Skins Fans Crying

iceberg

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5Stars said:
It doesn't have any relevance at all...


It's like saying New Orleans has not had a bad hurricane in the last 30 years...and then BOOM!

:star:

wow - blinders are in full force, i see.

show me where i said we *could* NOT win the superbowl.

never said it, so you can't but have fun looking if you wish.

what i did say is it's not realistic to think we can not only make the playoffs for the 3rd time in 10 years BUT win a game THEN win 2-3 games THEN win the superbowl ALL THIS YEAR. to use your own example, it's like every year predicting a "katrina" and it never happens for 29 years? does that mean in year 30 it won't happen? nope. it sure could. but that doesn't make the prediction *that year* and more valid than the 29 that wiffed.

could it happen? YES IT SURE AS HELL COULD!!!

is it likely, no.

have several pundants picked us to win it? i'm sure they have. i also notice those who pick us are either smart already or got it right THIS time yet those who don't are morons. parcells can be a pro coach and we shouldn't question his moves but a pro analyst who does NOT pick you doesn't all of a sudden have the same leeway, they're morons who "don't understand".

several more "pundants" have picked others to win.

again - possible? yes. likely, no.

now will i still go out and try to enjoy the sesaon and hope we are indeed making progress??? YES!!!!! but in the meantime i'm going to call it as i see it and see how it plays out, not sit here happy and "if all the breaks go out way we rule!!!!".

there are many fan types - i'm just one of 'em but we're all fans of the same team. not blowing "rah rah" smoke up my own arse doesn't mean i'm not a fan of this team.
 

iceberg

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burmafrd said:
I guess its just a little too obvious for some. In todays watered down NFL, when the cap and FA prevents any team from really becoming a monster, then it is a lot easier to go from nothing to winning it all. And not winning a playoff game in 10 years means exactly WHAT? We have not had a really good team in 10 years. OR maybe we had some bad luck, or played a bad game, etc. RECENT history shows that a quick turnaround to winning it all is just about common. 2-4 years is really all that matters in todays NFL. SO if you just go over say the last 5 years- look at the teams that have been in the SB or won it all- HOW many have been in the playoffs EVERY YEAR? OR have won a playoff game recently?

so - you can't tell me a team that's not won a playoff game in 10 year who did turn around and win the superbowl to end that drought.

all you had to say.
 

iceberg

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Alexander said:
Even when you prove his stance wrong, he will spin it another way.

You are wasting your time. That's what happens when you debate with someone whose mind is made up.

In the iceberg world, we didn't do what he wanted so no matter what we are doomed. We didn't draft or sign splashy OL. We still have Coach Parcells as our coach. We are doomed.

oh good lord dude - if we go into a point already disagreeing it's quite likely we'll come out disagreeing. NEITHER OF US is spinning a thing, just talking our views and trying to clarify what we say when misunderstood.

you call that clarification spinning, i call it talking to find the common ground.

whatever. but since you didnt' either understand or agree with my point to begin with you'd think further discussion would be just further discussion - NOT spinning.

you seem to want me to be exactly what you need me to be alexander and your mind is already made up about how i feel.

sound familiar?
 

TEK2000

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iceberg said:
how can i ask for results NOW when i'm NOT the one advocating we're gonna win the superbowl this year?????? the results i want is PROGRESS to make that a more realistic goal. i would say those harping we can and *will* win it this year want results NOW.

alexander, that statement kinda blows me away. all along on several forums i've HATED this "shotgun approach" we're on now that's designed to WIN NOW cause i want to build for LONG TERM - which IS NOT winning NOW, now is it?

How is this team not built for LONG TERM? We have older players at QB, WR, and a few older OLinemen. Every other position on our team is YOUNG! Our ENTIRE defense is young!

In the last 2 offseasons we've completely redesigned our defense as well as much of our offense.

The progress here is that EVERY TEAM in our division is likely in the hunt for a playoff spot... its not like we went out and played nothing but crappy teams last season and wound up barely making it to 9-7. We played good quality teams and were only blown out of 1 game.

