Seattle's Rushmen

[Toruk_Makto]

LDE - Michael Bennett (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year, 9)
LDT - Tony McDaniel (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year 2.5)
RDT - Brandon Mebane (2007, 3rd round draft pick, most sacks in a year 5.5)
RDE - Cliff Avril (free agent 2013, most sacks in a season 11)

Note that there really isn't a standout here.

I'm not against getting a good pass rusher in free agency this year, but I think we shouldn't break the bank

Now all we need is an Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancler and Bobby Wagner and we can get by without all world defensive lineman!

 

[Galian Beast]

This is starting to sound like the whole "our OL is good enough" crap we put up with for years. When the team finally committed enough resources to the OL the entire offense came alive. Lesson learned? I hope so,,, I like Mincey as a player but this DL needs more than that, they need a real deal, gotta account for, pass rushing DE/DT. Drafting one would be nice, but there's a "miss" factor that must be considered and if the player becomes a stud you've gotta pay him eventually. There's only a few positions on the field where a big fat FA contract is tolerable and supreme pass-rushing DE is one of them. Charles Haley anyone?

I think you're trying to inject your own conclusion to what I said. I'm not saying we shouldn't invest in the defensive line or that the defensive line is good enough.

First off there is no Charles Haley in free agency right now, second the salary cap is a consideration now.

I think you go out and you sign a free agent defensive end and probably a free agent defensive tackle. That being said, I think the draft right now should focus on replacing players that are being priced out of our team. Namely Murray and Free. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still invest draft picks on the defensive line, but to expect that those draft picks where we are drafting them are going to produce similarly as our offensive line, isn't realistic. We drafted Martin and Smith very early in the draft. You can get a center late in the first round and probably have him be the first center taken. Defensive end and defensive tackle aren't quite like that.

It also took a lot of time, time in which we don't really have anymore. We have to get better fast, and make sure we don't downgrade if we can prevent it. This means making sure we keep a talented running back on the roster, and we can probably get away with getting a tackle in the first three rounds if we invest enough on defense in free agency.

 

[waving monkey]

Bringing up the Seattle example feeds the little disagreement xwalker and I have had over Suh...

The first is the cost... He doesn't have a problem with it (paying Suh $12mil+ per season), it makes me physically ill.

is 12 million the market for Suh? I surprised it's that low

 

[Galian Beast]

Bringing up the Seattle example feeds the little disagreement xwalker and I have had over Suh...

The first is the cost... He doesn't have a problem with it (paying Suh $12mil+ per season), it makes me physically ill.

I agree with you there.

First, I think Suh is going to cost 16-18 million a year, which is QB money. The number of defensive studs you can get with that kind of money makes signing Suh ridiculous.

Assuming the Cowboys interview Hardy, investigate what actually happened, and like him, I wouldn't mind him getting 8-10 million a year, but that's probably the most I would go for a defensive player.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I'd be VERY surprised if Suh got 16-18M a year. Nevermind that the only thing important is 3 year take and guaranteed money.

I couldn't care less about AAV. Useless figure in the NFL

 

[Galian Beast]

Now all we need is an Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancler and Bobby Wagner and we can get by without all world defensive lineman!

I think you could get

Cromartie, Tillman, and Hill and while it wouldn't be the legion of boom it would be pretty good.

Secondary
LCB - Cromartie
RCB - Scandrick (Tillman in the nickel)
NCB - Scandrick
FS - Hill
SS - Church, Wilcox

Linebackers
WLB - Lee
MLB - McClain
SLB - Durant
Swing - Hitchens

Defensive Line
RDE - Level 1 or Level 2 Free Agent, Demarcus Lawrence
DT - Crawford, Okoye/Melton/Draft Pick
DT - Fairley/Paea, Brent/Hayden/Draft Pick
LDE - Mincey, (Crawford), Gardener, Draft Pick

I think that's a pretty good defense for the offense we have assuming we can get Gurley or Gordon and a right tackle relatively early.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

is 12 million the market for Suh? I surprised it's that low

That's why I slipped the "+" in there. I think Suh's contract is going to be higher... $14-$16mil per year on average and I think that's ridiculous.

 

[Galian Beast]

I'd be VERY surprised if Suh got 16-18M a year. Nevermind that the only thing important is 3 year take and guaranteed money.

I couldn't care less about AAV. Useless figure in the NFL

Keep telling yourself it is useless when it isn't.

Also Suh is seen as the best defensive tackle in football, he'll get that because that is what the market dictates.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Assuming the Cowboys interview Hardy, investigate what actually happened, and like him, I wouldn't mind him getting 8-10 million a year, but that's probably the most I would go for a defensive player.

Agreed. I think Hardy at say $10 mil per year is the better buy.

 

[Galian Beast]

That's why I slipped the "+" in there. I think Suh's contract is going to be higher... $14-$16mil per year on average and I think that's ridiculous.

Gerald McCoy gets 15.86 million per year. Suh's negotiations are going to start right there.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Gerald McCoy gets 15.86 million per year. Suh's negotiations are going to start right there.

That's true.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Gerald McCoy gets 15.86 million per year. Suh's negotiations are going to start right there.

