SI.com Truth & Rumor: Dallas shipping off J. Jones

[Spectre]

honestly i want a different rb but there won't be anybody to fill the void if we get rid of the piledriver

The "piledriver"?

?????

please.



Trade him and position for A. Peterson.

 

[D-BOI99]

I would agree that a majority of the posters here would take the position that the cost to move up and get Peterson would be too great for what you get in return. The same could be said for the Herschell Walker trade, but it did happen. Many though that we overpaid for Dorsett, but that worked out well for us.

Many are saying it CAN'T HAPPEN. That is false. It CAN happen. The more relevant question is WILL IT. I think it is more likely to happen than many might realize for several reasons, which are, in no particular order:

1. A really bad team is not going to "get well" on a single pick in most cases. They "want" to trade down, to some degree, because they need numbers of players to be competitive. We have been doing that the past several years, and it has worked for us.

2. Peterson might slide a little bit farther than most expected. He could fall out of the top three. It is looking like C.J., Quinn and Russell might be the top three picks, in no particular order. For every spot Peterson slides down, the cost of moving up drops significantly.

3. The Cowboys roster is stacked enough that a low first round pick, in a weak draft is not likely to improve the team as dramatically as a stud player would. I know C.J. might be the best player in this draft on some boards, but how much of an improvement would he be over T.O. and Glenn? No QB in this draft would probably start over Romo. On the other hand, at this point in time, RUNNING BACK IS THE WEAKEST SKILL POSITION OFFENSIVELY for the Cowboys. Peterson should make us a much better team than it currently is.

4. Great running backs usually make an IMMEDIATE impact, in fact maybe more so than at any other position.

5. Due to Peterson's injury concerns, a marginal team is not likely to take him and wonder if he can hold up while the rest of the team's talent level rises.

6. Coach Phillips has seen first hand what having a stud running back can do for you as a coach for the Chargers. He would probably prefer a guy who can break the game open.

7. Jerry Jones has been living in Danny Boy's shadow (press wise) for free agent acquisitions and draft day trades. I think this is the year he steps back out of that shadow and shakes things up. Trading down is often the smart thing to do, but trading UP is where the publicity is. Keep in mind he is going to want to fill that new stadium, and Julius Jones types are not going to fill a stadium like a big name can.

You hit it right on the nose.

 

[Verdict]

I doubt Dallas will attempt to get Peterson but I will say you make some very good points and I fully agree about the impact that is made by top RB. On offense other than the QB the RB handles the ball more than any other position on the team and there is no denying the affect of what top backs bring to a team. You take LT out of SD and they are back the bottom of the division

I appreciate you understanding the point I was trying to make. I realize it is a bit of a longshot to actually happen, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes. Here are a couple of more reasons that I think make a compelling case for making the move:

1. Our offensive line should be a force to be reckoned with in the running game. Adams, Gurode, and Davis are true maulers and should really bolster our running game. We need a stud back who can take advantage of that asset.

2. Romo is an emerging quarterback. I think that he needs an above average running game to assist him in his development as this teams QB.

3. I mentioned that the price of moving up to get Peterson is dropping dramatically with each draft slot that he drops. I don't know if everyone understands how much. For example, if Peterson falls from just the #3 spot to the #4 spot the differerence is 400 points on the draft chart, or the equivalent of the 18th overall pick in the second round (50th overall).

Here is what it would take to move up to the 4th overall pick:

1800 points for #4 overall

<less>

780 points (this year's first)
590 points (next year's first -assume it is the last pick in round #1)
--------------------------------------------------------------
The difference is 430 points or the equivalent of a mid second round pick.

If we traded away Jones to either the team we traded with at #4, or another team, it wouldn't cost that much additionally to move up. Plus this year we have picks available to make the move. The trade would also make Jones expendable.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

If this were to happen I would hope Dallas would hold out for a 2nd rd pick at the least. I know Jones has down played these rumors but then again no one is going to show their cards until they have to.

If we traded Jones I'd love a 2nd rounder, but you probably wuoldnt get more than maybe a 4th. The Colts tried to ship Edgerrin James for a 2nd rounder and couldn't find a taker.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

1. A really bad team is not going to "get well" on a single pick in most cases. They "want" to trade down, to some degree, because they need numbers of players to be competitive. We have been doing that the past several years, and it has worked for us.

But if you look at the teams that are good in this era of football, they also are in the business of aquiring more picks. There is simply too much roster turn over (though that could change a bit with the new cap, though I doubt it because of how much salaries are jumping up) for teams to mortaage their future on one player. The Walker and Dorsett deals happened pre salary cap, when it was alot easier to hold onto all of your players.

