Some Things Just Don't Register With Me. This is one of them

[ABQCOWBOY]

But thats the ultimate goal right? To treat all men and women as family. Most people arent to that point yet. But some are. My goal is to just get close in this life.

Why is this the ultimate goal? I mean, I understand what you are trying to say but I'm not sure why you believe this to be the ultimate goal everybody should aspire to?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are hoping for a fantasy. I don't know your age, but the longer you live, the more you will see that the world will never come to the paradise you are wanting. Myself, I don't care what the scum gets in the next life. I have no control over that. He needs to suffer in this life just like his victims. Some people are not broken. They are pure evil and should be treated as such.

Nope, I'm all for helping this fella on his way to finding out what he gets in that next life everybody is talking about. Whatever I can do to lend a hand in this process, just let me know and thank you much!

 

[WV Cowboy]

I'm fine with whatever it takes to stop the pedophile from repeat offending.

But we also have to try to educate our younger boys/men that this type of behavior is unacceptable, and that you will be treated very harshly if you molest any child.

So we need to educate all young boys from 15-18 that this harsh treatment is what you can expect if you molest a child.

It won't stop this from happening, because we will always have creeps, .. but maybe it will curtail some from entertaining the thought. And if that saves one child from going through this horror, .. we did good.

 

[BlindFaith]

Why is this the ultimate goal? I mean, I understand what you are trying to say but I'm not sure why you believe this to be the ultimate goal everybody should aspire to?

Because what we are is not flesh and bones. We are spiritual beings with goals and purpose far more detailed than what this life is. This life is a blink in time.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because what we are is not flesh and bones. We are spiritual beings with goals and purpose far more detailed than what this life is. This life is a blink in time.

OK, so I'm still waiting for the answer to the original question. This is fine but I don't see how it means that everybody should share in what you see as your own personal beliefs. I see no correlation there.

 

[BlindFaith]

Nope, I'm all for helping this fella on his way to finding out what he gets in that next life everybody is talking about. Whatever I can do to lend a hand in this process, just let me know and thank you much!

I get the macho stuff. I really do. When I was younger I felt the same way. Eye for an eye kind of thing.

But when my daughter was born I realized what unconditional love was. And if unconditional love existed, then the entity that created it must be a million times more capable of showing it than me. And if I could love and support my daughter no matter what she did, then this entity can and does feel the same towards all of us no matter what we do. This entity wouldn't wish pain or suffering on us, but rather compassion and forgiveness. It would want to see us end up in the best possible place that we could.

For us to treat another one if it's creations with such little respect and disregard is something we need to mature through. And how can we be so quick to judge?

If a persons brain is damaged, either physically damaged or damaged by nature/nurture, then is that person really representative of what they are as a spiritual being? If I'm blind in this reality, am I also blind in another? If I am mentally disabled in this life, am I also disabled in another? Can I be held accountable for what I do if my equipment is broken?

Sure, there are people that choose to ignore what's right in the world. They choose negativity over love. They choose greed over charity. They choose power over humility. But if we are all truly connected and these other spiritual beings are our family I feel we should try to help them. I would spend all of eternity trying to help my daughter find her way if she stumbled. How do we know that the person you're hating isn't really your "daughter" in another reality?

 

[BlindFaith]

OK, so I'm still waiting for the answer to the original question. This is fine but I don't see how it means that everybody should share in what you see as your own personal beliefs. I see no correlation there.

I don't expect anyone to share in my beliefs, that's why they are mine. But if you are open and look for the truth, you may find beliefs that are very, very similar to mine.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I get the macho stuff. I really do. When I was younger I felt the same way. Eye for an eye kind of thing.

But when my daughter was born I realized what unconditional love was. And if unconditional love existed, then the entity that created it must be a million times more capable of showing it than me. And if I could love and support my daughter no matter what she did, then this entity can and does feel the same towards all of us no matter what we do. This entity wouldn't wish pain or suffering on us, but rather compassion and forgiveness. It would want to see us end up in the best possible place that we could.

For us to treat another one if it's creations with such little respect and disregard is something we need to mature through. And how can we be so quick to judge?

If a persons brain is damaged, either physically damaged or damaged by nature/nurture, then is that person really representative of what they are as a spiritual being? If I'm blind in this reality, am I also blind in another? If I am mentally disabled in this life, am I also disabled in another? Can I be held accountable for what I do if my equipment is broken?

