Seattle's Rushmen

[Galian Beast]

I just don't value those mid level guys as much

Suh makes everyone on the DL better, Hayden is not in his universe.
DLaw is like a free draft pick with experience
Lee was dominating before he got hurt
Carr came on this year and Cromartie is a minimal upgrade if any, same with any FS FA
Marinelli teaches turnovers, so they are not as random as it seems

I think you're devaluing the guys that Suh plays with.

The reality is that they are high value guys from end to end.

There is no comparing Hayden and Suh, but there is a lot of quality in between.

You think Suh is a quick fix, but the reality is that he isn't going to transform this defense no more than DeMarcus Ware did by himself.

Carr didn't come on, he just didn't suck as badly as he had earlier in the year or last year, he still wasn't very good. Cromartie is a major upgrade. You're obsession with a star name has blinded you to the reality that a lot of these other players are quite good at what they do. We have a ton of players starting for us that wouldn't start for other teams.

 

[Nightman]

I think you're devaluing the guys that Suh plays with.

The reality is that they are high value guys from end to end.

There is no comparing Hayden and Suh, but there is a lot of quality in between.

You think Suh is a quick fix, but the reality is that he isn't going to transform this defense no more than DeMarcus Ware did by himself.

Carr didn't come on, he just didn't suck as badly as he had earlier in the year or last year, he still wasn't very good. Cromartie is a major upgrade. You're obsession with a star name has blinded you to the reality that a lot of these other players are quite good at what they do. We have a ton of players starting for us that wouldn't start for other teams.

It's not an obsession with a name. I have followed him since Nebraska and he is 100% as good as it gets at DT.

I realize we probably won't get him but he should be the first option.

Putting him down doesn't make those other players better.

 

[tm1119]

Agree that the most expensive options aren't necessarily the best. I see plenty of options that can help us. Pernell McPhee, Brandon Graham, George Johnson, Jabaal Sheard, Akeem Ayers. 1 of them + Stephen Pea + a healthy full year of D Law + Crawford in his 2nd year of the system and that D line is WAY better than last year. And that isn't even factoring in the addition of a 1st or 2nd round pick to the d line as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

It's not an obsession with a name. I have followed him since Nebraska and he is 100% as good as it gets at DT.

I realize we probably won't get him but he should be the first option.

Putting him down doesn't make those other players better.

Again, no one is putting him down. I hate the hyperbolic straw man argument.

Not wanting to pay a single player 16-18 million dollars is not putting them down.

That's a terrible way to budget.

It's one thing to have to pay a QB that type of money, but if you pay a defensive player that too, on top of paying Dez and Tyron. Where do you think the money is coming from?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I think you're devaluing the guys that Suh plays with.

The reality is that they are high value guys from end to end.

There is no comparing Hayden and Suh, but there is a lot of quality in between.

You think Suh is a quick fix, but the reality is that he isn't going to transform this defense no more than DeMarcus Ware did by himself.

Carr didn't come on, he just didn't suck as badly as he had earlier in the year or last year, he still wasn't very good. Cromartie is a major upgrade. You're obsession with a star name has blinded you to the reality that a lot of these other players are quite good at what they do. We have a ton of players starting for us that wouldn't start for other teams.

You act like people who want to bring in Suh simply think you sign him and you're done and free to use a 2nd on a TE.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Again, no one is putting him down. I hate the hyperbolic straw man argument.

Not wanting to pay a single player 16-18 million dollars is not putting them down.

That's a terrible way to budget.

It's one thing to have to pay a QB that type of money, but if you pay a defensive player that too, on top of paying Dez and Tyron. Where do you think the money is coming from?

You then have to draft well and make sure you're getting production from all contracts you do have on the books. Let me ask you this... If Suh was homegrown would you be advocating letting him walk?

Or would you be saying you have to reward your guys? If we had Watt would you be upset giving him "qb money?"

 

[Galian Beast]

You act like people who want to bring in Suh simply think you sign him and you're done and free to use a 2nd on a TE.

How much money do you think Dallas has... you aren't paying attention.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

How much money do you think Dallas has... you aren't paying attention.

Dallas can get 50m under the cap and has a full compliment of premium draft picks.

Our window is 3 years. We have a good core on offense that is championship caliber today. The cap is set to rise 20M over the next two seasons.

Get it done.

 

[Galian Beast]

You then have to draft well and make sure you're getting production from all contracts you do have on the books. Let me ask you this... If Suh was homegrown would you be advocating letting him walk?

