News: Several Former Cowboys make pre-lim list of HOF Nominees

[perrykemp]

I mean, Marv Levy is in the HoF. And Johnson isn't. I think there's a decent argument against JJ. But there isn't one when Marv Levy is in.

Levy 4 Superbowl appearances with 0 wins vs Johnson with 2 Superbowl appearances and 2 wins.

If it's really just all about Superbowl wins I will agree with you. If it's not, then the case for JJ over Levy isn't nearly as clear cut.

 

[big dog cowboy]

It's a joke. The 90s Bills have more inductees than the 90s Cowboys. It's a joke.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Levy 4 Superbowl appearances with 0 wins vs Johnson with 2 Superbowl appearances and 2 wins.

If it's really just all about Superbowl wins I will agree with you. If it's not, then the case for JJ over Levy isn't nearly as clear cut.

Levy made the Bills a respected franchise.. went to the playoffs 8/9 years.... Also won in the CFL...
While I hope JJ gets in, I would understand if he didn't...... No way Marv didn't deserve his due.....

 

[waving monkey]

Once Haley got here the Cowboys went to the S

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Apparently, you didn't see my original post.

Second, you can use a variation of that argument in any era.

Third, Jimmy Johnson's value to NFL history is based on what he did with the Cowboys. What he didn't accomplish with the Dolphins (although he had them in the playoffs) doesn't diminish from what he did with the Cowboys. He basically rebuilt this team from the dregs that it was to a dynasty - probably the last dominant dynasty/team in the NFL modern era.

I don't deny that. I was referring to the thought that Jerry has only won one playoff game since Jimmy's departure(Actually done a little more than that including winning a Super Bowl with a Deion acquisition) . Jimmy didn't do much either so what does that mean? Jerry deserves sole credit for those rings? Of course not. Jimmy doesn't even get the chance to build anything if it wasn't for Jerry.

 

[Rack]

If McDonald is in (safety from 49ers and Cardinals) and Aneas Williams is in Woodson should be in. He was a more consistent player over a longer time and has more rings that those guys put together. If Ricky Jackson is in Haley should be in. Finally I think Moose gets in at some point. Best fullback of his generation by far.

Aenas was a CB

Also... although Moose was great, he wasn't the best "by far". Tom Rahman was right there with him.

 

[KJJ]

I mean, Marv Levy is in the HoF. And Johnson isn't. I think there's a decent argument against JJ. But there isn't one when Marv Levy is in.

The argument against Jimmy being in the HOF is he was only a HC for 9 years resulting in only 80 wins. Levy on the other hand was a HC for 17 years winning 143 games. Jimmy's lack of longevity hurts him but I feel he deserves to be in the HOF because he started off with a Cowboys team in 89 that's ranked by many as one of the top 10 worst teams in the NFL history and built that team into what many regard as one of the top 5 greatest teams in NFL history in only 4 years. Jimmy built the Cowboys from rock bottom into a dynasty that won back to back SB's.

He was the first coach to push the idea to rotate his defensive line to keep them fresh. He was the first coach to "extensively" trade back to get multiple picks and he was very successful doing it. There probably wasn't a HC in the league who had as much control over their team as Jimmy. He was the Cowboys unofficial GM and Jerry allowed him to handle all personnel decisions.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't deny that. I was referring to the thought that Jerry has only won one playoff game since Jimmy's departure(Actually done a little more than that including winning a Super Bowl with a Deion acquisition) . Jimmy didn't do much either so what does that mean? Jerry deserves sole credit for those rings? Of course not. Jimmy doesn't even get the chance to build anything if it wasn't for Jerry.

I'm not denying Jerry played a role in the Cowboys rise to the top. But if you look at what Jerry did WITH Jimmy and look at what Jerry did WITHOUT Jimmy, it's hard to argue that Jerry is doing better with the Cowboys than he did when Jimmy was around. I think Jerry is a great owner and wants to win. He will loosen the purse strings to get a particular player. And he's willing to take risks. For that, he should be commended. But risk-takers will end up bankrupt if they don't have proper guidance and wise advisers. The Cowboys, metaphorically speaking, are a bankrupt organization in that they haven't won but one playoff game in 17 years and counting. That points to the failure of a GM Jerry has been.