You're talking like we haven't made ANY improvements in the last 10 years.
 

iceberg

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TEK2000 said:
How is this team not built for LONG TERM? We have older players at QB, WR, and a few older OLinemen. Every other position on our team is YOUNG! Our ENTIRE defense is young!

In the last 2 offseasons we've completely redesigned our defense as well as much of our offense.

The progress here is that EVERY TEAM in our division is likely in the hunt for a playoff spot... its not like we went out and played nothing but crappy teams last season and wound up barely making it to 9-7. We played good quality teams and were only blown out of 1 game.

You're talking like we haven't made ANY improvements in the last 10 years.

no, i'm talking about the areas we've still got to go to be a young LONG HAUL team.

what's my focus been? OL, QB and some TO hatred. is this not consistant? i think we overfocus on the defense and not enough on the offense. i think our defense IS a more solid unit - easily.

would it help if i had a mandatory 3 post per day RAH RAH OUR DEFENSE RULES post?
 

Alexander

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iceberg said:
no, i'm talking about the areas we've still got to go to be a young LONG HAUL team.

What does this mean?

And what NFL team fits that definition?

what's my focus been? OL, QB and some TO hatred. is this not consistant? i think we overfocus on the defense and not enough on the offense. i think our defense IS a more solid unit - easily.

You get points for consistency. But insane people are often quite consistent. They just expect different results. Not that I am implying you are insane, you know.
 

iceberg

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Alexander said:
What does this mean?

And what NFL team fits that definition?

You get points for consistency. But insane people are often quite consistent. They just expect different results. Not that I am implying you are insane, you know.

so now i'm insane, alexander? (not gonna buy the "but i'm not calling YOU insane reference right after you just heavily implied it) way to give alternative thinking some leeway. what's funny is YOU seem to feel if they don't do it my way i stomp my foot. yet, if i don't think YOUR way, i'm insane.

who's now less "forgiving" here???
 

peplaw06

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iceberg said:
so - you can't tell me a team that's not won a playoff game in 10 year who did turn around and win the superbowl to end that drought.

all you had to say.

The Seahawks hadn't won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. They didn't win the SB, but they were there...

Before the Pats went to the SB in 1996, their last playoff win was in 1985. Again they didn't win that SB, but if that's all your argument's hinging on, it's pretty weak.

Before the Bucs went on their SB run, they had won exactly 3 playoff games in their Franchise's history!

The Ravens won the SB in 2000 and the last playoff win they had was in 1994 in Cleveland.

Again if the Ten Year number is all your argument's hinging on, it's very weak. You have to take into account how long the age of parity has been around. It's only the last decade that has seen teams go from no where into the playoffs and sometimes the SB. So finding a team that has gone 10 years is impossible, because this is a recent trend. In today's NFL it can happen.
 

iceberg

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peplaw06 said:
The Seahawks hadn't won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. They didn't win the SB, but they were there...

Before the Pats went to the SB in 1996, their last playoff win was in 1985. Again they didn't win that SB, but if that's all your argument's hinging on, it's pretty weak.

Before the Bucs went on their SB run, they had won exactly 3 playoff games in their Franchise's history!

The Ravens won the SB in 2000 and the last playoff win they had was in 1994 in Cleveland.

Again if the Ten Year number is all your argument's hinging on, it's very weak. You have to take into account how long the age of parity has been around. It's only the last decade that has seen teams go from no where into the playoffs and sometimes the SB. So finding a team that has gone 10 years is impossible, because this is a recent trend. In today's NFL it can happen.

well in peoples usual effort to slap what you don't like 1st, understand later.

"can it happen" - FRIGGING YES.
"is it likely" - NO.

and great, i did figure there would be a few teams, i just didn't have time to go look. now, if i can name some that haven't done it in 10 years, and have an optomistic fan base about *this* year - most fans would think those fans crazy for thinking they could make it.

hell, the skins got close LAST YEAR and we're busy ripping them up for daring to think they got better while we pull rare examples out to illustrate the potential for success.

