Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[jterrell]

The loss of bowl money is peanuts compared to the added national exposure and guaranteed sellouts they will have from those 5 games per year.

The ACC made a wise move here, but they're foolish to think ND will ever join in football.

I agree it is a wise move in that it saved the conference. It locked in
Clemson and gave the networks (ESPN/FOX) access to a couple ND games yearly. So it was a much-needed move but it came with a blood price.

When that first team gets bumped down in the bowl system for ND there will be backlash and a very unhappy fan base.

The biggest problem however is this is a money issue. ND in the Big Eact made them no more money so they fell behind. Getting 5 games in the ACC makes "some" money but Swofford himself stated the move was "financially neutral". If that is the case that is a problem still. The league is well behind the other 4 conferences in total payouts. And the biggest avenue for a revenue increase is via BCS bowl/playoff games. Getting two teams in is a financial windfall... just ask the SEC. If you can get two in out of 10 like the Big 12 is targeting you'll be insanely rewarded. The ACC basically gives up that chance with the ND affiliation. IT also puts incredible pressure on the Chik-Fil-A and other bowls they have ties to that do make money. --I haven't fact-checked yet but assume 3 of their 7 bowl tie-ins make money. ND would likely steal one of the 3 at least 50% of the time.

If the ACC gets ND to 2 road games that helps 2 schools a season. That's it. So it helps each school financially once every 7 years on average.

Texas Tech just announced a third tier rights deal yesterday. They have a more profitable athletic program now than half the ACC. Think about that for a minute. Tech is using that money to hire research professors and make tier 1 status. Many ACC schools are there but are struggling financially to remain. FSU chief amongst them. Maryland cut like 7 or 8 sports programs out altogether.

 

[jterrell]

I'll say this though, what is nice about ten teams is you genuinely play the whole conference and the champion has played everyone, unlike in the 12 team format.

Even nicer... you play no one twice in football. I abhor rematches.

Between really good teams it is very rare to win twice.

If anything devalues the college football regular season it is rematches.

 

[DFWJC]

Even nicer... you play no one twice in football. I abhor rematches.

Between really good teams it is very rare to win twice.

If anything devalues the college football regular season it is rematches.

I hate them too.
But it's not just in college football-- a rematch can happen in the NFL or any other sport for that matter.

 

[jterrell]

I hate them too.
But it's not just in college football-- a rematch can happen in the NFL or any other sport for that matter.

i hear ya and in many sports they are unavoidable... but in the 120 team + NCAA football?

I think it is a total waste of games and creativity. You get 12 games per school on the high side. Let's see 12 different opponents.

I can see a playoff bringing about rematches but at least those teams will have had to face other top notch schools in the playoffs to earn those shots.

Last year's Bama/LSU rematch was just trash. LSU won a road game and should have face OSU not Bama for the title.

 

[MC KAos]

snicker

love the jealousy

ya, im sure me and all the texas fans are SUPER jealous of ND because they make more money than us...oh wait..

 

[jobberone]

ACC is looking to renegotiate better bowl games but not sure where they're going to get them or from whom. They have the Orange and Peach/ChickFilet and then junk.

And the ACC has sent better draw teams with worse records to bowls for some time now so the ND thing is no surprise really.

 

[Rogah]

i dont know about all that, this is 2012, not 1992, ND is barely relevant in football, i personally would much rather go see texas play a good team than ND. I truly wonder how many ND "fans" that arent students or alumni are under the age of 35, i bet most of their fans are getting up there in age, ND has been getting around on name for a while now.

Round these parts, sure. But round the rest of the country? Notre Dame is still a top draw with a nationwide following. This forum proves that.

No matter what ND does, even when they suck for years and years, they make national headlines. No other team in the nation can say that.

 

[Rogah]

When that first team gets bumped down in the bowl system for ND there will be backlash and a very unhappy fan base.

Why do you say that? Notre Dame already had a very similar deal in place with the Big East where, if they didn't qualify for a top bowl, they took a Big East bowl slot and everyone got bumped down. No one is going to care if NC State gets bumped from the Belk Bowl to the AdvoCare Bowl.

