Spend. Money. Now.

[CowboyRoy]

Brian Billick was a great coach? Gary Kubiak is a great coach? Ron Rivera is a great coach?

Let's wait and see. I'll promise you this...at least one of these young DEs will establish themselves as a guy you think has a great future. Happens all the time. Lawrence will be back. Thornton and Crawford are here. Watch for Damien Wilson, too.

The defense will not be great, but it will be better than the doom and gloom we're hearing.

All those coaches were head and shoulders above Garrett. Some I would consider great. As far as the defense I simply dont see it. They will get steamrolled in the run game and eaten up in the passing game with no pass rush. It will stick out even more this year with the passing game because teams will need to wing the ball having to keep up with our offense.

 

[erod]

All those coaches were head and shoulders above Garrett. Some I would consider great. As far as the defense I simply dont see it. They will get steamrolled in the run game and eaten up in the passing game with no pass rush. It will stick out even more this year with the passing game because teams will need to wing the ball having to keep up with our offense.

Garrett inherited a mess of a roster. Old, ill-fitted, and woefully inept on the line of scrimmage. Only four players remain: Romo, Witten, Free, and Scandrick.

Now they are young, talented, and better built for the future. You saw its glimmer in 2014. Last year was a throwaway when Romo went down.

I think Garrett is a decent coach, but here, he's Vince Lombardi. You'll never get anything more than a coach like this with Jerry. Never will a coach have this much say ever again. You'd better understand that because the next guy will be a clone of Wade Phillips or Dave Campo. Jerry doesn't do the expensive big-name coach.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Garrett inherited a mess of a roster. Old, ill-fitted, and woefully inept on the line of scrimmage. Only four players remain: Romo, Witten, Free, and Scandrick.

Now they are young, talented, and better built for the future. You saw its glimmer in 2014. Last year was a throwaway when Romo went down.

I think Garrett is a decent coach, but here, he's Vince Lombardi. You'll never get anything more than a coach like this with Jerry. Never will a coach have this much say ever again. You'd better understand that because the next guy will be a clone of Wade Phillips or Dave Campo. Jerry doesn't do the expensive big-name coach.

Garrett inherited an 11-5 playoff caliber team that had a bad year because of injury and Romo going down. He had plenty of talent to work with. Garrett is a horrible coach in my opinion. But I respect whatever opinion you may have on the matter.

At least you admit that Garrett is middling and all we can hope for. I would also take Wade and Campo all day long over Garrett.

And FYI..............Garrett has very little say.

 

[erod]

Garrett inherited an 11-5 playoff caliber team that had a bad year because of injury and Romo going down. He had plenty of talent to work with. Garrett is a horrible coach in my opinion. But I respect whatever opinion you may have on the matter.

At least you admit that Garrett is middling and all we can hope for. I would also take Wade and Campo all day long over Garrett.

And FYI..............Garrett has very little say.

No he didn't. He inherited a 1-7 team that had given up and had way too many aging veterans who were simply done.

Andre Gurode, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Kyle Kosier, Leonard Davis, Marion Barber, Patrick Crayton, Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, Gerald Sensabaugh, Montrae Holland, Igor Olshansky.....

Romo and Witten were the young guns. Then there was Miles Austin, Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins.....dudes that were always hurt and overrated.

 

[CyberB0b]

No he didn't. He inherited a 1-7 team that had given up and had way too many aging veterans who were simply done.

Andre Gurode, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Kyle Kosier, Leonard Davis, Marion Barber, Patrick Crayton, Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, Gerald Sensabaugh, Montrae Holland, Igor Olshansky.....

Romo and Witten were the young guns. Then there was Miles Austin, Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins.....dudes that were always hurt and overrated.

Inherited? He was a part of the problem. He was hired as the Assistant Head Coach before Wade got here. He had total autonomy over the offense, and had a lot of input on roster building. Don't act like he came out of nowhere to a complete disaster.

 

[erod]

Inherited? He was a part of the problem. He was hired as the Assistant Head Coach before Wade got here. He had total autonomy over the offense, and had a lot of input on roster building. Don't act like he came out of nowhere to a complete disaster.

He was here, but he had no real say in the direction of the team other than coordinating the offense. And he had to do that with an offensive line of constantly hurt old guys.

Plus, Garrett had to tolerate Wade and his "whatever you want to do is fine" attitude toward the players.