Besides, Jerry's not up for HOF induction. But if he was, he would deserve to get in too. He has done some things as owner that has made the league prosper.

 

[tyke1doe]

The argument against Jimmy being in the HOF is he was only a HC for 9 years resulting in only 80 wins. Levy on the other hand was a HC for 17 years winning 143 games. Jimmy's lack of longevity hurts him but I feel he deserves to be in the HOF because he started off with a Cowboys team in 89 that's ranked by many as one of the top 10 worst teams in the NFL history and built that team into what many regard as one of the top 5 greatest teams in NFL history in only 4 years. Jimmy built the Cowboys from rock bottom into a dynasty that won back to back SB's.

I remember how newspaper writers would mock Jimmy and Jerry, saying Jerry hired his college buddy to run the team even though he had no NFL coaching experience. They thought Jerry didn't know what he was doing and the country bumpkins would be shookered by the "wise" and "experienced" coaches/teams of the league.

Little did they realize that Jimmy and Jerry would shooker them. I remember after the Cowboys whipped the Giants 34-28 (actually, the Cowboys were up 28-0 before the Giants started coming back) Phil Simms (I think) said, "I didn't know they'd be this good, this fast."

Little did they realize Jimmy and Jerry would grow to hate each other.

Sigh. What could have been had Jimmy been a coach given to being with a team for years and Jerry could have stayed in the background and let Jimmy do his thing.

He was the first coach to push the idea to rotate his defensive line to keep them fresh. He was the first coach to "extensively" trade back to get multiple picks and he was very successful doing it. There probably wasn't a HC in the league who had as much control over their team as Jimmy. He was the Cowboys unofficial GM and Jerry allowed him to handle all personnel decisions.

I think the league is using his compensation draft chart as a model, is it not? Jimmy made other teams aware of how much you should give up for a particular player in the draft.

 

[tyke1doe]

It's a joke. The 90s Bills have more inductees than the 90s Cowboys. It's a joke.

The Bills have Levy, Kelly, Thomas, Reed and Lofton.
The Cowboys have Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, Allen and Deion.

Am I missing someone from the Bills?

 

[KJJ]

I remember how newspaper writers would mock Jimmy and Jerry, saying Jerry hired his college buddy to run the team even though he had no NFL coaching experience. They thought Jerry didn't know what he was doing and the country bumpkins would be shookered by the "wise" and "experienced" coaches/teams of the league.

Little did they realize that Jimmy and Jerry would shooker them. I remember after the Cowboys whipped the Giants 34-28 (actually, the Cowboys were up 28-0 before the Giants started coming back) Phil Simms (I think) said, "I didn't know they'd be this good, this fast."

Little did they realize Jimmy and Jerry would grow to hate each other.

Sigh. What could have been had Jimmy been a coach given to being with a team for years and Jerry could have stayed in the background and let Jimmy do his thing.

I remember those articles and all the mocking of Jerry and Jimmy saying they didn't know what they were doing and after that first year I'm sure a lot of us were wondering if they knew what they were doing. I was more than just a little worried after their first year never expecting a 1-15 season. I know sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward but that season caused many to doubt the moves Jimmy and Jerry were making. Everyone expected the Cowboys to draft Aikman in 89 but no one expected them to follow it up by taking Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft costing the Cowboys their #1 pick the following year.

The Cowboys trading their best player Walker 5 games into the 89 season made many scratch their heads. No college coach had ever had great success at the NFL level so the odds weren't in Jimmy's favor especially with the major rebuilding job he had ahead of him. I was real discouraged after that 1-15 season but felt a lot better about things after Jimmy's second season even though the Cowboys won only 7 games. You could see progress being made and by year 3 there was no doubt Jimmy had the Cowboys on the right track and was about to turn them into something special.