And the biggest avenue for a revenue increase is via BCS bowl/playoff games. Getting two teams in is a financial windfall... just ask the SEC. If you can get two in out of 10 like the Big 12 is targeting you'll be insanely rewarded. The ACC basically gives up that chance with the ND affiliation.

First of all, when as that ever even happened? Second of all, how is it something that is no longer possible?

If the ACC gets ND to 2 road games that helps 2 schools a season. That's it. So it helps each school financially once every 7 years on average.

Every ACC football program, with perhaps the exception of FSU, will benefit tremendously from day 1. You shouldn't be so shortsighted as to believe the only benefit comes with that once-per-decade visit.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why do you say that? Notre Dame already had a very similar deal in place with the Big East where, if they didn't qualify for a top bowl, they took a Big East bowl slot and everyone got bumped down. No one is going to care if NC State gets bumped from the Belk Bowl to the AdvoCare Bowl.

And Many Big East teams hated it. They got screwed out of a better bowl game because of Notre Dame. They hated the idea that Notre Dame would refuse to join the football conference but would take conference bowl games from them.

Every ACC football program, with perhaps the exception of FSU, will benefit tremendously from day 1. You shouldn't be so shortsighted as to believe the only benefit comes with that once-per-decade visit.

Nobody seems to learn from the Big East. A conference that put too emphasis on basketball and not enough on Football. A conference that let Notre Dame get what it wanted.

 

[jterrell]

ACC is looking to renegotiate better bowl games but not sure where they're going to get them or from whom. They have the Orange and Peach/ChickFilet and then junk.

And the ACC has sent better draw teams with worse records to bowls for some time now so the ND thing is no surprise really.

The ACC doesn't choose, the bowls do. That's the issue with the ND tie-in. ALL bowls will choose ND over EVERY ACC team with 1 more win.

A 10 win FSU team could get bumped from the Chik-Fil-A bowl over a 9 win ND team. If that happens and it costs FSU ~5mil expect more disharmony than ever before.

I know they needed to get ND in to add strength but giving up the bowl tie-ins was just nasty. All that said perhaps they can get better bowl tie-ins and thus re-coup at least 1 tier 1 bowl. BUT the real likelihood is they steal a bowl game tie-in from the Big East. You could see them jump into say the Pinstripe Bowl in NY. 1.8m payout which is a solid pay out. Versus the #7 Big 12 team. Maybe even the Compass Bowl for 1m. But any bigger bowls have affiliations already set with strong conferences.

And it really only maters if you can get into the BCS which is a 22m payout bowl game....

 

[jterrell]

Why do you say that? Notre Dame already had a very similar deal in place with the Big East where, if they didn't qualify for a top bowl, they took a Big East bowl slot and everyone got bumped down. No one is going to care if NC State gets bumped from the Belk Bowl to the AdvoCare Bowl.
First of all, when as that ever even happened? Second of all, how is it something that is no longer possible?
Every ACC football program, with perhaps the exception of FSU, will benefit tremendously from day 1. You shouldn't be so shortsighted as to believe the only benefit comes with that once-per-decade visit.

ROFL. Are you serious? NC State and their fan base will care VERY much. VERY much indeed. Being second class citizens to UNC is bad enough but getting bumped for a team they get to play every 4 years? They will be irate. And then the next year it is likely another team. The Belk Bowl actually makes money. That next bowl bump down is what the cost-laden Sun Bowl? Oh yea, bro, they will care.

People in the Big East HATED ND with a passion. They blame them for it's failure. ND clearly used the Big East and instead of upping its cred; it rode it into the ground.

ND's audience matters 5 weeks a year... except the ACC was playing them 4 times this year anyway without giving them any bowl tie-ins or a conference share. The non-football sports don't matter. Basketball in the ACC made tons of money anyway and will do so regardless of ND; the rest of the sports lineup will lose money no matter if ND is playing or not. The only program ND has right now that I'd pay to see is the women's basketball team.

