Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[JohnnyHopkins]

The Clemson President kind of belittled the Big Twelve in his denial.

‏@Mizzou2SEC
Clemson Prez told a Carolina radio station today that if CU had any interest in leaving the ACC, it "certainly wouldn't be for the Big12."

https://twitter.com/#!/Mizzou2SEC/status/200069522294706177

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Clemson President kind of belittled the Big Twelve in his denial.

‏@Mizzou2SEC
Clemson Prez told a Carolina radio station today that if CU had any interest in leaving the ACC, it "certainly wouldn't be for the Big12."

https://twitter.com/#!/Mizzou2SEC/status/200069522294706177

That's kinda disappointing but that's fine too. I know that FSU is under heavey pressure to make a move by all sides. That doesn't mean that they will come to the Big 12 but what are their options? I don't know that the SEC has room and even if they did, would they have interest in that? Geographically it makes sense and the comp is certainly good but would the SEC vote in FSU?

FSU reported a $2.4 million shortfall on its 2012-2013 athletic budget. That's a lot of money to just write off when they can be making more money if they join a Football Conference. The only three Conferences that would make sense for FSU would be the Big 10, the SEC and the Big 12. Only these conferences can support Football and the financial requirements FSU would need to see IMO. In the case of the Big 10, I doubt they would take FSU because of academic standards. This is very important to the Big 10 because they make even more money off of Federally funded research grants (Based On Academics) then they do sports. The SEC is a possability but can they expand more then they already have? I know this, Florida, Georgia and SC will not vote from them to enter. Right now, they recruite well against FSU and they don't share revenue. It's a big thing to be able to say FSU plays in the ACC, not in the SEC when recruiting against them. The inclusion of FSU in that region would not sit well with any of those schools, particularly UF. Florida has been against FSU since it started.

FSU can't stay in the ACC because of how the Bowl Alignment is shaping up. Your are going to have 4 or however many teams make the playoff. What are the chances that those 4 teams will be from The Big 10, SEC, Big 12 and PAC 12 over the ACC? If FSU ends up with a 11-1 or 10-2 record, what are the chances that they beat out good teams from any of those power conferences? FSU has to move out of the ACC if they are to survive. I think that the same can be said for Clemson but their President said what he said. That's fine but realistically, they aren't going to get an offer from the Big 10 or SEC either so honestly, he will be lucky if the Big 12 still wants that program. The Big 12 is in a good position to pick whomever they want to join and if that's the Ville or Cincy or BYU or perhaps ND, then sucks to be Clemson. I think that President is either very short sided or posturing but either way, he's not showing a whole lot of good judgement in this situation IMO.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Chuck Oliver seems to believe this won't happen, and that's putting it kindly...

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/05/forget-rumors-reasons-why-fsu-would-never-join-the-big-12/

Big 2, Little 8: When fans discuss FSU moving to the Big 12 they often talk about the excitement of football games and road trips to Texas and Oklahoma. True enough. Texas and OU are two of the most powerful , prominent and well-respected brands in all of college sports. These fans fail to acknowledge there are eight other members in the league. Do road trips to Lubbock and Waco, TX, Ames, IA and Morgantown, WV stack up favorably to Atlanta, Boston, Charlottesville, and Chapel Hill? Fact is, once you get past the Longhorns and Sooners the Big 12 is a stinker. In life you are the company you keep and FSU’s brand and reputation is vastly improved keeping company with the current members of the ACC.

The Big 12 hasn’t lost four of its best schools over the past two years because it’s a great place to be. Elite universities are fleeing the Big 12; why would FSU want to join it? If the Big 12 wasn’t good enough for Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M and Missouri – universities who lived in the Big 12 for years, competed in it for years, recruited in it for years, intimately understood the culture and political climate and are actually located in its footprint – then it can’t be good for Florida State. No one’s leaving the ACC despite what you read. The ACC is bedrock solid and has been for years while the Big 12 in each of the past two summers has been on the brink of extinction. Is it that hard for you to imagine something similar happening during the next round of conference expansion in five or six or eight or 10 years and seeing the Seminoles stuck in a Big 12 without Texas? It isn’t for me.