 

[CyberB0b]

He was here, but he had no real say in the direction of the team other than coordinating the offense. And he had to do that with an offensive line of constantly hurt old guys.

He had as much, or maybe even more say than Wade Phillips.

Plus, Garrett had to tolerate Wade and his "whatever you want to do is fine" attitude toward the players.

How has that changed, exactly? It seems that same attitude is prevalent around here.

 

[erod]

He had as much, or maybe even more say than Wade Phillips.



How has that changed, exactly? It seems that same attitude is prevalent around here.

No, it doesn't. This is a well-run locker room with a lot of RKGs. Jerry throws in his knuckleheads, but I think the rest just roll their eyes and press on. Garrett has done wonders with Dez Bryant, who is a knucklehead, but has genuine intentions not to be.

 

[Idgit]

Brian Billick was a great coach? Gary Kubiak is a great coach? Ron Rivera is a great coach?

Let's wait and see. I'll promise you this...at least one of these young DEs will establish themselves as a guy you think has a great future. Happens all the time. Lawrence will be back. Thornton and Crawford are here. Watch for Damien Wilson, too.

The defense will not be great, but it will be better than the doom and gloom we're hearing.

(You're right about Garrett, but I'm not wading into that one just to derail your thread). The Cowboys said going into the offseason before last year that the plan was to go deep on DL and rotate heavily. That was before Hardy fell into their laps. Hardy changed the plan a bit for obvious reasons, but they've still quietly gone about adding players with relatively high picks (Lawrence and Gregory) and supplementing them with mid-rounders and value FAs to get that rotation. Whether it works or not, that's been the plan.

I don't have a problem with your word 'significant' for Mayowa, either. Whether fans like it or not, the scouts identified him as somebody they wanted to contribute at the most significant defensive position for the next few years. And he role just got a lot bigger. Sure, he's proven nothing in the league, but that's not how they paid him necessarily, and that's not how they plan to use him.

I've been complaining about the defense for years now, and I don't think we'll be good. I know we don't have a lot of talent on that side of the ball at all, and that's unnecessary and it sucks. But I do think the group we've got will be playing under some advantageous circumstances against a lot of bad or mediocre teams this season and that's going to make them look better than they really are. Statistically, they're probably going to 'surprise' us. The problem will come in when we're playing good teams who can keep pace with our offense. It's too easy for a good QB to get a passing effectiveness advantage over Dallas when one half of the equation's been neglected for too long in favor of long shots and running backs. When you're playing nothing but good teams at the end of the year and in the playoffs, that has a way of catching up with you quickly.

 

[theebs]

He was here, but he had no real say in the direction of the team other than coordinating the offense. And he had to do that with an offensive line of constantly hurt old guys.

Plus, Garrett had to tolerate Wade and his "whatever you want to do is fine" attitude toward the players.

I don't think you can make that statement after last season. Jerry and Stephen did the exact same thing last year as they did in 08. They went out and signed the nfl's number 1 villain and then had old players run around and tell everyone they are changed..

The pacman signing was one of the most idiotic things jerry has done, one of the next is greg hardy. Both were bad for the team, both were bad for the locker room, both underachieved, both missed games and both under performed.

Both also undermined the coaches because they answered to Jerry.

After the 08 season zach thomas said this was the worst locker room he had ever been in.
After the 15 season Jeremy mincey said it was him or me because hardy is not good for the team.

You can put Owens in this category also. NFL Villain number 1 or 2 (maybe it was Vick) and Jerry signed him then they had to run the story about parcells knowing one of his former position coaches closely. Owens answered to Jerry.

Every time this team gets some unity and gets close to being a contending team Jerry and Stephen regardless of the Head Coach step in and do something foolish because they have no patience and think their risk taking can put them over the top because it worked once with haley.

 

[Idgit]

No, it doesn't. This is a well-run locker room with a lot of RKGs. Jerry throws in his knuckleheads, but I think the rest just roll their eyes and press on. Garrett has done wonders with Dez Bryant, who is a knucklehead, but has genuine intentions not to be.

Yep. I don't care how good a cook you are, when the guy who owns the BBQ joint keeps dropping little turds in your chili, there's a point where you can't cover it up with sugar and more peppers. The solution to that problem is not to get a new chili cook. You have to wait for the guy who owns the BBQ joint to die. Because he's not selling, and he's not going to stop dropping in the turds to 'help you out.'