Sure, there are people that choose to ignore what's right in the world. They choose negativity over love. They choose greed over charity. They choose power over humility. But if we are all truly connected and these other spiritual beings are our family I feel we should try to help them. I would spend all of eternity trying to help my daughter find her way if she stumbled. How do we know that the person you're hating isn't really your "daughter" in another reality?

No, I'm pretty sure you don't. If you did, you would certainly be able to identify the difference between Macho and a Personal Belief.

I'm happy for you and the fact that you seem to believe in something that works for you but you are sadly mistaken if you think that what you believe is the way for all. There are plenty of very justifiable reasons why those who thing this man should be dead or serving the rest of his life in a cell with other violent inmates is not entirely wrong.

If the question is, who are we to believe we have the right to make such decision, the answer is that we are Society and that is where you live. I don't agree with all things Society believes or even decides but I am not so foolish as to believe that my own personal opinions can change societies beliefs or even to decide that Societies beliefs are 100% wrong and mine or 100% right. You live within the confines and protection of Society. If you accept this, then you must accept that Society will also decide on certain aspects of your life. People who accept this are not wrong.

If you want to "fix" a person's Brain, that's fine. Show me how that's done in a reasonable way and I can support that. However, don't tell me that we need to "Fix" somebody who has a problem, such as this and then have no means by which to do so. That only puts more people at risk and while I understand that Death is not the accepted means by which solving this problem is currently handled, I also understand that this is not what a very large segment of our Society believe. I hear a lot of people saying it's not human but I don't see a lot of those same people providing any long term solutions on how to "fix" these people. One actually has to question if life long incarceration is more human then simply putting these folks to death. A very real question IMO.

Your idea of what is right is not a consensus. I ask you, how is it right, to force your opinion on every person or to consider others opinions and decide to live within the confines of what Society decides is moral? You must also consider that it may not be just your own Daughter who is being considered here. There are lots of parents out there with Daughter, and Sons for that matter, who must be considered. As for other corporeal planes of existence, be it 31 the Buddhists believe in or the 7 Michael teachings the New Age folks aspire to or anything in between, those are not what Society, as a whole. aspires to.

I am all for personal beliefs but I am not for assigning any one personal beliefs on all of Society. If I must be concerned with what my Daughter might be in another life, then I will deal with that reality when it actually exists. Who knows, if that actually comes to pass, the person who might be my Daughter now may not be my Daughter then. She may be somebody else's and I may be a rock, which in that case, will not be a concern to me.

In short, I don't agree.

 

[WV Cowboy]

.. then this entity can and does feel the same towards all of us no matter what we do. This entity wouldn't wish pain or suffering on us, but rather compassion and forgiveness. It would want to see us end up in the best possible place that we could.

For us to treat another one if it's creations with such little respect and disregard is something we need to mature through. And how can we be so quick to judge?

The entity that you speak of also expects us to protect the weak, the innocent, the helpless, .. widows, orphans, babies and children from the evils of the world.

It is our responsibility to prevent this from happening whenever and wherever we can.

Each of us has free will, .. but we also have to live with the conseqences of our decisions.

If someone molests a child, it is our obligation to make sure they never do again.

Statistics say that these type of people can not be fixed or changed.
Even if that were not true, .. how can we ever risk giving even one of them a second chance?
Because when we do, .. when we show the compassion that you are suggesting, .. if we are wrong, .. we have allowed it to happen to another precious child, .. or two, or three, .....

I could not live with that if it were my decision.

I can live with the pedophile remaining incarcerated, .. where he is living with the consequences of his decisions.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't expect anyone to share in my beliefs, that's why they are mine. But if you are open and look for the truth, you may find beliefs that are very, very similar to mine.

Open suggest a path that goes both ways. I don't see that in your beliefs, as you describe them. For all we know, yours may not be correct. That is why it is important for all to make their own choices in this regard. Let each deal with the choices they make. That, after all, is what is being discussed here. Let this man have to deal with the choices he has made, according to the Society he lives in.

 

[BlindFaith]

No, I'm pretty sure you don't. If you did, you would certainly be able to identify the difference between Macho and a Personal Belief.