That may keep the Bills from being able to keep Hughes because Darius' contract is coming up next year and he's going to cost $15m per season and with the Mario Williams' contract, that's a ton of money to have invested in 3 defensive linemen.

 

[Nightman]

I agree with you there.

First, I think Suh is going to cost 16-18 million a year, which is QB money. The number of defensive studs you can get with that kind of money makes signing Suh ridiculous.

Assuming the Cowboys interview Hardy, investigate what actually happened, and like him, I wouldn't mind him getting 8-10 million a year, but that's probably the most I would go for a defensive player.

I think we are missing the mark with these "how other teams do it" threads. Trying to copy other teams and reacting to trends is what got JJones into big trouble in the past and was how we ended up switching to the 3-4 with no personnel for it. Garrett has a process and it seems to be working. The D will get some more resources this year.

Not saying we shouldn't always be aware of works for other teams, but they got Sherman for a 5th and RWilson for a 3rd. They also wasted a ton of money and resources on WRs and TEs. SRice(big money), PHarvin(money and picks), ZMiller(big money) cost them big time. With the right WRs maybe they don't have Lockette in the game on the most important play. And they wouldn't even have been in the game if they didn't get a miracle contribution from a practice squad WR, Chris Matthews.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Keep telling yourself it is useless when it isn't.

Also Suh is seen as the best defensive tackle in football, he'll get that because that is what the market dictates.

Only thing important is Guaranteed money. And 3 year haul. After that it's almost always easy to cut a player with little dead money assuming you don't restructure them endlessley. Watt checks in at 16.6M AAV but gets 43M in the first two years. So tell me again how AAV matters?

 

[Galian Beast]

That may keep the Bills from being able to keep Hughes because Darius' contract is coming up next year and he's going to cost $15m per season and with the Mario Williams' contract, that's a ton of money to have invested in 3 defensive linemen.

That's exactly right. I'd love to relieve the Bills or the Lions of a defensive linemen, just not Suh. Whoever gets Suh is going to break the bank for him, and it's going to cripple their team elsewhere. I don't want that to be us. Let the Giants sign him, they'll never be a competitive team again.

 

[Galian Beast]

Only thing important is Guaranteed money. And 3 year haul. After that it's almost always easy to cut a player with little dead money assuming you don't restructure them endlessley. Watt checks in at 16.6M AAV but gets 43M in the first two years. So tell me again how AAV matters?

When it comes to these cornerstone players and assuming they aren't entirely frontloaded, it means that they're going to be around for a while. It isn't just guaranteed money, it can also be signing bonus. The ability to cut a player isn't the only thing that matters when you look at their contract, especially when you are relying on that player to be a catalyst on your team.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That's exactly right. I'd love to relieve the Bills or the Lions of a defensive linemen, just not Suh. Whoever gets Suh is going to break the bank for him, and it's going to cripple their team elsewhere. I don't want that to be us. Let the Giants sign him, they'll never be a competitive team again.

I agree with you 100%.

JAS = Just Avoid Suh

 

[Galian Beast]

I think we are missing the mark with these "how other teams do it" threads. Trying to copy other teams and reacting to trends is what got JJones into big trouble in the past and was how we ended up switching to the 3-4 with no personnel for it. Garrett has a process and it seems to be working. The D will get some more resources this year.

Not saying we shouldn't always be aware of works for other teams, but they got Sherman for a 5th and RWilson for a 3rd. They also wasted a ton of money and resources on WRs and TEs. SRice(big money), PHarvin(money and picks), ZMiller(big money) cost them big time. With the right WRs maybe they don't have Lockette in the game on the most important play. And they wouldn't even have been in the game if they didn't get a miracle contribution from a practice squad WR, Chris Matthews.

I'm not saying to copy anyone. I'm telling you what our team can do reasonably based on what is going on around the league.

Is it reasonable to draft a QB that isn't going to help Romo win a super bowl, meanwhile, will be close to becoming a free agent by the time Romo retires? No. We didn't go 3-4 because Jerry was copying NFL trends, he went 3-4 because Parcells wanted to run the defense, and that was the defense he ran.

I'm telling you that you don't need to have a stud pass rusher and there is plenty of evidence for that when you look around the league, not just at one team or another. You need to have a team that is properly fleshed out. Having star players doesn't always get the job done, especially when that player becomes injured or is game planned against. That has been Dallas' undoing in the past relying totally on DeMarcus Ware.

 

[Galian Beast]

The only place where it makes sense to get a catalytic player is in the draft. Paying for them outright... just hardly ever works out, at least not at full market price.

Let's bring in some value on the defense across the board, and keep the price of our offense lower by drafting a running back rather than signing Murray. We can slowly but surely bring talent into the defense through the draft to replace players piece by piece, but with the age of Romo we can't afford to slowly build this defense through the draft.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The only place where it makes sense to get a catalytic player is in the draft. Paying for them outright... just hardly ever works out, at least not at full market price.

Let's bring in some value on the defense across the board, and keep the price of our offense lower by drafting a running back rather than signing Murray. We can slowly but surely bring talent into the defense through the draft to replace players piece by piece, but with the age of Romo we can't afford to slowly build this defense through the draft.

Agreed.

For that $15 mil that goes to Suh, the Cowboys could have 3 good players that will greatly help depth across the board.