Look at the Pats and Eagles ability to stay real good for the past 5 or 6 years. They always have loads of picks. Then look at a team like NO who gave up quite a bit to move and get Williams. That set them back for years. Draft picks are the most important aspect of building a team in today's game, and we are finally seeing it ourselves. Finally we have a plethora of homegrown players who make up the core of our roster (for the most part), and it's no coincidence that we will probably be competitive for a while.

2. Peterson might slide a little bit farther than most expected. He could fall out of the top three. It is looking like C.J., Quinn and Russell might be the top three picks, in no particular order. For every spot Peterson slides down, the cost of moving up drops significantly.

AP is a great talent. But his injury woes do not put me at ease. Also, RB is one of the easier positions to fill on a roster.

If you look at the top 10 rusher from last year, you see that most of those guys are picked all over the place. Though you could argue that AP might be as special as LT, which is hard to put a price on. But remember about LT, he was got in the deal which also netted SD Drew Brees.

3. The Cowboys roster is stacked enough that a low first round pick, in a weak draft is not likely to improve the team as dramatically as a stud player would. I know C.J. might be the best player in this draft on some boards, but how much of an improvement would he be over T.O. and Glenn? No QB in this draft would probably start over Romo. On the other hand, at this point in time, RUNNING BACK IS THE WEAKEST SKILL POSITION OFFENSIVELY for the Cowboys. Peterson should make us a much better team than it currently is

But in order to get this stud player you would have to potentially sacrifice this and or future drafts for ONE player. This style of drafting does not work in today's NFL.

And CJ would be HUGE for this team. Glenn and Owens arent getting any younger.

4. Great running backs usually make an IMMEDIATE impact, in fact maybe more so than at any other position.

This is valid. But is it worth the future of the franchise?

5. Due to Peterson's injury concerns, a marginal team is not likely to take him and wonder if he can hold up while the rest of the team's talent level rises.

One reason he may slide, but not out of the top 10.

6. Coach Phillips has seen first hand what having a stud running back can do for you as a coach for the Chargers. He would probably prefer a guy who can break the game open.

There's ONE Ladanian Tomlinsno in the NFL. Probably hasn't been as dominant a back since Marshal Faulk (LT is better). Still not wise to mortgage your future for one guy, especially with injury concerns.

7. Jerry Jones has been living in Danny Boy's shadow (press wise) for free agent acquisitions and draft day trades. I think this is the year he steps back out of that shadow and shakes things up. Trading down is often the smart thing to do, but trading UP is where the publicity is. Keep in mind he is going to want to fill that new stadium, and Julius Jones types are not going to fill a stadium like a big name can.

I wouldn't put it past Jerry to do it. But I think he may have learned a thing or two from Parcells, and the other succesful teams around him in the league (most of the league seems to have learned). He brought in TO, he's got Romo now. I doubt Jerry is that worried about filling the seats. This is a team that is expecting a Super Bowl run this year. Look at all the national TV games they have. This team is back in the spotlight.

 

[skinsscalper]

Jones is not worth a #1. At most he'd probably go for a 3rd.

And if they trade Julius, then they'll prolly draft another one. Can't say very many of the RBs in the draft this year excite me. I'd rather go with Julius for one more year and then see who's in the draft next year if they decide to let him walk.

Most logical point in the whole thread.

exactly, im not a big fan of jones, but he is going to be better this year than a rookie drafted in 3rd round would be for this year.

There is NOT a back in this draft that is going to equal Jones. Period. We aren't trading up for Peterson OR Lynch and it leaves us HAVING to find out if Barber can carry the load (a fact that many people fail to acknowledge that he's NEVER done. Hmmm I wonder why?)

It might be interesting to grab Michael Bush on Day 2 and sit him for the entire year next year to let him heal up... then let JJ play out his last year, and if he doesn't show something, let him walk. If JJ does look good, then you've got a "good problem" with an abundance of backs.

I love this idea the most. I think Bush can be had with a 4th. The investment isn't large and anyone who's seen this kid play in college (pre-injury) knows he's an absolute beast.

i firmly believe if julius is traded it will be on draft day and only to move up in the first round to get lynch, other wise you would be trading a known quantity for an unknown quantity w/o any more upside to make it worth the risk...........

Lynch isn't worth trading up for and there's no guarantee he'll be better than Julius.

I agree, he is not close to being worth a second rounder and I definitely would not give him up for 1. You don't know what you are going to get with your second round pick. It certainly could be worse than Jones.