 

[Gameover]

Jay Novacek and jimmy should be in the ring of honor. Jay has more right to be in there than Charles Haley. Jj snuck Haley in by finally letting media fav(Drew) in. That jerry is slick!

 

[Gameover]

The Bills have Levy, Kelly, Thomas, Reed and Lofton.
The Cowboys have Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, Allen and Deion.

Am I missing someone from the Bills?

Deion is not a cowboy

 

[KJJ]

Jay Novacek and jimmy should be in the ring of honor. Jay has more right to be in there than Charles Haley. Jj snuck Haley in by finally letting media fav(Drew) in. That jerry is slick!

Why do you feel Novacek has more right to be in the ROH than Haley? I'm pissed that Haley is in the ROH because he wasn't a true Dallas Cowboy. He spent most of his career in SF helping the 49ers to 2 SB wins and ended his career in SF. Novacek spent 5 of his 12 seasons with the Cardinals and although he was a very good player for the Cowboys and a key cog to their success he didn't impact the team nearly as much as Haley.

It was the trade for Haley that put the Cowboys over the top. Had Haley stayed in SF it likely would have been the Niners winning all those SB's. Charles Haley is a HOF player and Jay Novacek is not. Other than the triplets no player impacted the 90's Cowboys like Haley. As upset as I am with his ROH induction he deserves the honor more than Novacek.

 

[Gameover]

Why do you feel Novacek has more right to be in the ROH than Haley? I'm pissed that Haley is in the ROH because he wasn't a true Dallas Cowboy. He spent most of his career in SF helping the 49ers to 2 SB wins and ended his career in SF. Novacek spent 5 of his 12 seasons with the Cardinals and although he was a very good player for the Cowboys and a key cog to their success he didn't impact the team nearly as much as Haley.

It was the trade for Haley that put the Cowboys over the top. Had Haley stayed in SF it likely would have been the Niners winning all those SB's. Charles Haley is a HOF player and Jay Novacek is not. Other than the triplets no player impacted the 90's Cowboys like Haley. As upset as I am with his ROH induction he deserves the honor more than Novacek.

I believe the Cows would've won with or without Haley.

That Haley missing piece talk is media regergitation. Like McGwire and Sosa "saved" baseball. Neither are true. Baseball would have survived and the Cowboys would've won sb!

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Deion is not a cowboy

He's a Cowboy as far as one of those championships are concerned.

 

[KJJ]

I believe the Cows would've won with or without Haley.

That Haley missing piece talk is media regergitation. Like McGwire and Sosa "saved" baseball. Neither are true. Baseball would have survived and the Cowboys would've won sb!

That's your opinion Haley was an incredibly disruptive player who had a huge impact on games. Both SF and the Cowboys were the best teams in football in 92 and 93 and the Cowboys had to get past the Niners in title games those years to win back to back SB's. SF was difficult enough to beat in those 2 title games without them having Haley. The Cowboys having Haley and the 49ers not having him impacted those title games. Although Haley didn't have a sack in the 92 title game his impact was felt. He did have one sack vs SF in the 93 title game. He created so much havoc it freed up other players to the QB.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

The Bills have Levy, Kelly, Thomas, Reed and Lofton.
The Cowboys have Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, Allen and Deion.

Am I missing someone from the Bills?

Bruce Smith.... and also... lofton is as much a packer as he is a bill... lifetime achievement.
not to mention.... Ralph Wilson (yeh, kinda don't count.)

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Deion is not a cowboy

Deon was/is a cowboy... he's moved around... but his most successful and recognizable point is with the boys.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

I believe the Cows would've won with or without Haley.

That Haley missing piece talk is media regergitation. Like McGwire and Sosa "saved" baseball. Neither are true. Baseball would have survived and the Cowboys would've won sb!

nah... Haley was the missing piece, he gave the D an identity and a fierceness that no one else had...
they game planned for him first... everything flowed from there.... It;s not media created... I watched enough football those years to see the difference, as I'm sure many board members did...