I'm happy for you and the fact that you seem to believe in something that works for you but you are sadly mistaken if you think that what you believe is the way for all. There are plenty of very justifiable reasons why those who thing this man should be dead or serving the rest of his life in a cell with other violent inmates is not entirely wrong.

If the question is, who are we to believe we have the right to make such decision, the answer is that we are Society and that is where you live. I don't agree with all things Society believes or even decides but I am not so foolish as to believe that my own personal opinions can change societies beliefs or even to decide that Societies beliefs are 100% wrong and mine or 100% right. You live within the confines and protection of Society. If you accept this, then you must accept that Society will also decide on certain aspects of your life. People who accept this are not wrong.

If you want to "fix" a person's Brain, that's fine. Show me how that's done in a reasonable way and I can support that. However, don't tell me that we need to "Fix" somebody who has a problem, such as this and then have no means by which to do so. That only puts more people at risk and while I understand that Death is not the accepted means by which solving this problem is currently handled, I also understand that this is not what a very large segment of our Society believe. I hear a lot of people saying it's not human but I don't see a lot of those same people providing any long term solutions on how to "fix" these people. One actually has to question if life long incarceration is more human then simply putting these folks to death. A very real question IMO.

Your idea of what is right is not a consensus. I ask you, how is it right, to force your opinion on every person or to consider others opinions and decide to live within the confines of what Society decides is moral? You must also consider that it may not be just your own Daughter who is being considered here. There are lots of parents out there with Daughter, and Sons for that matter, who must be considered. As for other corporeal planes of existence, be it 31 the Buddhists believe in or the 7 Michael teachings the New Age folks aspire to or anything in between, those are not what Society, as a whole. aspires to.

I am all for personal beliefs but I am not for assigning any one personal beliefs on all of Society. If I must be concerned with what my Daughter might be in another life, then I will deal with that reality when it actually exists. Who knows, if that actually comes to pass, the person who might be my Daughter now may not be my Daughter then. She may be somebody else's and I may be a rock, which in that case, will not be a concern to me.

In short, I don't agree.

Macho is the ego. The ego is physical. It's what helps protect us, but also ties us to a physical way of thought. Ego is pride, self preservation, an acute obsession with "something". Ego is not all bad as we do need to survive while we are here. But it can be bad when ego is all that drives you.

Society has been very wrong in the past. It will be very wrong in the present and is sure to be very wrong in the future. You cant change society or how it's mass effect influences some people. But you can suggest alternate ways of thinking and potentially influence a few individuals along the way. But I don't answer to society, I answer, to what I believe, is the force behind the universe. My actions, both positive and negative, become who I am. Actions are energy, just as we are all energy. When we die, positive beings progress, negative beings must continue to grow. We grow by living a physical life.

Fixing comes from wanting to be fixed in some cases. In some cases it cant be fixed. I'm not advocating just letting people do whatever they want. There must be measures in place to make sure the good people of the world are allowed to freely live their life without fear, as much as we can. What we do to those that do wrong is a very complicated discussion. But treating them like animals is not the answer.

I don't force my opinion on anyone. I don't even know if it's right. But does anyone know what they believe is right? I just offer up another way to view things, as much as I can on a forum that frowns upon really talking about these things. And you'd be surprised what society aspires to. Spiritualism is not that uncommon of an idea anymore.

 

[BigStar]

Macho is the ego. The ego is physical. It's what helps protect us, but also ties us to a physical way of thought. Ego is pride, self preservation, an acute obsession with "something". Ego is not all bad as we do need to survive while we are here. But it can be bad when ego is all that drives you.

Society has been very wrong in the past. It will be very wrong in the present and is sure to be very wrong in the future. You cant change society or how it's mass effect influences some people. But you can suggest alternate ways of thinking and potentially influence a few individuals along the way. But I don't answer to society, I answer, to what I believe, is the force behind the universe. My actions, both positive and negative, become who I am. Actions are energy, just as we are all energy. When we die, positive beings progress, negative beings must continue to grow. We grow by living a physical life.

Fixing comes from wanting to be fixed in some cases. In some cases it cant be fixed. I'm not advocating just letting people do whatever they want. There must be measures in place to make sure the good people of the world are allowed to freely live their life without fear, as much as we can. What we do to those that do wrong is a very complicated discussion. But treating them like animals is not the answer.