Or would you be saying you have to reward your guys? If we had Watt would you be upset giving him "qb money?"

I've often suggested trading Dez if he needs to break the bank.

 

[Nightman]

You act like people who want to bring in Suh simply think you sign him and you're done and free to use a 2nd on a TE.

The mid level guys I want to sign are McClain, Carter/Durant, Spencer and Moore on D and Free/Parnell, Leary, Beasely on O

Then draft a DE, a CB, an OT, a LB, etc...

Add Lee and a full year of DLaw, Brent and Claiborne for depth and this D is much better.

 

[xwalker]

LDE - Michael Bennett (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year, 9)
LDT - Tony McDaniel (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year 2.5)
RDT - Brandon Mebane (2007, 3rd round draft pick, most sacks in a year 5.5)
RDE - Cliff Avril (free agent 2013, most sacks in a season 11)

Note that there really isn't a standout here.

I'm not against getting a good pass rusher in free agency this year, but I think we shouldn't break the bank

The Cowboys would be fine with the 2014 Cowboys DL if they had the Seahawks back 7 for 2015.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

That's a valid point.

But remember the offensive line took 3 offseasons to rebuild. I think this is the 2nd offseason for this defensive line.

Seems like it has been four since the Tyron pick, but either way it took 3 first picks that were hits to pull it off. If Dallas can bat a thousand with their DL picks then maybe they can build it up before Romo is gone,,,, or not!

That's the problem exactly.

Let's argue and say they hit on Crawford, though I still think the jury is out as I'm not ready to anoint him yet.

Let's assume that they hit on Lawrence too. How long did it take for Crawford to develop? How long will it take Lawrence? How long will it take any rookies drafted this year?

When you're drafting in the late part of rounds, you aren't drafting to get starters. This is our new reality.

You're drafting players to develop them, which takes time Romo doesn't have.

Fill the roster with defensive free agents. And keep the price down by drafting players we can develop.

It will certainly be interesting to see what the Cowboys do in FA and the draft. They've recently been methodical and patient building the team but some of that "patience" has to be credited to the cap hell they were in. Now that they're on the cusp of contention with a QB near retirement will they waiver from the process and go all in? My guess is they might splurge on a dominant DL like Hardy or Suh but stick with the mid-level FAs everywhere else,,, which is fine by me because everyone with a dominant vet pass rusher is paying top dollar for him, if Dallas is going to have one then they will have to pay whether they draft him or not.

 

[Galian Beast]

The Cowboys would be fine with the 2014 Cowboys DL if they had the Seahawks back 7 for 2015.

Again, I think there is some middle ground here. Not to mention the Cowboys have a better offense than Seattle. We don't need to match Seattle's defense overnight. We do need to get much better though. There are players out there that could help our secondary in the short term, and we should get them. Signing Suh would make that difficult though.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I've always felt like as a whole they are a great unit but there's not one 1st tier talent on that line. Maybe Bennett comes the closest.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

I know what Seattle do, but I want a star rusher here in Dallas... by committee is fine, and may work for some (not to mention Seattle's db's)... But give me someone who is gonna strike fear into the opponent, make everyone around him better....... I hope it happens in the draft.... we are overdue a defense gem on draft day...

 

[BlindFaith]

The Cowboys would be fine with the 2014 Cowboys DL if they had the Seahawks back 7 for 2015.

That's not even remotely true. If you give any QB 6 seconds to throw the ball they are going to find an open guy, no matter who is covering them.

I know everyone is in love with Mincey now. Last year it was Selvie. They are JAGs. We have absolutely no one on the DL that a team has to game plan for. No one that they have to account for. No one they need to double team, shift protections to. Crawford is the only one currently that is close to that. Maybe...maybe, Lawerence, but over all he wasn't all that impressive. I think hopefully having him bulk up more and move him over to the strongside might be a good fit.

This defense was, and is, bad. Look at the starting QBs we faced this year. Look at the high number of turnovers we got. The schedule next year will not be nearly as favorable as it was this year and can we really count on getting the same number of turnovers? No.

We have bodies that can play inside. Crawford will be the man at the 3T. I still have reservations about this due to his lack of bulk, but here's hoping he can come into camp at around 295 and stay healthy all year. He could be a guy that commands a double. Brent will be better with a full off season and is better than Hayden. I'm interested in what Okoye will bring. Bishop should be better. Gardner has been working hard and has "reshaped" his body. I don't think he's a good fit on the outside, but maybe T Crawford lite? Then you have Whaley who was redshirted due to injury. Lot of talk about him being a lot like Melton. And let's not forget about Jack Crawford. He was starting to show a little something when they moved him inside.