CAN IT HAPPEN? yes.
do i think it will? no.
COULD I BE WRONG? sure.
how do we find out? continue discussion later.

now i wish people who are arguing against my point would show me where i DID IN FACT SAY it can't happen before they'd go off and reply to my posts as if i did say that.
 

peplaw06

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iceberg said:
well in peoples usual effort to slap what you don't like 1st, understand later.

"can it happen" - FRIGGING YES.
"is it likely" - NO.

and great, i did figure there would be a few teams, i just didn't have time to go look. now, if i can name some that haven't done it in 10 years, and have an optomistic fan base about *this* year - most fans would think those fans crazy for thinking they could make it.

hell, the skins got close LAST YEAR and we're busy ripping them up for daring to think they got better while we pull rare examples out to illustrate the potential for success.

CAN IT HAPPEN? yes.
do i think it will? no.
COULD I BE WRONG? sure.
how do we find out? continue discussion later.

now i wish people who are arguing against my point would show me where i DID IN FACT SAY it can't happen before they'd go off and reply to my posts as if i did say that.
Well what team "IS LIKELY" to win the SB this year?? Every team has a better chance of NOT winning the SB than they do of winning the SB. :) I think the Boys are currently getting the best odds in Vegas right (??). I know that has to do with money actually placed, but oddsmakers have something to say about that.

We're not arguing that you said it's impossible for it to happen (no more than we're saying IT WILL happen), we're just trying to show you examples that support the fact that there can be optimism about this season. I guess that's the difference between us though. Some people just can't be optimistic.
 

burmafrd

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Well YOU were the one that kept HARPING on the 10 year thing.
Since you got owned on that- now you are changing your tune.
TYPICAL.
 

wesleyc288

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Hostile said:
Thank you. Since we're playing "do you understand" I'd like to throw some posers back at ya, if you don't mind.

Yes, I do understand the dynamics of how the Skins repeatedly can sign players to huge contracts and not get bit by it. It isn't impressive because it hasn't paid off. Do you undestand that?

The next question I have for you is, do you understand that you pay more than the monetary value of the contract? Let's take Mark Brunnell for instance. I wanted us to get Brunnell when Jacksonville released him. I make no bones about that. I would have been royally pissed if Dallas had signed him for the amount the Skins did, but even worse you gave up a 2nd round Draft pick to get him before he hit the FA market. In the meantime we got a QB of roughly the same caliber without the huge contract and without sacrifcing draft picks.

Why pay for a guy you can get for much cheaper? It doesn't make much sense.

Lest you think this is the Cowboys homer in me talking let me cite an example where we did similar. We traded Joey Galloway for Keyshawn Johnson whom we already knew was going to be released by Tampa Bay. I wasn't happy about that.

Does this knowledge sit well with you? If it does then I suggest you lack some grasp of the actual dynamics of the game. These players you're signing for large amounts of cash are usually players who get drafted. That's a much cheaper way to acquire talent that can help your team long term. Your team throws away draft picks like they have no value other than as a bargaining chip.

If you were doing this for guys who were NFL All Pros, I could understand it. I could even applaud it. That isn't what you're doing though is it? You mentioned the prime of their playing careers. If their "prime" is only marginal where is the bargain? Do you understand that while Lloyd, Randle El, and Archuleta are more established than rookies would be that their "prime" level of play has never been that much above what a rookie can give you?

My gosh man, you've got Sean Taylor on your football team. You saw what he did as a rookie. Has Archuleta ever come close to that? But you'd rather pay Adam millions than roll the dice in the draft for someone who could probably give you the same results?

Is this sinking in? Hey, applaud the move, at least you get to look at his wife in the stands. We had a guy with a hot wife last year too, Billy Cundiff. Thank heavens he's gone.

The bottom line is, Dan Snyder makes these bold moves every year and they simply don't work out. Who pays for his mistakes? You and your fellow fans do. How? By not having a nucleus of young players you can identify with for a long period of time. All you have is the colors man. That's your team identity. Is it enough? If so then you have lower standards than I do.