I don't force my opinion on anyone. I don't even know if it's right. But does anyone know what they believe is right? I just offer up another way to view things, as much as I can on a forum that frowns upon really talking about these things. And you'd be surprised what society aspires to. Spiritualism is not that uncommon of an idea anymore.

You messed up trying to relate the way society treats perpetrators and victims to some spirtual contract that no one signed or gave you the authority to assume. That alone, is imposing your beliefs on others.

 

[BlindFaith]

You messed up trying to relate the way society treats perpetrators and victims to some spirtual contract that no one signed or gave you the authority to assume. That alone, is imposing your beliefs on others.

I never suggest what I think or believe is right or that anyone should believe the same. That's for each person to decide on their own. I do openly share what I believe to anyone wanting to listen. And if someone changes the way they look at life based on that, then great.

And what I believe goes much further than what can be discussed here, which makes things more challenging when I try to explain the entirety of my beliefs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Macho is the ego. The ego is physical. It's what helps protect us, but also ties us to a physical way of thought. Ego is pride, self preservation, an acute obsession with "something". Ego is not all bad as we do need to survive while we are here. But it can be bad when ego is all that drives you.

Society has been very wrong in the past. It will be very wrong in the present and is sure to be very wrong in the future. You cant change society or how it's mass effect influences some people. But you can suggest alternate ways of thinking and potentially influence a few individuals along the way. But I don't answer to society, I answer, to what I believe, is the force behind the universe. My actions, both positive and negative, become who I am. Actions are energy, just as we are all energy. When we die, positive beings progress, negative beings must continue to grow. We grow by living a physical life.

Fixing comes from wanting to be fixed in some cases. In some cases it cant be fixed. I'm not advocating just letting people do whatever they want. There must be measures in place to make sure the good people of the world are allowed to freely live their life without fear, as much as we can. What we do to those that do wrong is a very complicated discussion. But treating them like animals is not the answer.

I don't force my opinion on anyone. I don't even know if it's right. But does anyone know what they believe is right? I just offer up another way to view things, as much as I can on a forum that frowns upon really talking about these things. And you'd be surprised what society aspires to. Spiritualism is not that uncommon of an idea anymore.

And see, IMO, common sense is what protects most people. It has nothing at all to do with Ego or physical or Macho. It is a mistake for you to try and pigeon whole a person's beliefs into a "Macho" based response. Again, you are trying to decide for others and passing it off as an accepted response when in fact, it is only your opinion. People have the right to believe whatever they personally believe and if that belief does not coincide with what you personally believe, that does not make it a "Macho" based response. It makes it a personal decision that can be derived from multiple different points of view.

I agree that Society has been wrong in the past and I would even take that a step further in that Society has changed their opinions on what is right and what is wrong over time. However, Society has also provided the fabric from which you and I have the right to believe in whatever personal code we want. As I said previously, I don't always agree with Society but, I do believe that if you want to live within the sane confines of Society, which afford you the rights on display today, then you have to be willing to accept that. I can't say it any plainer then that.

Anybody who would commit the kinds of atrocities this man has committed on a child, or really any human being but especially a child, is an animal. Now, I recognize the fact that they may have some kind of mental deficiency but what of it? If a dog gets rabies, you have to put them down. That dog might have been a great dog prior to being infected but he is no longer that dog. You have to put them down in order to protect others. If you could save that dog, then you would but you can't so you act in a responsible way, so as to protect Society. The same goes for this man. Show me how he can be cured and we can discuss taking that approach. If you can't do that then you can't tell me that my opinion on this matter is wrong. You can only tell me that you don't believe in my opinion and I'm perfectly fine with that. As I said, all are entitled to their own personal beliefs.

I know you say that you don't force your opinions on people but it seems to me as if you offer little room for opinions that differ from your own. If I am mistaken, then you have my apologies. Only you know for sure if I am or not. People will accept your view points and adopt them or not. Either way, you have to be able to accept the fact that people may not and move on. Spiritualism may or may not be that uncommon of an idea anymore, I don't really know but I would offer up this. Pragmatic thought and behavior is certainly not going away anytime soon either. That's how I view my own personal view points on this matter.

