or Gronk, which is nonsense, and that's what I told you, along with the fact you have no real concept of what a TE's role is. You still don't.

I do understand the role. I just think they are too involved on way too many passing snaps.
Especially the ones they don't have the skillsets for.

But this offense usually plays a te on every passing snap and it doesn't matter who the coach is. That's all I've been arguing for 7 + years.

Witten didn't come off of the field for 15 years.

 

[OmerV]

I do understand the role. I just think they are too involved on way too many passing snaps.
Especially the ones they don't have the skillsets for.

But this offense usually plays a te on every passing snap and it doesn't matter who the coach is. That's all I've been arguing for 7 + years.

Witten didn't come off of the field for 15 years.

No you don't. You have never expressed any understanding that their role is any different than that of a WR.

By the way, another 6 catches for 79 yards … Schultz has the 4th most yards in the NFL now, so even if you don't recognize a TE as anything different from a receiver, Schultz is being highly effective.

As for Witten, again, that's irrelevant for today, but if you keep bringing him up so I'll say most of his career he should have been on the field all the time. Later in his career, when he was older and less effective, he should not have been, so that's a handful of years the team should have changed things up, not all 15.

 

[BAT]

 

[CowboysExchange]

No you don't. You have never expressed any understanding that their role is any different than that of a WR.

By the way, another 6 catches for 79 yards … Schultz has the 4th most yards in the NFL now, so even if you don't recognize a TE as anything different from a receiver, Schultz is being highly effective.

As for Witten, again, that's irrelevant for today, but if you keep bringing him up so I'll say most of his career he should have been on the field all the time. Later in his career, when he was older and less effective, he should not have been, so that's a handful of years the team should have changed things up, not all 15.

He looks ok Rogers. He's better than the shell of #82 was his last 6+ years. Frfr

Ya gotta realize we're playing like the worst team in the league w the 1-3 Giants. Btw

Schultz is still not that great on contested catches. I'll be more impressed if he gets 6 catches against Ne for 79 yards. Js

He still isn't a deep baller, a jump baller, or a great red zone target. So there is plenty of room for substitution.

Im still going w Wilson or Pollard over Schultz on 3rd and 8+yd downs, 2 minute drills, and critical downs. Wilson is a baller imo.

They are simply better skilled players and more clutch than Schultz.

Jarwin hasn't done much at all. Never did but he was named the starter. Same for Swaim and Old man Witten for 6+ years too long. The 12 personell is dead as far as I'm concerned.

There just isn't too many everydown passing snap tes in the game bro. You gotta be a complete and clutch receiving te to play every passing snap

We'll see how it goes against Ne on grass this week. Ne isn't that great this year as a team.

But the Cowboys arent that good on the grass against good coaching. Cooper isn't as good on Grass either.

I think the Cowboys are a better team but I will take the 3 points this week.

 

[OmerV]

He looks ok Rogers. He's better than the shell of #82 was his last 6+ years. Frfr

Ya gotta realize we're playing like the worst team in the league w the 1-3 Giants. Btw

Schultz is still not that great on contested catches. I'll be more impressed if he gets 6 catches against Ne for 79 yards. Js

He still isn't a deep baller, a jump baller, or a great red zone target. So there is plenty of room for substitution.

Im still going w Wilson or Pollard over Schultz on 3rd and 8+yd downs, 2 minute drills, and critical downs. Wilson is a baller imo.

They are simply better skilled players and more clutch than Schultz.

Jarwin hasn't done much at all. Never did but he was named the starter. Same for Swaim and Old man Witten for 6+ years too long. The 12 personell is dead as far as I'm concerned.

There just isn't too many everydown passing snap tes in the game bro. You gotta be a complete and clutch receiving te to play every passing snap

We'll see how it goes against Ne on grass this week. Ne isn't that great this year as a team.

But the Cowboys arent that good on the grass against good coaching. Cooper isn't as good on Grass either.

I think the Cowboys are a better team but I will take the 3 points this week.

Did you really minimize Schultz accomplishments by saying one game out of 5 was against a bad team? lol You won't stop at anything to fabricate a nonsensical point will you?

You like to talk about "jump ballers" … jump balls are a tiny part of the game, and not something you need from every receiver. Hell, Kelce isn't even a "jump baller". Getting open and catching ability is infinitely more important. And really, now much better would we be with Noah Brown on that front anyway?

As for "deep ballers", again, your ignorance of actual football, and video game mindset, is showing. Other than hail mary situations offenses don't just send everyone deep. They make defenses cover multiple looks and multiple routes in multiple areas. You want the defense spread all over the field covering people to make it easier for individuals to get open. You don't want safeties able to just sit back covering deep responsibility on multiple receivers all running routes at similar depths. You really have zero understanding that it all works in sync and in a system.

As for there not being that many "every down TE's", Schultz is playing 72% of offensive snaps, not every down.