State Of The Dallas Cowboys: The Head Coach

[Chocolate Lab]

This is baseless and inflammatory. It's worthy of deletion but I'll leave as an example of a post with absolutely zero contribution to the site.

There are very few who truly believe winning is not important to Jerry. It's his raison d'etre

One, why is what he said more baseless than claiming Garrett is the next Tom Landry?

And two, winning is absolutely not Jerry's raison d'etre. He admitted as much when he said he'd have fired the GM if the GM weren't Jerry Jones.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Great post! One minor point I'm not quite clear on is that JG is better at developing talent. Who specifically are we talking about here? The 1st RD OL have excelled but kind of expected considering their draft pos., and would include TW but couldn't think of many others. Leary and Harris could qualify too as contributors but no other young talent?

1st round talent being developed shouldn't be a given and developing that talent (outside of injury) should be given credit.

I really like DeMarco Murray. He's developed into a fine NFL tailback. The development isn't the problem, it's our use of him.

I like the development of Beasley who was undrafted. Terrence Williams appears to have real potential. I think Harris is a great punt returner and special teams player. I'll wait on Escobar, but I think he can be valuable for us (again, poorly used in the game) and can eventually replace Witten.

Hatcher became an instantly better player under Garrett. So did Spencer. In fact, I was fed up with Spencer under Wade in the 2010 season. Spencer would use a jump around move, but lose his gap responsibility and teams would take advantage of it. Spencer didn't fear Wade, once Garrett became coach that nonsense stopped and Spencer became a good player for the team instead of a liability.

Sean Lee, if he could stay healthy. We'll wait and see on Bruce Carter. Scandrick clearly improved under Garrett. And there's also Dan Bailey who I think gets overlooked.

I just see a lot of progress with these players and there are some that at least show some real potential (Escobar, Dunbar, Williams, etc) along with the O-Line which has been resurrected.

I think one key weakness is that Garrett hasn't been great at developing the QB position. I think Romo has regressed since 2009. Stephen McGee was a flop and we still have nothing in the way of a replacement for Romo once he retires. Hopefully, Linehan is the answer. I think Linehan is a sharp guy, but gets carried away with using shotgun and I think that has been a bigger problem for Tony than a help.







YR

 

[BigStar]

1st round talent being developed shouldn't be a given and developing that talent (outside of injury) should be given credit.

I really like DeMarco Murray. He's developed into a fine NFL tailback. The development isn't the problem, it's our use of him.

I like the development of Beasley who was undrafted. Terrence Williams appears to have real potential. I think Harris is a great punt returner and special teams player. I'll wait on Escobar, but I think he can be valuable for us (again, poorly used in the game) and can eventually replace Witten.

Hatcher became an instantly better player under Garrett. So did Spencer. In fact, I was fed up with Spencer under Wade in the 2010 season. Spencer would use a jump around move, but lose his gap responsibility and teams would take advantage of it. Spencer didn't fear Wade, once Garrett became coach that nonsense stopped and Spencer became a good player for the team instead of a liability.

Sean Lee, if he could stay healthy. We'll wait and see on Bruce Carter. Scandrick clearly improved under Garrett. And there's also Dan Bailey who I think gets overlooked.

I just see a lot of progress with these players and there are some that at least show some real potential (Escobar, Dunbar, Williams, etc) along with the O-Line which has been resurrected.

I think one key weakness is that Garrett hasn't been great at developing the QB position. I think Romo has regressed since 2009. Stephen McGee was a flop and we still have nothing in the way of a replacement for Romo once he retires. Hopefully, Linehan is the answer. I think Linehan is a sharp guy, but gets carried away with using shotgun and I think that has been a bigger problem for Tony than a help.


YR

You are correct, as fans we know 1st round picks aren't a given and am grateful the team has done well there. I'd admit I'm not above having my bias towards JG make it harder for me to acknowledge those aspects. Beasley could turn into a great niche/slot player but haven't seen the team use him in way that really exploits his level of quickness to this point. Agree 100% about Romo and JG relationship not being the positive force most assume. The team has also been overspending on backup QBs instead of developing talent in house. Good call.

I hadn't considered his influence on the D because the team always seemed so split (purposefully through org. layout) but you are correct that one would have to acknowledge aspects that improved on that side as well. Hatcher, and OScan did show improvement but Spencer did have a great year in 09 under Wade during that playoff run. Lee had "it" right away, similar to Dez/Murray. Good response, and see where you are coming from.