Hey, that's not a dig. Maybe mine are too high. I certainly am more frustrated about my team than you seem to be about yours. I'm not into howling at the moon over Free Agents. Don't believe me? Find me a post where I whoop and holler over any over our acquistions in Free Agency. Not even the big ones, TO and Vanderjagt. Our Draft on the other hand, there's where you'll find me excited.

Why? Because I understand that in a parity driven league the only way to be truly happy with your team is to identify with it. I don't identify with retreads for the most part. I appreciate their contributions and I root for them. My team is the guys who are original Cowboys. They're family. The rest are hired hands. Some are better hands and assets than others. They're still just hired hands.

I've got nothing against you at all if the big splashes make you horny. More power to you. Until those big splashes do anything other than stir up the water in your pool, you're still just suffering blue balls with the rest of the unlucky. Meanwhile the rest of the unlucky are building for the long term and having virtually the same success that your team is with all the big splashes.

Seriously, you're good with that? For heaven's sake why?



Post of the year!!!!!!
 

iceberg

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burmafrd said:
Well YOU were the one that kept HARPING on the 10 year thing.
Since you got owned on that- now you are changing your tune.
TYPICAL.

"got owned" - what are you - 12?

and if you're not smart enough to understand what i was saying ABOUT that 10 year thing, ain't my fault. i'm not changing my tune at all, i just need to really dumb it down for you dude.

now can we quit being 12?
 

iceberg

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peplaw06 said:
Well what team "IS LIKELY" to win the SB this year?? Every team has a better chance of NOT winning the SB than they do of winning the SB. :) I think the Boys are currently getting the best odds in Vegas right (??). I know that has to do with money actually placed, but oddsmakers have something to say about that.

We're not arguing that you said it's impossible for it to happen (no more than we're saying IT WILL happen), we're just trying to show you examples that support the fact that there can be optimism about this season. I guess that's the difference between us though. Some people just can't be optimistic.

and that's fair enough. as i said, it *can* happen. sounds like you agree with me on "odds" and all so now it's more or less down to overall posting history and who's happy and who's bitter. : )

as for the 10 year thing - just to toss out a question... has any team gone 10+ years w/o a playoff win to at least being in the superbowl? i'll agree it may not mean much either way but now i'm curious.
 

BigDFan5

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iceberg said:
if you go deep into the playoffs, it's NOT unrealistic to think moves made can help push you further. further for them *is* getting to the superbowl

further for *us* is hitting the playoffs.

then winning one.

then building up more as you go.

to think we can go from missing the playoffs 2 straight years to the superbowl and that 1/2 of our fans in here believe that *is* a tad unrealistic.

you sound like you were in that 50% who thinks we can. : )

i agree each year is independant, however, it's still a part of a growth pattern unless you shell the team and start over. seeing as how we've not done that, we're still growing and to simply bypass not winning a playoff game in 10 years to 50% of our fans thinking we'll win it - homers.

not a bad thing at all and not insulting at all - again, it's what most fans do. it's just funny to see them then turn around and point out the same behavior of another team THEN try to justify theirs while in the same breath ripping hte other fans for the very same thing.

homer-crites vs. hypocrites??? >g<

Again you are using past seasons to try and justify THIS season. The Panthers were 1-15 in 2001, 7-9 in 2002 and then they were in the superbowl in 2003, then they went 7-9 again and back to the NFC championship.

Previous seasons and where a team finished has no affect on the current season. Past history shows us this. Jacksonville was 4-12 and went to AFC championship the following year, Tampa from 9-7 to Superbowl, Baltimore from 8-8 to superbowl, New York Giants from 7-9 to the superbowl, Titans from 8-8 to Superbowl, Rams 4-12 to NFC Championship, Falcons 5-11 to the NFC Championship, Seattle from 9-7 to superbowl, Pitt from 6-10 to AFC championship.

See I would agree it was unrealistic if it was not a normal occurence, but it happens almost every year. Will we win the Superbowl, probably not, but it is possible and not unrealistic considering the improvements we have made and the fact that team improve dramatically every year.
 

iceberg

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BigDFan5 said:
Again you are using past seasons to try and justify THIS season. The Panthers were 1-15 in 2001, 7-9 in 2002 and then they were in the superbowl in 2003, then they went 7-9 again and back to the NFC championship.