In language as simple as I can make it, NO UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT OR BOARD OF TRUSTEES WILL EVER LEAVE AN ASSOCIATION WITH SCHOOLS LIKE DUKE, UNC, WAKE FOREST, MIAMI, GEORGIA TECH, BOSTON COLLEGE AND VIRGINIA IN FAVOR OF ONE WITH TEXAS TECH, OKLAHOMA STATE, WEST VIRGINIA AND KANSAS STATE.


I am not against change. If FSU were presented an invitation to a better conference than the ACC, namely the SEC, I would advise the Seminoles take it. That invitation is not coming.

Dude is taking no prisoners.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Chuck Oliver seems to believe this won't happen, and that's putting it kindly...

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/05/forget-rumors-reasons-why-fsu-would-never-join-the-big-12/





Dude is taking no prisoners.

This is about money. I don't buy what Oliver has to say here because the fact of the matter is that you could have an all star cast of schools in your Conference but if you can't pay the bills, then you have a problem. The Big 12 can offer relief in that area and the ACC can't. It's going to get worse for the ACC once this championship thing plays out. JMO

 

[The30YardSlant]

This is about money. I don't buy what Oliver has to say here because the fact of the matter is that you could have an all star cast of schools in your Conference but if you can't pay the bills, then you have a problem. The Big 12 can offer relief in that area and the ACC can't. It's going to get worse for the ACC once this championship thing plays out. JMO

The Big XII and the ACC will ultimately end up in an arms race for the right to be the fourth "superconference" along with the Big 10, Pac-12 and SEC when the time comes. Expect the ACC to start launching salvos and trying to make sure they arent left without a chair when the music stops.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The Big XII and the ACC will ultimately end up in an arms race for the right to be the fourth "superconference" along with the Big 10, Pac-12 and SEC when the time comes. Expect the ACC to start launching salvos and trying to make sure they arent left without a chair when the music stops.

The ACC has already screwed themselves in listening more to the Basketball schools vs the football schools and that is why FSU is not really that happy with the ACC as it is.

The ACC better fix things fast or they are going to be the Big East part II and they already have many of the old big east schools in it already.

IF the ACC was smart they would make sure FSU and the other football schools there get something to stay instead of listening to the likes of Duke and UNC.

Oh and for the record...whether they want to be in a conference with the teams listed or not (as oliver stated)...he might want to realize that FSU had a set up with WVU and wanted to keep it but WVU had to pull out due to the big 12 situation...So WVU had to pony up some money to make it go away.

Again the ACC better change some things or they are going to be on the outside looking in even if they don't lose any football schools to other conferences.

 

[DFWJC]

Never say never; anything can happen.

But, I see no advantage for FSU to move to the Big 12.
None.

The ACC just upgraded (today) their TV package so that each school gets 17 million a year. All this talk about money is going away. A 12 team Big 12 would provide about 16.6 mil/year.

The conference has several very good football programs and it's basketball is legendary. Baseball is elite too.

The conference is rated the top overall (top to bottom)academic conference in the country. Do not underestimate that.

And the ACC is located in the geographically desirable (for TV) Eastern seaboard.
In fact, just today, there are strong rumblings that for all of the above reasons, Notre Dame may actually go to the ACC--which is a surprise to me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Big XII and the ACC will ultimately end up in an arms race for the right to be the fourth "superconference" along with the Big 10, Pac-12 and SEC when the time comes. Expect the ACC to start launching salvos and trying to make sure they arent left without a chair when the music stops.

Possibly but I don't think so. They don't have a contract in place that will allow them to do that and the Big 12 pretty much does. There is a reason we keep hearing that major players within that conference are ready to move. It's a Basketball Conference and while I love ACC Basketball, it aint football and that is why they can not compete IMO. It's going to be the Big 12 I think.