 

[birdwells1]

Same old song. No playoffs fire him and start all over again. If you bothered to look around the league you'd see that isn't the best way to win. Oh, but SF yada. Sucked for years and built the team. There are lessons to be learned from the more successful teams esp Seattle and its use of CBs. But like most things there aren't shortcuts to long term success.

Oh, but you're a Garrett fan. No, I've finally after all his time here begun to think he might work out but I'm still on the fence about him as a HC and his offensive system. I can see some positive things I like. He'd better get the defense straightened out quickly. The excuse of an old team is gone. The excuse of cap hell is about over. The team is drafting better which may or may not be in part due to Garrett but that excuse is fading into the sunset as well. I refuse to believe we will have as many injuries on one side of the ball again so I don't see that as an excuse. We are going to be in the 4-3 again although many didn't play in it last year. So that excuse will be gone after this year and it wasn't much of one anyway IMO. It's your 11 agin their 11.

So again we'll see what this team can do but I strongly suspect unless the team tanks you will see Garrett again.

I agree with your last statement.

 

[CCBoy]

1st round talent being developed shouldn't be a given and developing that talent (outside of injury) should be given credit.

I really like DeMarco Murray. He's developed into a fine NFL tailback. The development isn't the problem, it's our use of him.

I like the development of Beasley who was undrafted. Terrence Williams appears to have real potential. I think Harris is a great punt returner and special teams player. I'll wait on Escobar, but I think he can be valuable for us (again, poorly used in the game) and can eventually replace Witten.

Hatcher became an instantly better player under Garrett. So did Spencer. In fact, I was fed up with Spencer under Wade in the 2010 season. Spencer would use a jump around move, but lose his gap responsibility and teams would take advantage of it. Spencer didn't fear Wade, once Garrett became coach that nonsense stopped and Spencer became a good player for the team instead of a liability.

Sean Lee, if he could stay healthy. We'll wait and see on Bruce Carter. Scandrick clearly improved under Garrett. And there's also Dan Bailey who I think gets overlooked.

I just see a lot of progress with these players and there are some that at least show some real potential (Escobar, Dunbar, Williams, etc) along with the O-Line which has been resurrected.

I think one key weakness is that Garrett hasn't been great at developing the QB position. I think Romo has regressed since 2009. Stephen McGee was a flop and we still have nothing in the way of a replacement for Romo once he retires. Hopefully, Linehan is the answer. I think Linehan is a sharp guy, but gets carried away with using shotgun and I think that has been a bigger problem for Tony than a help.







YR

I am feeling the appearance of regression for Tony Romo, is involved with his integration into the development of offensive strategy and a greater hand at the line of scrimmage. He had an adjustment coming there.

Also, with Travis Frederick assuming line calls at the line of scrimmage, that should give more mental space for Tony to make his own calls as well.

 

[big dog cowboy]

AMAZING? are you drunk?

No. I double checked my spelling and grammer and it seems OK so not sure why you are concerned.

 

[burmafrd]

No. I double checked my spelling and grammer and it seems OK so not sure why you are concerned.

just laughing at the idea that anyone could call what he has done amazing. You are without a doubt the #1 Garrett homer now.

 

[big dog cowboy]

just laughing at the idea that anyone could call what he has done amazing. You are without a doubt the #1 Garrett homer now.

Strange considering I don't like the guy. I'm on record saying as much.

 

[jobberone]

I don't think it is fair to label Wade as an 'awful' head coach. He's won everywhere he's gone and had a career winning record. He was the last coach to do anything of substance in Buffalo. And you think Jerry Jones is bad, Ralph Wilson was FAR worse of an owner and was a big-time meddler (he was the guy that pushed for Rob Johnson to play over Flutie).

What I find unforgiveable about Wade was that after the 2008 season he stated that his 'nice guy' approach didn't work and he will have to get on guys. They released T.O. and Wade was off to being 'tough' on the players. And it worked. The team went 11-5 and players brought intensity and focus into each game, particularly Mike Jenkins who had a Pro Bowl season. But, Wade couldn't help himself and slacked off in 2010 and lost the team. It's hard to break out of old habits, but when you do and it works the best it has ever worked for you and you're at the best position you have ever been in....only to go back to the old habits makes you a fool.