 

[CyberB0b]

Yep. I don't care how good a cook you are, when the guy who owns the BBQ joint keeps dropping little turds in your chili, there's a point where you can't cover it up with sugar and more peppers. The solution to that problem is not to get a new chili cook. You have to wait for the guy who owns the BBQ joint to die. Because he's not selling, and he's not going to stop dropping in the turds to 'help you out.'

Stephen isn't any better. In fact, he may be worse.

 

[the_h0wey]

Stephen, stuff it. Jerry, just go drown yourself in Blue and stay out of the football room.

I don't want to hear about financial responsibility and cap space right now. Save me from the intellectual football gibberish about asset allocation and fungibility.

We need defensive ends. And we need them now. There are two solutions right in front of you.

Call Seattle and trade for Michael Bennett. Then sign him. Then, call Dwight Freeney. Sign him, too.

Three consecutive 2nd round picks have amassed Cheech and Chong and a risky futures bet. Meanwhile, a band of gypsies will wander on the field against the Giants in two months with a long season ahead.

A pass rush would cure oh so much.

Spend. Money. Now.

Why would they trade Bennett? He has 2 years left on a extremely reasonable contract for what he provides to the team. Seattle would have to be drunk to trade him, and it would cost you the farm with no guarantee that he resigns with the team.

 

[Idgit]

I don't think you can make that statement after last season. Jerry and Stephen did the exact same thing last year as they did in 08. They went out and signed the nfl's number 1 villain and then had old players run around and tell everyone they are changed..

The pacman signing was one of the most idiotic things jerry has done, one of the next is greg hardy. Both were bad for the team, both were bad for the locker room, both underachieved, both missed games and both under performed.

Both also undermined the coaches because they answered to Jerry.

After the 08 season zach thomas said this was the worst locker room he had ever been in.
After the 15 season Jeremy mincey said it was him or me because hardy is not good for the team.

You can put Owens in this category also. NFL Villain number 1 or 2 (maybe it was Vick) and Jerry signed him then they had to run the story about parcells knowing one of his former position coaches closely. Owens answered to Jerry.

Every time this team gets some unity and gets close to being a contending team Jerry and Stephen regardless of the Head Coach step in and do something foolish because they have no patience and think their risk taking can put them over the top because it worked once with haley.

Really, you have to take it on a case by case basis. Pacman (who I *hated* having here, btw) did in fact turn his career back around. And the Hardy risk was well worth taking last season, given where we were on the DL and where we were on offense. The guy was well-liked in the CAR locker room and not known to be a cancer. He imploded emotionally late in the year, but for a good several games there he was a key defensive player. Those risks--if they don't come with big long-term money--are smart to take. Where we erred was in not cutting him when his antics started to become a real problem in the locker room. And that's an area where having a Jerry Jones hurts you, because he's not going to give up on a healthy player who's capable of a huge contribution if the post season is in sight.

 

[Idgit]

Stephen isn't any better. In fact, he may be worse.

Why do you say that? I mean, apart from the fact that everybody around here seems to want to believe it? I haven't seen anything from Stephen Jones to suggest that he's not perfectly reasonable when it comes to building the team and managing the cap the right way. He won't stand up to Jerry, for sure. Neither will Jason. Because Jerry's the owner and Jerry's going to run this thing the way he wants it. They idea that all it takes is 'balls to stand up to Jerry' to change things is ridiculous. There is no changing things while Jerry's alive and kicking, no matter what anybody does. That's the way it is in Dallas, and the best that can be hoped for is to manage him so that the turds in the soup are as few and as small as possible. There's not another option.

 

[erod]

Why would they trade Bennett? He has 2 years left on a extremely reasonable contract for what he provides to the team. Seattle would have to be drunk to trade him, and it would cost you the farm with no guarantee that he resigns with the team.

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2016/05/seattle_seahawks_gm_de_michael.html

 

[erod]

I don't think you can make that statement after last season. Jerry and Stephen did the exact same thing last year as they did in 08. They went out and signed the nfl's number 1 villain and then had old players run around and tell everyone they are changed..

The pacman signing was one of the most idiotic things jerry has done, one of the next is greg hardy. Both were bad for the team, both were bad for the locker room, both underachieved, both missed games and both under performed.

Both also undermined the coaches because they answered to Jerry.

After the 08 season zach thomas said this was the worst locker room he had ever been in.
After the 15 season Jeremy mincey said it was him or me because hardy is not good for the team.