Previous seasons and where a team finished has no affect on the current season. Past history shows us this. Jacksonville was 4-12 and went to AFC championship the following year, Tampa from 9-7 to Superbowl, Baltimore from 8-8 to superbowl, New York Giants from 7-9 to the superbowl, Titans from 8-8 to Superbowl, Rams 4-12 to NFC Championship, Falcons 5-11 to the NFC Championship, Seattle from 9-7 to superbowl, Pitt from 6-10 to AFC championship.

See I would agree it was unrealistic if it was not a normal occurence, but it happens almost every year. Will we win the Superbowl, probably not, but it is possible and not unrealistic considering the improvements we have made and the fact that team improve dramatically every year.

so then we agree. what i'm ont gonna do is haggle over the ultimate defination of "unrealistic" cause overall i think we agree on that it could happen, not a HUGE chance of it happening, so the rest are the shades of gray where in the end we agree anywy.
 

burmafrd

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Ice- I guessed you missed peps post that mentioned that Seattle had not won a playoff game since 1984 before this year. The Pats when they went tothe SB in 1996 had not won a playoff game since 1985. So there are TWO EXAMPLES for you. NOT that it mattered. If you cannot see that many teams have gone from not making the playoffs (like us) to winning it all or making it to the SB, thats your problem. It has happened almost EVERY YEAR for the last 8 or so years.
 

BigDFan5

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iceberg said:
as for the 10 year thing - just to toss out a question... has any team gone 10+ years w/o a playoff win to at least being in the superbowl? i'll agree it may not mean much either way but now i'm curious.

Bengals had never won a playoff game when they made the Bowl in 1981 they never won a playoffgame after that agin until returning to the Superbowl in 1988

The bears had won 1 playoff game in over 20 years before winning the superbowl

Broncos went 9 years without a playoff win before making superbowl

Dallas won 1 playoff game in 10 years before making the superbowl, Alternately the Cowboys had 7 straight winning seasons where they didnt sniff a superbowl

Colts went 9 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl

Carolina had won 1 playoff game in their history before making a superbowl

Miami 10 years without a playoff win to a SuperBowl

Patriots 9 years without a playoff win to superbowl, they also had another run of 22 years with no playoff wins to a superbowl

San Fran went 10 years without a playoff win before winning a superbowl

Seattle went 21 years without a playoff win before making the superbowl

San Diego 1 playoff win in 12 years before making a superbowl

Tennesee 1 playoff win in 10 years before making a superbowl

Washington 29 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl, Then another 10 years with no playoff wins before winning a superbowl
 

iceberg

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BigDFan5 said:
Bengals had never won a playoff game when they made the Bowl in 1981 they never won a playoffgame after that agin until returning to the Superbowl in 1988

The bears had won 1 playoff game in over 20 years before winning the superbowl

Broncos went 9 years without a playoff win before making superbowl

Dallas won 1 playoff game in 10 years before winning the superbowl, Alternately the Cowboys had 7 straight winning seasons where they didnt sniff a superbowl

Colts went 9 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl

Carolina had won 1 playoff game in their history before making a superbowl

Miami 10 years without a playoff win to a SuperBowl

Patriots 9 years without a playoff win to superbowl, they also had another run of 22 years with no playoff wins to a superbowl

San Fran went 10 years without a playoff win before winning a superbowl

Seattle went 21 years without a playoff win before making the superbowl

San Diego 1 playoff win in 12 years before making a superbowl

Tennesee 1 playoff win in 10 years before making a superbowl

Washington 29 years with no playoff wins before making a superbowl, Then another 10 years with no playoff wins before winning a superbowl

props for digging all that up - a lot of work and i *do* appreciate it.

and burm - i saw it and i replied to another saying HE (and bidgfan5) were making good points to my questions/concerns, not just saying i'm insane.

or implying it with that built in back door again. : )

thanks big - i'll give it some thought before pushing on.
 
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