And by the way TJ Duckett was not anywhere near as close to being worth what the Skins gave up for him, but they did it. But again, that was the Skins so that does not tell you much.

Jones is not Emmitt or Tony but you guys who want to ship him off for a pick need to realize you could end up with worse!!

I'm glad that you brought up Tony Dorsett. The guy is a Hall of Fame running back and knows a bit about the game. It was posted a few weeks ago in an interview that Dorsett ALSO believed that Parcells coached some of the instinct out of Jones and made him less effective at the LOS by taking away his fluidity by becoming overly concernied with ball protection. There's a lot of "experts" in the crowd today, but I'm willing to guess that Tony Dorsett's football knowledge dwarfs that of even the biggest know it all football geek this board could possibly muster up. There's merit to the arguement. Jones was a MUCH more explosive back in year one than he was the past two years. I don't need a college scouting report to tell me that. It's on film. When you consider the rich tradition that Dallas has at the RB position and the heroic and record breaking performances put on by guys like Emmitt and Dorsett, then you open up the team record books and see that Julius Jones has atleast two (maybe three) of the top 5 ALL-TIME rushing perfomances in the team's history, you have to ask yourself how did a record setting RB become so pedestrian the following two years? Was it Parcells? Was it a drop off in O-line play? Did Julius just lose it? Anyone here who claims to have the answer is full of ****. One thing is certain, there's not a SINGLE RB in this draft (sans Peterson) who is a guaranteed upgrade over Jones. The system we had last year worked. To toy with it for the sake of toying with it is beyond stupid.

Next year will be a different story. Jones contract will be up and a decision will HAVE to be made. Until then there's no need to fix something that isn't broken.

SS

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Wow another 10 page thread about Julius Jones...

 

[Verdict]

But if you look at the teams that are good in this era of football, they also are in the business of aquiring more picks. There is simply too much roster turn over (though that could change a bit with the new cap, though I doubt it because of how much salaries are jumping up) for teams to mortaage their future on one player. The Walker and Dorsett deals happened pre salary cap, when it was alot easier to hold onto all of your players.

Look at the Pats and Eagles ability to stay real good for the past 5 or 6 years. They always have loads of picks. Then look at a team like NO who gave up quite a bit to move and get Williams. That set them back for years. Draft picks are the most important aspect of building a team in today's game, and we are finally seeing it ourselves. Finally we have a plethora of homegrown players who make up the core of our roster (for the most part), and it's no coincidence that we will probably be competitive for a while.




AP is a great talent. But his injury woes do not put me at ease. Also, RB is one of the easier positions to fill on a roster.

If you look at the top 10 rusher from last year, you see that most of those guys are picked all over the place. Though you could argue that AP might be as special as LT, which is hard to put a price on. But remember about LT, he was got in the deal which also netted SD Drew Brees.



But in order to get this stud player you would have to potentially sacrifice this and or future drafts for ONE player. This style of drafting does not work in today's NFL.

And CJ would be HUGE for this team. Glenn and Owens arent getting any younger.


This is valid. But is it worth the future of the franchise?

One reason he may slide, but not out of the top 10.

There's ONE Ladanian Tomlinsno in the NFL. Probably hasn't been as dominant a back since Marshal Faulk (LT is better). Still not wise to mortgage your future for one guy, especially with injury concerns.



I wouldn't put it past Jerry to do it. But I think he may have learned a thing or two from Parcells, and the other succesful teams around him in the league (most of the league seems to have learned). He brought in TO, he's got Romo now. I doubt Jerry is that worried about filling the seats. This is a team that is expecting a Super Bowl run this year. Look at all the national TV games they have. This team is back in the spotlight.

The "talking heads" (commentators) are saying that there is a huge dropoff in talent after about 15 players, meaning that there are only about 15 players who are projected to have a first round grade. If that premise is accurate, giving up this year's first round pick is the equivalent of giving up a second round pick, unless one of the top 15 players falls to us at 22. Jones is likely gone after this year, with no compensation (not considering compensatory pick implications). That seems pretty cheap to me.

Would you trade Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter and Julius Jones for Ladainian Tomlinson? I would. Think about this. Spears was selected at #20 in 2005. Carpenter was selected at #18 in 2006. Neither are difference makers at this point. Both were selected earlier in the round than our pick this year at #22. Peterson is arguably not only the best back in this draft, he is arguably the best running back to come out since Tomlinson, and he is faster than Tomlinson.