I wouldn't look to FA to find any interior guys. I roll with Crawford, Brent, Bishop, (Okoye, Gardner, J Crawford, Whaley). Maybe draft a 3T if a good one is BPA.

DE is where we are hurting. We have no speed nor athleticism at the position. Lawrence is the closest guy. But he would have to make a big leap to be THE guy next year. Mincey should be a backup at LDE. I would love to pick up Derrick Morgan and play him at SDE. He might be under the radar due to playing in Tennessee and being a 3-4 guy. He has played DE and could bulk up some to get back into the 270 range. Hopefully he could be had for around 4-5 mill per year. For RDE I would really like to bring in Jason Worilds. He too has been playing as a 3-4 OLB. He can drop into coverage as well as rush the passer. His numbers where down this year and there is talk that Pitt wasn't really utilizing him fully. He may be a little more costly though. Looking at probably 8 mill per year.

Morgan--Brent--T Crawford--Worilds
Mincey--Bishop--Okoye------Lawerence
------------Gardner--J Crawford-------------

Maybe throw in there a DT in the draft. But this doesn't break the bank and gives us a ton more athleticism on the DL. Getting two players for less than the price of Suh. Suh makes no sense. This also frees us up to go BPA in the draft.

I'd also like to upgrade the Safety spot. Maybe a guy like Devin McCourty. He could be a bit pricey though but would be a great addition. I would then look at playing Church in some nickel LB situations as he would be the one McCourty replaces.

With those additions it would free you up to go Corner or Running Back in round 1. Maybe even drop down a few spots and grab an additional pick.

 

[xwalker]

That's not even remotely true. If you give any QB 6 seconds to throw the ball they are going to find an open guy, no matter who is covering them.

The Cowboys were a play away from going to the NFC Championship game to play a team that they beat in the regular season. There is a high high probability that with the Seahawks back 7 that they win both of those games and make it to the Super Bowl. It's not the perfect situation, but with the Cowboys offense, it would definitely be good enough.

 

[EPL0c0]

LDE - Michael Bennett (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year, 9)
LDT - Tony McDaniel (free agent 2013, most sacks in a year 2.5)
RDT - Brandon Mebane (2007, 3rd round draft pick, most sacks in a year 5.5)
RDE - Cliff Avril (free agent 2013, most sacks in a season 11)

Note that there really isn't a standout here.

I'm not against getting a good pass rusher in free agency this year, but I think we shouldn't break the bank

Sacks are a good looking stat, no doubt. Demarcus Ware had a lot of sacks playing with a so-so defense in Dallas. But a pass rush that can pressure a QB on a consistant basis and force a QB to rush or causes a disruption in timing is just as if not more valuable... there's just no real stat to account for that pressure.

I'll take 3 or 4 DLine guys that can get into a QBs face over 1 guy that can rack up 1.5sacks/game.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I think you're devaluing the guys that Suh plays with.

The reality is that they are high value guys from end to end.

There is no comparing Hayden and Suh, but there is a lot of quality in between.

You think Suh is a quick fix, but the reality is that he isn't going to transform this defense no more than DeMarcus Ware did by himself.

Carr didn't come on, he just didn't suck as badly as he had earlier in the year or last year, he still wasn't very good. Cromartie is a major upgrade. You're obsession with a star name has blinded you to the reality that a lot of these other players are quite good at what they do. We have a ton of players starting for us that wouldn't start for other teams.

Suh is the guy who is doubled on the line every play. Not his teammates.

 

[xwalker]

Again, no one is putting him down. I hate the hyperbolic straw man argument.

Not wanting to pay a single player 16-18 million dollars is not putting them down.

That's a terrible way to budget.

It's one thing to have to pay a QB that type of money, but if you pay a defensive player that too, on top of paying Dez and Tyron. Where do you think the money is coming from?

Obviously 18M would be excessive for a non-QB, but we don't really know what kind of contract he will get. There will be some conservative teams (Panthers) that won't sign a controversial player to a big contract and there will be teams that already have quality starters on their DL. He has already make big money so it's also possible that he will not want to go to a crap team like the Raiders even though they have the most cap space, IIRC.

To me, Suh seems like a guy that would do anything to win and will want to sign with a team that has a chance to win.

My guess is that his contract averages about 13M.