The ACC has to carefully guard against ND using them and leaving. 50m does lock in FSU/Clemson but it is money ND giggles about. IF they want to leave they can cut a 50m check right now without sneezing.

The last 7 years ND has won 9, 10, 3, 7, 6, 8, 8, Using the new ACC math you give ND 1 extra win per season as you figure out Bowl games. Going back that means ND takes the TOP bowl spot 3 times!!! They take the 2nd bowl spot in 2 other seasons. So in 5 out of 7 years they would have cost the ACC money. Arguably 6 out of 7 seasons because the 6 win team would have likely taken a final money-making bowl from a 7-4 ACC team like Miami.

 

[DFWJC]

The Big East was always an odd league in the way they had basketball or football only members.

They were an awesome hoops league who kept losing thier top football programs (except WVU) to the ACC.

The ACC has always been a league that adds the teams it wants and never loses anyone.

There is a reason for that....and it goes WAY beyond football.

I know there's a lot of ACC bashing going on in this thread, but there is much more to all of this than football. It is huge b/c of the revenue potiential, but is not always thew central focus of an atheltic conference.

I will say this, as smart as the ACC is suppossed to be, you do wonder why they did not get a more robust TV deal.

Well, they are using Notre dame as a loophole to renegotioate the current deal. We'll see how that turns out. Becaue ND is now partially a part of the deal, the third tier right revisions to come into play.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3525497/acc-welcomes-the-fighting-irish.html

 

[jterrell]

The Big East was always an odd league in the way they had basketball or football only members.

They were an awesome hoops league who kept losing thier top football programs (except WVU) to the ACC.

The ACC has always been a league that adds the teams it wants and never loses anyone.

There is a reason for that....and it goes WAY beyond football.

I know there's a lot of ACC bashing going on in this thread, but there is much more to all of this than football. It is huge b/c of the revenue potiential, but is not always thew central focus of an atheltic conference.

I will say this, as smart as the ACC is suppossed to be, you do wonder why they did not get a more robust TV deal.

Well, they are using Notre dame as a loophole to renegotioate the current deal. We'll see how that turns out. Becaue ND is now partially a part of the deal, the third tier right revisions to come into play.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3525497/acc-welcomes-the-fighting-irish.html

ACC bashing is really based on 2 things. That terrible tv contract especially handing over 3rd tier rights for a back pat, and the state of football the last decade.

Athletic Conferences are ALL ABOUT FOOTBALL at this point. That's because money from football supports 5-10 other sports as well as pays professorial salaries. Colleges are businesses. They want to make money and football makes money.

The majority of the best academic institutions play sports as an afterthought if at all. Conferences being hyper concerned with academics are fighting a losing battle of dollars. The SEC has the loosest academics and morals of any major conference and conversely has the best football. As the Big 12 has reduced it's academic lien they advance in football.

If the ACC makes a better tv deal they'll cement themselves for the next decade. If they don't this is just a stopgap.

 

[burmafrd]

ya, im sure me and all the texas fans are SUPER jealous of ND because they make more money than us...oh wait..

Yep

Despite everything Texas still is less well known around the Country then NOTRE DAME.

snicker

 

[burmafrd]

ROFL. Are you serious? NC State and their fan base will care VERY much. VERY much indeed. Being second class citizens to UNC is bad enough but getting bumped for a team they get to play every 4 years? They will be irate. And then the next year it is likely another team. The Belk Bowl actually makes money. That next bowl bump down is what the cost-laden Sun Bowl? Oh yea, bro, they will care.

People in the Big East HATED ND with a passion. They blame them for it's failure. ND clearly used the Big East and instead of upping its cred; it rode it into the ground.

ND's audience matters 5 weeks a year... except the ACC was playing them 4 times this year anyway without giving them any bowl tie-ins or a conference share. The non-football sports don't matter. Basketball in the ACC made tons of money anyway and will do so regardless of ND; the rest of the sports lineup will lose money no matter if ND is playing or not. The only program ND has right now that I'd pay to see is the women's basketball team.

The ACC has to carefully guard against ND using them and leaving. 50m does lock in FSU/Clemson but it is money ND giggles about. IF they want to leave they can cut a 50m check right now without sneezing.