The main issue with Wade is that he was terrible at developing talent. I still believe that is what mostly being a successful head coach is about. I have issues with Jerry as a GM, but I believe he has gotten his fair share of talent for Wade and Garrett. Wade was poor at developing players because he didn't instill the core values needed to be a great player in the league. And while the NFL is not a very 'rah rah' type of league, it is still a game that requires the coach to motivate the players. Jimmy wasn't very 'rah rah', but he had so many different methods to motivate players (and this coming from an anti-Jimmy fan). So when you can't develop players, you end up where Wade ended up...a 1-7 record on a team that quits on the coach and a dearth of talent that needs to be overhauled.


Garrett is much better at developing talent. But for all of his Ivy League education, I believe the irony here is he's a very dull in-game coach. I also don't think he's much of a motivator outside of he will cut a guy that is not motivated or wait to the end of the season to cut the player. I find his speeches very banal and I'm only amazed how others, particularly in the press, think those speeches are the greatest things ever spoken. I also think he has politicked since he has become a Coordinator. He sure does a great job of passing the blame. In essence, he reminds me of the Executive working for a corporation whose dad was a well respected executive and one would think he should be a great executive given the bloodlines and education...but when he continues to disappoint his best skill appears to be passing the buck and saying the right things that the right people like to hear.

To me, he has to make the playoffs or he should be gone.







YR

Don't agree with it all but this is a good post. Wade is just a great guy and he can win. I'm not so sure he can win real big. He knows football and anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking clearly IMO.

 

[jobberone]

One, why is what he said more baseless than claiming Garrett is the next Tom Landry?

And two, winning is absolutely not Jerry's raison d'etre. He admitted as much when he said he'd have fired the GM if the GM weren't Jerry Jones.

I never said Garrett was the next Tom Landry. This is the dribble from your side of the ball. If you have a quote taken in context then let us see it. Otherwise let's not confuse issues by misquoting anyone here for whatever reasons.

As far as Jerry the GM, firing himself and winning not what drives Jerry, we'll have to agree to disagree. It's not as simple as you either seem to think or wish to use to debate.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I never claimed you said it. But others have.

 

[jobberone]

I never claimed you said it. But others have.

Ok, my bad.

I think most have, IMO, compared the situation of him not winning immediately being analogous to Landry's early years. I wouldn't agree anyone is a Tom Landry although some may equal his genius on defense. Maybe. There will never be another Tom Landry who puts in a new offense and defense the league has never seen, prepares game plans on both sides of the ball every week that most agree would win most games if executed properly, and win consistently. And I'm not even getting into Tom Landry the person.

 

[jobberone]

I agree with your last statement.

LOL. Actually really laughing here. Should I be glad you like the last part, sad you don't like it all or most of it, or yes.

 

[birdwells1]

LOL. Actually really laughing here. Should I be glad you like the last part, sad you don't like it all or most of it, or yes.

I just think that when everyones tells Jerry that his way is wrong it just makes him dig Iin that much stronger. Garrett was hand picked by him to be the future head coach in 2007 so he's going to get more opportunities than another coach would, as long as the team doesnt completely tank he has a chance to keep his job.

 

[jobberone]

I just think that when everyones tells Jerry that his way is wrong it just makes him dig Iin that much stronger. Garrett was hand picked by him to be the future head coach in 2007 so he's going to get more opportunities than another coach would, as long as the team doesnt completely tank he has a chance to keep his job.

That's the rumor. I'm not that unhappy about it nor am I in love with it. I like the stability and would like to see where this train is going before getting off.

 

[khiladi]

Yeah, but can they do it and still stay 500?

With a franchise QB and the NFC East being the worst division in football they can..

 

[khiladi]

Garrett is much better at developing talent. But for all of his Ivy League education, I believe the irony here is he's a very dull in-game coach. I also don't think he's much of a motivator outside of he will cut a guy that is not motivated or wait to the end of the season to cut the player. I find his speeches very banal and I'm only amazed how others, particularly in the press, think those speeches are the greatest things ever spoken. I also think he has politicked since he has become a Coordinator. He sure does a great job of passing the blame. In essence, he reminds me of the Executive working for a corporation whose dad was a well respected executive and one would think he should be a great executive given the bloodlines and education...but when he continues to disappoint his best skill appears to be passing the buck and saying the right things that the right people like to hear.
YR

For the life of me, can somebody explain how Garrett develops talent, when everybody keeps telling me he's too busy cleaning up the roster? Who exactly has he developed? Gus Frerotte, a like 20 year veteran before he went to Miami, or that other bum QB in Miami, whose name escapes me right now. Everytime Garrett is blamed for his losses, his supporters keep telling me he has no talent. It isn't like Ogeltree was on here because he wasn't a Garrett guy. Mile Austin didn't imporve with him, but essentially becoming a scape-goat despite saving Garrett from embarassment the year he tore it up in KC. Roy Williams didn't come through fruition here. Felix Jones didn't develop. Two years ago, it was Dez Bryant who couldn't learn the playbook.