 

[DFWJC]

Possibly but I don't think so. They don't have a contract in place that will allow them to do that and the Big 12 pretty much does. There is a reason we keep hearing that major players within that conference are ready to move. It's a Basketball Conference and while I love ACC Basketball, it aint football and that is why they can not compete IMO. It's going to be the Big 12 I think.

Today, the ACC signed a new TV contract that pays each member more than what a 12 team Big 12 team would make.
There is plenty of money.

The ACC has Miami, Florida State, Va Tech, and Clemson. I'd say they do have some very good football programs.

At the next tier, teams like BC, UNC, UVa, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, etc call all be respectable, if not great. That tier in other conferences not named the SEC is very similar.



On another note
In reality, to have a fair playoff someday, there should be 8 instead of 4 conferences....imho. Or maybe 6 , 16 teamers with an 8 team playoff that includes 6 champs and two at large bids.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Never say never; anything can happen.

But, I see no advantage for FSU to move to the Big 12.
None.

The ACC just upgraded (today) their TV package so that each school gets 17 million a year. All this talk about money is going away. A 12 team Big 12 would provide about 16.6 mil/year.

The conference has several very good football programs and it's basketball is legendary. Baseball is elite too.

The conference is rated the top overall (top to bottom)academic conference in the country. Do not underestimate that.

And the ACC is located in the geographically desirable (for TV) Eastern seaboard.
In fact, just today, there are strong rumblings that for all of the above reasons, Notre Dame may actually go to the ACC--which is a surprise to me.

That would still be over 3 million less, per season, in just TV money then if they came to the Big 12 and you still have the problem of being in a BB conference. All things even, if a Football School is in the mix against a SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 or Big 12 school, they are going to come out on the wrong end of the deal because they are not in a Super Conference. I think there is a very good chance that FSU leaves. JMO

 

[rkell87]

Monday, the Big XII agreed to terms of a new TV deal with ESPN and Fox worth a combined $2.6 billion through 2025.

That works out to a yearly average of $20 million per year for each of the school’s members, according to CBSSports.com.


http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/08/fsu-and-the-big-xii/

 

[DFWJC]

That would still be over 3 million less, per season, in just TV money then if they came to the Big 12 and you still have the problem of being in a BB conference. All things even, if a Football School is in the mix against a SEC, Big 10, PAC 10 or Big 12 school, they are going to come out on the wrong end of the deal because they are not in a Super Conference. I think there is a very good chance that FSU leaves. JMO

Big 12 gets almost 200 mil per year. 20 mil per team now and when/if if it goes to 12 teams that's 16.6 per team.

Anyway, I'm not sure how the Pac 12 is considered a football conference any more than the ACC is. USC is a superpower, but after that it is from one year to the next. FSU and Miami are both football schools and are int he ACC. I'd say Clemson and Vtech are too, but without the skins.

The Big 12 has two serious football schools with skins and , like the ACC and Pac 12, a few others that knock on the door from time to time.

 

[rkell87]

btw the big 12 contract numbers are pre third tier rights which are worth millions

 

[rkell87]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/5/9/3009895/acc-football-espn-money-contract-deal



The Big 12's latest deal is expected to pay $20 million to each school annually, in addition to each school being able to sell its own third-tier media rights, with $1 million to $10 million per year being a feasible eventual range for each of those. The ACC's deal doesn't appear to allow that.

 

[DFWJC]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/5/9/3009895/acc-football-espn-money-contract-deal



The Big 12's latest deal is expected to pay $20 million to each school annually, in addition to each school being able to sell its own third-tier media rights, with $1 million to $10 million per year being a feasible eventual range for each of those. The ACC's deal doesn't appear to allow that.

You may be right.

