News: Several Former Cowboys make pre-lim list of HOF Nominees

[perrykemp]

Example 1A: Dave Robinson, Packers' LB in the 60s, (3 Pro Bowls, 1 All-Pro) goes on to serve on the HOF's Board of Directors for 27 years. He gets voted in by the Seniors Committee two years ago, and is now a Hall of Famer.

Chuck Howley, Cowboys' LB in the 60s (6 Pro Bowls, 5 All-Pro, SBMVP) doesn't even get a sniff.

I believe Dave Robinson being select to the HOF was a gross injustice to a number of other LBs including Howley.

 

[KJJ]

I believe Dave Robinson being select to the HOF was a gross injustice to a number of other LBs including Howley.

Howley and Robinson's stats were very similar but Robinson's Packers beat Howley's Cowboys in 2 championship games. Robinson played for the better teams which got him the nod over Howley and some of the other LB's during that era. Go compare their stats it's hard to make an argument for Howley over Robinson.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Agreed. Chuck Howley, Harvey Martin and Cliff Harris should already be enshrined. As for the modern Cowboys - Haley, Woody and Jimmy are no brainers.

Funny how half those guys are not even in Cowboys ROH. More pathetic than funny actually. But Jerry is the professed football man. SMH

if you put everyone in the ROH does it not diminish the honour?

 

[jterrell]

My sense is that Darren Woodson and Leroy Butler tend to split any the '1990s dominant safety' vote.

If you go look at their stats, they are amazingly similar. Exact number of years played, both played in multiple Superbowls (Woodson won 3, Butler played in 2 and won 1 of them) -- Woodson has a more tackles, Butler has more interceptions and sacks -- they are roughly equal in forced fumbles and recovered fumbles, etc.

3 SB wins to 1 is pretty large tho!

Woody was the best player on this team once we went downhill.
He is one of the best safeties of all time.

 

[jterrell]

Jimmy doesn't come close to getting in NFL HOF.

55% overall win % is very mediocre. ((Garrett is at 52))
2 Super Bowls is all he has in claim to fame.
Just not enough longevity and he didn't have the high level success in his 2nd stop at Miami.

He absolutely deserves in our Ring of Honor tho!

 

[Doomsday101]

I would really like to see Walls get in. His chance gets slimmer every year that goes by.

 

[perrykemp]

3 SB wins to 1 is pretty large tho!

Woody was the best player on this team once we went downhill.
He is one of the best safeties of all time.

I think it's very close between the two hence the problem with the two canceling each-out for HOF votes.

Note: They both played 10 years in the NFL and their careers overlapped on 8 of them.

In favor of Woodson:

• 3 Superbowl appearances, 3 Superbowl victories (although he was a rookie backup for the 1st) -- Butler appeared in 2 and won 1
• More tackles than Butler (813 vs 721)
• More Probowls than Butler (5 vs 4)
• More Fumble Recovers (11 vs 10)

In favor of Butler:

• More interceptions than Woodson (38 vs 23)
• More sacks than Woodson (20.5 vs 11)
• More All-Pro selections than Woodson (4 vs 3)
• Butler was selected to the All-90s team at Safety - Woodson was not
• Butler had more forced fumbles (13 vs 12)

In summary, I think if you take an un-biased view it's really hard to say that Woodson obviously deserves to go in over Butler. One could make an argument they both deserve to go. The counter-argument is that while both were outstanding players, NEITHER quite make the bar for HOF safety.

Either way, looking at the stats above, it's not hard to see why they two guys split some votes.

 

[KJJ]

Woody was the best player on this team once we went downhill.
He is one of the best safeties of all time.

That certainly isn't going to help his chances. He was a very good safety for the Cowboys but was not a HOF player in my opinion. Here's a list of the 20 greatest safeties of all-time. It's obviously just one opinion and although many pan the bleacherreport it gives you an idea of where Woody would stand amongst the elite safeties. He's listed well down the list at #16 three spots higher than Cliff Harris.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/848432-20-best-safeties-in-nfl-history/page/6

 

[BAT]

if you put everyone in the ROH does it not diminish the honour?

You put in the players that are deserving, doing otherwise would absolutely tarnish the honor. Too Mean held Cowboys sack record before Ware broke it, Defensive Player of the Year, All Decades Team, SB Co-MVP, 7x pro bowler and a member of the famed Doomsday Defense. The Beautiful Harvey Martin is absolutely deserving and is long overdue for enshrinement in both HOF and ROH.

Captain Crash was on All Decades Team, 2x SB winner, 6x pro bowler and in ROH. Absolutely deserving of HOF enshrinement. Only players not enshrined in Hall after being on first team 70's All Decade Team are Cowboys (Cliff Harris and Drew Pearson).