 

[BlindFaith]

And see, IMO, common sense is what protects most people. It has nothing at all to do with Ego or physical or Macho. It is a mistake for you to try and pigeon whole a person's beliefs into a "Macho" based response. Again, you are trying to decide for others and passing it off as an accepted response when in fact, it is only your opinion. People have the right to believe whatever they personally believe and if that belief does not coincide with what you personally believe, that does not make it a "Macho" based response. It makes it a personal decision that can be derived from multiple different points of view.

I agree that Society has been wrong in the past and I would even take that a step further in that Society has changed their opinions on what is right and what is wrong over time. However, Society has also provided the fabric from which you and I have the right to believe in whatever personal code we want. As I said previously, I don't always agree with Society but, I do believe that if you want to live within the sane confines of Society, which afford you the rights on display today, then you have to be willing to accept that. I can't say it any plainer then that.

Anybody who would commit the kinds of atrocities this man has committed on a child, or really any human being but especially a child, is an animal. Now, I recognize the fact that they may have some kind of mental deficiency but what of it? If a dog gets rabies, you have to put them down. That dog might have been a great dog prior to being infected but he is no longer that dog. You have to put them down in order to protect others. If you could save that dog, then you would but you can't so you act in a responsible way, so as to protect Society. The same goes for this man. Show me how he can be cured and we can discuss taking that approach. If you can't do that then you can't tell me that my opinion on this matter is wrong. You can only tell me that you don't believe in my opinion and I'm perfectly fine with that. As I said, all are entitled to their own personal beliefs.

I know you say that you don't force your opinions on people but it seems to me as if you offer little room for opinions that differ from your own. If I am mistaken, then you have my apologies. Only you know for sure if I am or not. People will accept your view points and adopt them or not. Either way, you have to be able to accept the fact that people may not and move on. Spiritualism may or may not be that uncommon of an idea anymore, I don't really know but I would offer up this. Pragmatic thought and behavior is certainly not going away anytime soon either. That's how I view my own personal view points on this matter.

Sex offenders can be rehabilitated and are being rehabilitated through therapy. Some can not or choose not to.

I respect everyone's opinion and beliefs as long as they don't infringe on me or anyone else. Our prison system does not work, capital punishment does not work and treating people, no matter what the crime, like animals does not work.

If one out of 50 sex offenders can be helped, is it worth it? Or do we do as you suggest and treat them all like dogs with rabies?

 

[BigStar]

Sex offenders should be incarcertated for life in mental institutions or prisons for the criminally insane. It's a psychosexual disorder (pedophilia). Is this what you are getting at?

 

[WV Cowboy]

If one out of 50 sex offenders can be helped, is it worth it?

At what cost?

How do we know for sure if that person has been helped or cured, ... other than to let them go back out into society??

If we are wrong one time, .. is it worth it?

No second chance for child molesters is the only sane, logical conclusion.

We can not afford to be wrong, .. not once.

 

[burmafrd]

Sex offenders can be rehabilitated and are being rehabilitated through therapy. Some can not or choose not to.

I respect everyone's opinion and beliefs as long as they don't infringe on me or anyone else. Our prison system does not work, capital punishment does not work and treating people, no matter what the crime, like animals does not work.

If one out of 50 sex offenders can be helped, is it worth it? Or do we do as you suggest and treat them all like dogs with rabies?

so you could care less about all the children and women that would be victims in the future of those 49? Typical. Just like all your type victims are just not worth consideration; only the criminals.

 

[BigStar]

At what cost?

How do we know for sure if that person has been helped or cured, ... other than to let them go back out into society??

If we are wrong one time, .. is it worth it?

No second chance for child molesters is the only sane, logical conclusion.

We can not afford to be wrong, .. not once.

Agreed. A 2% success rate doesn't offer a great enough incentive to "reintroduce and hope for the best." Chemical castration has even proven unsuccesfull in recidivists.

 

[jnday]

I don't expect anyone to share in my beliefs, that's why they are mine. But if you are open and look for the truth, you may find beliefs that are very, very similar to mine.

Would you have the same feelings for a pervert that raped your daughter? I have the same feelings toward my children and grandchildren that you have, but I also want them protected from scum. I am not willing to risk it. The first time a child is molested, is one time too many. I respect your views, but I have seen the dark side of humans too many times to trust many of them.