News: ST: Jason Witten not a Hall of Famer? Some pundits don't think so

DFWJC

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,601
Reaction score
48,368
ABQCOWBOY said:
Yep they are. Have no idea when the last time that happened was, if ever, but I bet it's been a few season.
Click to expand...
One of my brother and his wife moved a couple of hours from Wichita....don't ask.
Anyway, if my schedule works, I may go see them during the CWS if UNC and/or ECU are there.
 

dckid

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
2,508
SlimBig said:
Bomani Jones has shouted from the rooftops that Witten isn't a Hall of Famer.
I don't agree (I don't think he's 1st ballot though) but Bomani makes a compelling argument.
DVNjCL9VwAA-811.jpg:large

His biggest arguments are that he was never the best TE in the game any time he played. Never better than Gates, Gonzales, Gronk, etc.
He also argues that longevity and reliability aren't reasons to make the HOF.
I think Rich Gosselin also wrote an article about obstacles in Witten getting in. (I'm not sure though.)

What I find most interesting about Bomani's Witten takes is that he says alot of sports people agree with him privately but would never say it out loud.
I wonder if because of this, you won't see Witten make it the 1st few times to the Hall.
Click to expand...

Some good points. Witten is a HOF’er but by no means a first ballot. The arguments that are made against him are valid. I would have taken Gates, Gonzalez, Gronk over him any reasonable person/GM would. I think Kelce will have a better career, Jimmy Grahams peak was higher but not his body of work.
Again I’m not saying anything bad as it is an honor that be a top 3 TE over a 15 year career. HOF no doubt.
 
ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
DFWJC said:
One of my brother and his wife moved a couple of hours from Wichita....don't ask.
Anyway, if my schedule works, I may go see them during the CWS if UNC and/or ECU are there.
Click to expand...

That would be a pretty cool trip. I'm thinking of trying to go to Austin/DFW the weekend of Sept. 15th. The Horns have USC and the Cowboys have the Gents. I don't know if I can swing it or not but I'd sure like to.
 
ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
dckid said:
Some good points. Witten is a HOF’er but by no means a first ballot. The arguments that are made against him are valid. I would have taken Gates, Gonzalez, Gronk over him any reasonable person/GM would. I think Kelce will have a better career, Jimmy Grahams peak was higher but not his body of work.
Again I’m not saying anything bad as it is an honor that be a top 3 TE over a 15 year career. HOF no doubt.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think this is accurate. The problem here is that everything is being measured off of receptions. None of the TEs you just named are even close to being as good of inline blockers as Witten was. Any "reasonable person/GM" would make that kind of determination, based on what their offense requires. If your a running team and a complete TE is more important, then you would take none of the players listed over Witten. If you are a passing team and all your doing is sending your TE down the seam, then your argument has much more merit but to say any reasonable person or GM would do this is just not accurate.
 
Bullflop

Bullflop

Cowboys Diehard
Messages
25,441
Reaction score
30,683
Witten will be a HOFer, no doubt! He may not have been the most prolific YAC performer but was certainly one who surely stood the test of time. If a team ever needed a TE with the ability to get a much-needed 1st down, Witten was your guy. This was proven many times for a decade and a half.
 
blueblood70

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,925
Reaction score
28,119
ejthedj said:
Absolutely ridiculous. Witten is a first ballot HOFer. He's like 6th all time in catches, including receivers. He has the second best TE numbers of all time.
Click to expand...
well tight ends in general dont get a lot of luv for first ballots..yes he should but for sure hes a HOF regardless if its first year eligible or not..i heard a local talk show discusiing this and bevcause of his counterparts like Gonzalez, Sharp, gates, and few others that played in the same era , his per catch avg and Tds didnt measure up and that reason maybe he wil have to wait..
 