Chuck Howley was an INT machine and one of the greatest coverage LBs to ever play. 6x pro bowler, 5x All Pro, SB champion, first defensive player to win SB MVP and still the only MVP from losing team. And the 4th player inducted into Cowboys Ring of Honor. Absolutely deserving of enshrinement.

Jimmy Johnson won championships at every level, as a player, college coach and in NFL. More importantly than reinvigorating the 4-3 defense in NFL and being the architect of the 90's Dynasty Teams which was the first to win 3 Super Bowls in 4 seasons (one more ring than the legendary Man in the funny hat), Jimmy created a swagger on/off the field and backed up by a dominance of play rarely seen before. His teams were always the intimidators and losing was unacceptable. He instilled a fear to lose as great as the will to win. Absolutely deserving of enshrinement.

Woody is the Cowboys All Time leading tackler, 3x SB champion, 6x pro bowler, hit like LB and covered like corner (one of hardest hitters in NFL per SI). Darren Woodson was the best defensive player and leader on best D during 90's Dynasty Teams. Should have been 90s All Decade selection (no real Cowboys were selected on D - insane) Absolutely deserving of enshrinement.

 

[BAT]

I think it's very close between the two hence the problem with the two canceling each-out for HOF votes.

Note: They both played 10 years in the NFL and their careers overlapped on 8 of them.

In favor of Woodson:

• 3 Superbowl appearances, 3 Superbowl victories (although he was a rookie backup for the 1st) -- Butler appeared in 2 and won 1
• More tackles than Butler (813 vs 721)
• More Probowls than Butler (5 vs 4)
• More Fumble Recovers (11 vs 10)

In favor of Butler:

• More interceptions than Woodson (38 vs 23)
• More sacks than Woodson (20.5 vs 11)
• More All-Pro selections than Woodson (4 vs 3)
• Butler was selected to the All-90s team at Safety - Woodson was not
• Butler had more forced fumbles (13 vs 12)

In summary, I think if you take an un-biased view it's really hard to say that Woodson obviously deserves to go in over Butler. One could make an argument they both deserve to go. The counter-argument is that while both were outstanding players, NEITHER quite make the bar for HOF safety.

Either way, looking at the stats above, it's not hard to see why they two guys split some votes.

Ronnie Lott is an All Time Great but he absolutely did not deserve selection to 90's All Decade Team over Woody.

 

[big dog cowboy]

if you put everyone in the ROH does it not diminish the honour?

Players like Howley, Martin and Harris got this team to 5 Super Bowls and won 2.

There isn't any argument wether they deserve to be in or not.

 

[Tabascocat]

Players like Howley, Martin and Harris got this team to 5 Super Bowls and won 2.

There isn't any argument wether they deserve to be in or not.

Unfortunately, the stadium doesn't have the circumference to hold all of the names that should be there

I am not going to go into detail on who should be in or not, but Jimmy and Martin should head that list.

 

[KB1122]

It's a joke. The 90s Bills have more inductees than the 90s Cowboys. It's a joke.

 

[KB1122]

I mean, Marv Levy is in the HoF. And Johnson isn't. I think there's a decent argument against JJ. But there isn't one when Marv Levy is in.

 

[d_dub88]

I think the fact that Jerry has only one playoff win since Jimmy left speaks volumes about Jimmy's legacy. Jerry's longstanding ineptitude as a GM benefits Jimmy with each passing year.

Jerry has a SB since Jimmy left.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think the fact that Jerry has only one playoff win since Jimmy left speaks volumes about Jimmy's legacy. Jerry's longstanding ineptitude as a GM benefits Jimmy with each passing year.

Well using that argument......what did Jimmy Johnson did in the salary cap era once leaving the Cowboys?

 

[popp1234]

Honestly, I only see one.....Haley(trying to come from a non-Cowboy fan perspective).

Yeah, I think Haley. What hurts Jimmy is that he did not coach long enough in the NFL.

 

[rynochop]

Haley should be in and while i loved what he did for the cowboys, i still dont think he should be in the ROH.

He should be in the 49ers 'roh'

 

[tyke1doe]

Well using that argument......what did Jimmy Johnson did in the salary cap era once leaving the Cowboys?

Apparently, you didn't see my original post.

Second, you can use a variation of that argument in any era.

Third, Jimmy Johnson's value to NFL history is based on what he did with the Cowboys. What he didn't accomplish with the Dolphins (although he had them in the playoffs) doesn't diminish from what he did with the Cowboys. He basically rebuilt this team from the dregs that it was to a dynasty - probably the last dominant dynasty/team in the NFL modern era.

 

[tyke1doe]

Jerry has a SB since Jimmy left.

I stand corrected. But I think you know what I meant.