Oddly, I've always thought of FSU and Clemson (with the amazing football atmosphere and stadiums and rabid fans)as great fits for the SEC.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Big 12 gets almost 200 mil per year. 20 mil per team now and when/if if it goes to 12 teams that's 16.6 per team.

Anyway, I'm not sure how the Pac 12 is considered a football conference any more than the ACC is. USC is a superpower, but after that it is from one year to the next. FSU and Miami are both football schools and are int he ACC. I'd say Clemson and Vtech are too, but without the skins.

The Big 12 has two serious football schools with skins and , like the ACC and Pac 12, a few others that knock on the door from time to time.

The reason the ACC got a bigger deal was because they brought in Pitt and Syracuse. It stands to reason that if the Big 12 increases their membership, they too will renegotiate for a bigger contract. The PAC 12 is renegotiating after two years as well.

The biggest incentive for a Big 12 team is that they have their own ability to work out exclusive deals and set up Their own Network deals. That's a lot more money in their pockets. For example, a team like Texas will make over a 120 Million this year. A school like FSU can come in immediately and increase their earnings over nite. They have that kind of Football Program. It's really the difference in Football vs Basketball IMO. I love ACC Basketball, as you know, but Football is king.

 

[MC KAos]

here is an article from chip brown about it, he isnt the most reliable when predicting these things, but this is not about that, he just lays out the advantages to a jump to the big 12. he states what some have talked about, the third tier rights, and apparently FSU is dealing with some money problems in their athletic department.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1363940

look, the ACC is a fine conference, but lets get real, when it comes to football, the big 12 is MUCH more marketable, and if they were able to get FSU and, say, louisville, they would be able to get a lot more money in a new contract than the 16.6 or whatever that it would come out to right now, plus FSU could launch their own network.

 

[MC KAos]

Big 12 gets almost 200 mil per year. 20 mil per team now and when/if if it goes to 12 teams that's 16.6 per team.

Anyway, I'm not sure how the Pac 12 is considered a football conference any more than the ACC is. USC is a superpower, but after that it is from one year to the next. FSU and Miami are both football schools and are int he ACC. I'd say Clemson and Vtech are too, but without the skins.

The Big 12 has two serious football schools with skins and , like the ACC and Pac 12, a few others that knock on the door from time to time.

but i think when it comes to the pac 12, their top teams are at least competitive in the BCS bowl games, USC dominates them, Oregon wins them here and there. I cant remember the last time an ACC school won a BCS bowl, much less convincingly, and they usually get to play an at large team or the big east champ. The Pac 12, big 10 and big 12 have serious national title contenders every year in football, i cant say that about the ACC

 

[rkell87]

TomahawkNation.com‏@TomahawkNation
It is actually $16M per year not 17 because the ACC office takes a cut equal to that of one team I believe

 

[DFWJC]

look, the ACC is a fine conference, but lets get real, when it comes to football, the big 12 is MUCH more marketable, .

I think recently that has been true.

I'm not trying to say the ACC is better than the Big 12 in football...especially not in the very recent years.

I just think because many of us live in Big 12 country we may forget traditons elsewhere.

The current Big 12 members have 3 National Titles since 1980.

The ACC has 9.

Florida St is on the fast track back to again being a powerhouse, imo.
I would almost predict that they will win their next title before UT....and I'm a bit of a UT fan.
OU should be tough this year, so I'll not go that far.

The current ACC has four different teams that have won or shared a national championship since 1980, and five that have played for one.

The current Big 12 has two.

More recently (last 15 years) each conference has two National Champs.

But I do agree that if you ranked the two conferences together, OU and UT would be 1-2 for sure right now (based on the last 5-10 years body of work). After those two, I think the national appeal of the Big 12 seriously drops off.


One last bit of trivia:
Number of players drafted
SEC...42
Big 10... 41
ACC...31
Pac 12...28
Big12...26
Big East...12

If the Big 12 gets a power like FSU, that would really tilt the balance their way. I'd say they would be second behind the SEC at that point.