dallasdave

dallasdave

Well-Known Member
Messages
32,326
Reaction score
88,063
Bullflop said:
Witten will be a HOFer, no doubt! He may not have been the most prolific YAC performer but was certainly one who surely stood the test of time. If a team ever needed a TE with the ability to get a much-needed 1st down, Witten was your guy. This was proven many times for a decade and a half.
Click to expand...
Well said my friend :bow::bow::bow:
 
conner01

conner01

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,629
Reaction score
26,422
He will get in
Being first ballot many times comes down to who he goes up against that year
 

dckid

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
2,508
ABQCOWBOY said:
Yeah, I don't think this is accurate. The problem here is that everything is being measured off of receptions. None of the TEs you just named are even close to being as good of inline blockers as Witten was. Any "reasonable person/GM" would make that kind of determination, based on what their offense requires. If your a running team and a complete TE is more important, then you would take none of the players listed over Witten. If you are a passing team and all your doing is sending your TE down the seam, then your argument has much more merit but to say any reasonable person or GM would do this is just not accurate.
Click to expand...

We are really not having an objective decision here. My preference for what I want a TE to do is different that you want.
I would prefer a Gonzalez/Gronk/Gates vs Witten. To me the three guys those guys are more valuable.
Witten is going to make the HOF, as he has the numbers and first ballot vs 3 or 4 year makes no difference at the end of the day.

I'm not a Commander apologist at all, but this discussion we are having around Witten was the same discussion around Art Monk? Do you remember that? How many years did he have to wait to get in? Remember Peter King's MMQB columns against Monk getting in the Hall?
I think Monk & Witten should be in the HOF, there is no shame in playing 15 years and not being the best at your position (even in that era).

I don't even know what constitutes a HOF'er any more. I think Jimmy Johnson should be in the Hall

Do I think TO should have waited before getting in? - No way
Do I think Charles Haley should have waited? - No Way

Do I think Terrell Davis should have even gotten in? - No I dont.
John Stallworth
Lynn Swann -Neither one of these guys had the numbers per se, but they had the moments in the SB's and team success.

Like usual we as fans want a black and white formula, but the voters never do that. The criteria is still large % numbers, then some mix ( in any particular order) Impact & dominace, team success, popularity, etc.
 
ABQCOWBOY

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
dckid said:
We are really not having an objective decision here. My preference for what I want a TE to do is different that you want.
I would prefer a Gonzalez/Gronk/Gates vs Witten. To me the three guys those guys are more valuable.
Witten is going to make the HOF, as he has the numbers and first ballot vs 3 or 4 year makes no difference at the end of the day.

I'm not a Commander apologist at all, but this discussion we are having around Witten was the same discussion around Art Monk? Do you remember that? How many years did he have to wait to get in? Remember Peter King's MMQB columns against Monk getting in the Hall?
I think Monk & Witten should be in the HOF, there is no shame in playing 15 years and not being the best at your position (even in that era).

I don't even know what constitutes a HOF'er any more. I think Jimmy Johnson should be in the Hall

Do I think TO should have waited before getting in? - No way
Do I think Charles Haley should have waited? - No Way

Do I think Terrell Davis should have even gotten in? - No I dont.
John Stallworth
Lynn Swann -Neither one of these guys had the numbers per se, but they had the moments in the SB's and team success.

Like usual we as fans want a black and white formula, but the voters never do that. The criteria is still large % numbers, then some mix ( in any particular order) Impact & dominace, team success, popularity, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you are confused. What, exactly, do you think the discussion we are having is?
 

dckid

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
2,508
ABQCOWBOY said:
I'm pretty sure you are confused. What, exactly, do you think the discussion we are having is?
Click to expand...

Sorry Sir, I don't think i am confused at all.

The Thread discussion is whether Witten is a HOF or not. In my first post I said he should be a HOF'er but I questioned whether he should be first ballot or not. I also gave an opinion on what my preference is for TE.. Witten vs Gonzalez, Gates, Gronk.
Our discussion morphed more towards preference, and whether most people would choose one over another. Your counterpoint which is valid is the choice of TE is based on team need.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top