You can put Owens in this category also. NFL Villain number 1 or 2 (maybe it was Vick) and Jerry signed him then they had to run the story about parcells knowing one of his former position coaches closely. Owens answered to Jerry.

Every time this team gets some unity and gets close to being a contending team Jerry and Stephen regardless of the Head Coach step in and do something foolish because they have no patience and think their risk taking can put them over the top because it worked once with haley.

All true, and a good chronology you provided.

However, I think this locker room is a lot more solid. Guys like Hardy and Gregory aren't working into the fabric of the team chemistry like before with Pacman and TO. This group shuns those guys.

 

[CyberB0b]

Why do you say that? I mean, apart from the fact that everybody around here seems to want to believe it? I haven't seen anything from Stephen Jones to suggest that he's not perfectly reasonable when it comes to building the team and managing the cap the right way. He won't stand up to Jerry, for sure. Neither will Jason. Because Jerry's the owner and Jerry's going to run this thing the way he wants it. They idea that all it takes is 'balls to stand up to Jerry' to change things is ridiculous. There is no changing things while Jerry's alive and kicking, no matter what anybody does. That's the way it is in Dallas, and the best that can be hoped for is to manage him so that the turds in the soup are as few and as small as possible. There's not another option.

For a number of reasons. The main reason is that because he was a part of this organization at such a young age, he might actually try to trick himself into thinking he knows something about football or how to run a successful organization.

 

[theebs]

Really, you have to take it on a case by case basis. Pacman (who I *hated* having here, btw) did in fact turn his career back around. And the Hardy risk was well worth taking last season, given where we were on the DL and where we were on offense. The guy was well-liked in the CAR locker room and not known to be a cancer. He imploded emotionally late in the year, but for a good several games there he was a key defensive player. Those risks--if they don't come with big long-term money--are smart to take. Where we erred was in not cutting him when his antics started to become a real problem in the locker room. And that's an area where having a Jerry Jones hurts you, because he's not going to give up on a healthy player who's capable of a huge contribution if the post season is in sight.

well pacman went to Cincy where the national media has no interest. When he signed their basically nobody cared what he did. Thats one of the reasons Dallas can't sign these guys.

Pacman beating up the security guards jerry appointed in the bathroom of a club was one of those fun moments only cowboys fans get to experience.

Romo was injured by fred robbins vs the giants in 08 and played through the pain the final two weeks while guys like tank and pacman were on the sideline celebrating how the season was over and they could get out of their contracts.

08 is the worst season to me still of any outside 97. '10 and '15 were bad but 08 is the standard bearer for Jerry and Stephen's buffoonery. Is that a word?

 

[Idgit]

well pacman went to Cincy where the national media has no interest. When he signed their basically nobody cared what he did. Thats one of the reasons Dallas can't sign these guys.

Pacman beating up the security guards jerry appointed in the bathroom of a club was one of those fun moments only cowboys fans get to experience.

Romo was injured by fred robbins vs the giants in 08 and played through the pain the final two weeks while guys like tank and pacman were on the sideline celebrating how the season was over and they could get out of their contracts.

08 is the worst season to me still of any outside 97. '10 and '15 were bad but 08 is the standard bearer for Jerry and Stephen's buffoonery. Is that a word?

I'm with you on '08, except '15 was worse in my book, only because of the reversal of expectations. We gotta rein Jerry in on the risks with the wrong sorts of troubled players.

But if we're going to take them, I'd like them structured like we structured Hardy, at least. I'd just like to see us pull the rip-cord on these guys much sooner. It's one thing to take a chance on a Rolando McClain if you think there's value there (because he is a damn good football player when he wants to be). It's another to keep him around so long after he's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he doesn't want to be a part of the team. Same with Hardy. Bring him in, fine. But whatever he did that made him a persona-non-grata should have gotten him removed from the roster on the spot.

Guys like Gregory, who I think has a legitimate emotional condition, I have in a different category. Help them if you can and if you think they can help the team. Just don't count on them going forward. If they give you anything, it's gravy.

Jerry's going to take his shots on troubled players. We just have to do it in a way that doesn't cost us premium picks and that doesn't put a slow-burn on the team chemistry. I don't know if that's possible or not, but if it is, I do think it happens with guys like Stephen and Garrett pushing hard for it all the time and as a united front.