 

[khiladi]

Hatcher became an instantly better player under Garrett. So did Spencer. In fact, I was fed up with Spencer under Wade in the 2010 season. Spencer would use a jump around move, but lose his gap responsibility and teams would take advantage of it. Spencer didn't fear Wade, once Garrett became coach that nonsense stopped and Spencer became a good player for the team instead of a liability.

Huh? Hatcher only had a great season, when they went 4-3 and played for a contract. His other years with Ryan, when Garrett were in charge were just as consistent as they were with Wade. How does one attribute his development to Garrett and not, our DC, that everybody knows was a Jerry move? Spencer was injured in his tenure through Wade and his best season was when he was finally healthy. Even when playing, Spencer wasn't a joke and he was actually our best run defender even during the Wade era. A couple of plays he broke responsibility, but when your down 50 points and your offense can't do anything, that happens. Spencer had the same issue he had all year throughout Wade's tenure, which was his knees.

Sean Lee was drafted by Wade and I believe the year he was drafted is when Wade was fired. And when Sean got on the field, he was already great. What development are you talking about?

If you talk about Murray, then you got to talk about Felix Jones, who sucked. Marion Barber got worse. Dan Bailey came out the gates a legend. If you talk about Williams, Miles Austin got worse and worse each year. That's declining production. What do you define as development?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Huh? Hatcher only had a great season, when they went 4-3 and played for a contract. His other years with Ryan, when Garrett were in charge were just as consistent as they were with Wade. How does one attribute his development to Garrett and not, our DC, that everybody knows was a Jerry move? Spencer was injured in his tenure through Wade and his best season was when he was finally healthy. Even when playing, Spencer wasn't a joke and he was actually our best run defender even during the Wade era. A couple of plays he broke responsibility, but when your down 50 points and your offense can't do anything, that happens. Spencer had the same issue he had all year throughout Wade's tenure, which was his knees.

Sean Lee was drafted by Wade and I believe the year he was drafted is when Wade was fired. And when Sean got on the field, he was already great. What development are you talking about?

If you talk about Murray, then you got to talk about Felix Jones, who sucked. Marion Barber got worse. Dan Bailey came out the gates a legend. If you talk about Williams, Miles Austin got worse and worse each year. That's declining production. What do you define as development?

The topic was making progress or lack thereof under whomever was the Head Coach. And we are talking about *development* of the player, not what HC the player was drafted under.


Hatcher had a really good 2011 and 2012 seasons. But, because he was playing in a 3-4 where you don’t put up big numbers, some fans don’t know any better. He then had a terrific season in 2013. Under 2 different D-Coordinators in 2 different schemes, but under 1 head coach. Under Wade he was a meaningless backup.


Spencer wasn’t always injured under Wade. Far from it. He was also known to slack off during rehab sessions under Wade. He would get a minimal fine from Wade because Wade felt that he shouldn’t have to get on guys that were supposed to be adults. Garrett doesn’t play around in that fashion. If you ever watch the tape of Spencer in 2010, he was constantly freelancing and losing his gap control under Wade. Teams saw it and exposed him badly and Spencer didn’t seemingly care. Then Wade was fired and Spencer didn’t do that anymore. And this wasn’t ‘freelancing when you’re down 50 points’ these were in critical situations.


Lee hardly played under Wade (injuries and being a rookie). But he has progressed nicely under Garrett, if he could only stay healthy.


I do think that they absolutely screwed up Felix Jones. But, they screwed him up from the beginning under Wade. Sure, Garrett was the O-Coordinator, but the topic was about developing players as a Head Coach. Miles couldn’t stay healthy. I believe some of the injury issues fall on Garrett. His way of dealing with injured players is far more laid-back than Parcells’s way. But, I’m not going to say a coach can’t develop a guy that is injured all of the time.





YR

 

[CCBoy]

Spencer got good because he was cheaper at contract time and Rat like splinters in his butt.

That he even succeeded was due to the intervention of Rod Marinelli.

Now he has a shiny new contract and probably a return to mediocre.