The last 7 years ND has won 9, 10, 3, 7, 6, 8, 8, Using the new ACC math you give ND 1 extra win per season as you figure out Bowl games. Going back that means ND takes the TOP bowl spot 3 times!!! They take the 2nd bowl spot in 2 other seasons. So in 5 out of 7 years they would have cost the ACC money. Arguably 6 out of 7 seasons because the 6 win team would have likely taken a final money-making bowl from a 7-4 ACC team like Miami.

this makes me smile

so many gomers like you keep claiming ND has no relevancy now
Your rant just proves otherwise

I love it

 

[jterrell]

this makes me smile

so many gomers like you keep claiming ND has no relevancy now
Your rant just proves otherwise

I love it

i try to put the really clueless people on ignore and alas occasionally click show post.... probably should have skipped that step here but alas.... i'll waste a little time....

i never said ND was irrelevant. apparently you have reading comprehension issues.

i wanted the big 12 to get notre dame and linked it as plausible a year ago or more.

ND was clearly the biggest re-alignment get out there. As BP noted however there was likely a caveat and that caveat was nasty indeed.
I am a Texas Tech fan and I'd have been supremely pissed if the Big 12 had given ND a free bowl tie-in for 5 games a season.

If the ACC can take this new ND get and turn it into tv money they win... if not they lose. It really is that simple. We saw with the Big East just having ND loosely attached isn't going to bring revenue.

As to the separate issue of ND football they just arent very good right now. In a real football conference they'd be a 2nd or 3rd tier team.

ND and UT are VERY similar. Both arrogant well beyond results on the field indicate they should be.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Enough with all of the numbers... doesn't work these days...

How about "Big Dogs"...

or Little SEC.

 

[MC KAos]

Yep

Despite everything Texas still is less well known around the Country then NOTRE DAME.

snicker

and neil degrasse tyson is less well known than kim kardashian, what does that matter? Texas makes more money and puts out a better product than ND on the field, sorry, but ND only matters to old geezers stuck in the olden days.

 

[trickblue]

or Little SEC.

Naahhh... these two conferences are WAY above the rest right now... you can certainly make a case for the Pac 12 at times... or the Big 10...

The Big East is falling as is the ACC...

I think eventually we have 4 Super Conferences... I don't like it, but the money is pushing us there...

 

[Rogah]

ROFL. Are you serious? NC State and their fan base will care VERY much. VERY much indeed. Being second class citizens to UNC is bad enough but getting bumped for a team they get to play every 4 years? They will be irate. And then the next year it is likely another team. The Belk Bowl actually makes money. That next bowl bump down is what the cost-laden Sun Bowl? Oh yea, bro, they will care.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I live in Durham, North Carolina, and I am currently a graduate student at North Carolina State University. No one around here would give the slightest darn about one minor bowl as opposed to another, period, end of discussion. Football is just something people do to pass time before basketball practices start. Plenty of great seats were available to last year's bowl game, which was actually a darn good one.

People on campus think it's pretty cool we'll be seeing Notre Dame every once in a while. There's no anger and no one's irate, except in your imagination.

The last 7 years ND has won 9, 10, 3, 7, 6, 8, 8, Using the new ACC math you give ND 1 extra win per season as you figure out Bowl games. Going back that means ND takes the TOP bowl spot 3 times!!!

Notre Dame went to the BCS in the first 2 of those years, so when they go to the BCS, the ACC doesn't lose anything.

They take the 2nd bowl spot in 2 other seasons. So in 5 out of 7 years they would have cost the ACC money. Arguably 6 out of 7 seasons because the 6 win team would have likely taken a final money-making bowl from a 7-4 ACC team like Miami.

I notice you didn't answer my question about when the ACC has had 2 BCS bowl teams. Why's that? Could it be because you're just making crap up to support your point and when you got called out on it, you decided to just ignore the question and hope no one noticed?

Notre Dame will not affect the ACC's ability to send the conference champion to the BCS (Orange Bowl). The rest is inconsequential.