 

[Seven]

Poor Julius. Just like Parcells ruined Curtis Martin, Joe Morris and O.J. Anderson.

I agree Parcells stressed the negatives a little too much, but if a guy is a great runner that stuff won't bother him. Julius has to take responsibility for his poor performances. Last year, he was for the most part a "pile-seeking RB".

I would love to trade Julius on draft day. I wish we would have done it last year, as rumored, and took Maroney with the 20th pick.

Ok... now I am mad.
Maroney is an exciting/productive player. Runs like the Dickens...

We have Maroney. MB and him are almost identical runners, IMO. As for Julius. I had some high hopes for this kid and I'm still waiting, like everybody one else. I can hope this year he'll do.........something.

 

[Chuck 54]

I like JJ, but if we swapped him for a pick that was used to help the power running game with someone in the draft like Bush or even Chris Henry, I could live with it.

 

[bbgun]

Part of me hopes it happens just so we can stop speculating about it.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Part of me hopes it happens just so we can stop speculating about it.

History does repeat itself........Dextor Coakley.

 

[BouncingCheese]

We have Maroney. MB and him are almost identical runners, IMO. As for Julius. I had some high hopes for this kid and I'm still waiting, like everybody one else. I can hope this year he'll do.........something.

NO WAY are Maroney and Marion Barber in the same talent level as each other. I don't even need to discuss thier prospect profiles, you will see who is more talented http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/barber_marion
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/maroney_laurence

Maroney is more explosive, can take the ball to the outside as well as inside, is a decent if not semi-polished reciever, and overall a better athlete. Maroney was also able to hold down the starting role of setback in Minn(showing his durability, something the coaching staff in Dallas will be questioning this year still in regards to MBIII), something MBIII was never able to do during his tenure. Barber is talented, but he plays like mauler, even though he obviously has the physique better suited as a cutback dude. Finally, if they were even identical, they would have gone during similar picks, not Maroney in the 1st round, and MBIII in the fourth.

Barber cannot take it to the house like JJ, which is the only reason why we even put JJ back there. I think we will not move JJ, which is wise, considering I think Jerrah knows the window to do damage in the playoffs is now, not in a few years when we draft and groom a setback for the future.

We are stuck with Julius. Marion Barber is what he is, a grinder who can't move laterally. get over it

 

[MossBurner]

I agree, he is not close to being worth a second rounder and I definitely would not give him up for 1. You don't know what you are going to get with your second round pick. It certainly could be worse than Jones.

And by the way TJ Duckett was not anywhere near as close to being worth what the Skins gave up for him, but they did it. But again, that was the Skins so that does not tell you much.

Jones is not Emmitt or Tony but you guys who want to ship him off for a pick need to realize you could end up with worse!!

The Skins gave a 3rd for Duckett when they were facing a potentially season-ending injury to CP. At that time, an unproven Betts was their starter heading into a season that looked playoff-bound.

 

[Hostile]

The Skins gave a 3rd for Duckett when they were facing a potentially season-ending injury to CP. At that time, an unproven Betts was their starter heading into a season that looked playoff-bound.

Uh, you gave up more than a 3rd round pick for him. You also gave up a 4th round pick in 2008.

 

[Bizwah]

Nah, keep Jones. He and Barber are a really good one-two.

I like Thompson too.

I would look to add a guy or two though. I like the idea of Bush on the second day. Word has it that he is going to be ok. I think Atlanta will take him earlier than anyone else though.

I would also look at Coleman from Hampton.

 

[BlueStar22]

if we trade Julius, we'd damn sure better have another option other than MB3 and Tyson freaking Thompson.

 

[percyhoward]

Part of me hopes it happens just so we can stop speculating about it.

That's definitely become a part of why I hope it happens.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Even if the rookie RB drafted is just mediocre, we're still better off longterm with a ookie mediocre RB with 4 years of contract than a veteran mediocre RB with 1 year on his contract.

...but let me guess, Julius' is going to have his "breakout" season next year. Or the year after that. Do you remember that game three years ago? He was really great that game.

 

[GlitzCowboy]

Well, golly, if it's gonna hurt his feelings we should prolly keep him and let him play out his final year..

Or NOT!

3 strikes, he needs to be out. Jerry is freakin' stupid if he doesn't atleast try to upgrade the position. Hell, even if it's as dramatic a thing as just giving the job to Barber to see what he can do with it. We can't keep wasting time on individual players that don't produce the kind of production we need. It's as simple as that. Julius has had 3 opportunities and as far as I'm concerned that is highly enough.