Sturm Debunks Dak and Dunk

[aikemirv]

I do agree for the most part that rushing TD's bt the QB are of little importance. The hole that Dak ran through Sunday could have been run through by any QB in the NFL and QB sneaks mean nothing for a QB IMO but there are a few that are just on the ability of the QB and they get credit for those. Those in my opinion are the same as having a QB who can run to get a first down versus a QB that will find the open WR to get the first down. Both are good, one is better!

 

[Clove]

I'm not in those QB meetings. But I would bet my mortgage Dak is being told not to take unnecessary chances. Repeatedly. And he is doing better than most in this regard. And I will take the lack of negative plays by Prescott and the 12-2 record and be quite happy with it.

His mom would go off on him if he told her he threw an INT in practice. His mom put into his mind a long time ago, NO INTERCEPTIONS.

 

[AbeBeta]

That's data. The original Tweet didn't have relevant data.

I wasn't arguing that he was a dunk and dunker - only that the data you cited were flawed

 

[khiladi]

Dak's passing game is predicated off play-action point blank. He's already thrown well over 40 more passes off play-action then they ever did with the Red-Headed Genius when he was running the offense, with absolutely no feel for blending a running game with a passing game.

Even in 2014, when Romo finally had Linehan as a play-caller, they only used play-action 75 times total and they used it primarily in big yardage situations. But they did move up in usage that year, but even with Murray, if they were passing with him in the backfield they weren't threatening run, despite how many yards he was putting up.

5 of the INTs Romo threw in 2014 in the above stats were actually off play-action and I believe maybe 10 TDs. How they used play-action was totally different the first year, targeting big plays not efficiency.

Spin it any way you want, the passing games moves through Zeke and defenses are threatened by Zeke and LBs aren't getting deep, which is why the Middle is he prime target in this offense.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Dak is not Brees, Drew Brees does not have that skill, he is a great passer I don't think anyone would question that but in the end when you are down in the redzone the object is to put the ball in the endzone. Dak has that ability be it with his arm or legs. Why force a ball into a tight window with the chance of it getting picked, batted into the air, throwing incomplete as opposed to using the ability to run it in. It counts the same it is still 6 points and again it was the object to put the ball into the endzone. If you want to claim Brees, Romo, Rodgers or anyone else are better passers I will not disagree but for me in the end did you put it in the endzone did the team walk away with 6 points? Cowboys being 4th in the NFL in scoring indicates they are not having problems putting up points.

Also important...

One team is going to the playoffs and one isn't.

 

[Clove]

Just as all threads having to do with Dak. You have those who don't believe in Dak and want to Romo in, you have those who just want Romo in and then those who are solid behind Dak. I have supported Tony and should he be forced into action I will be pulling for him as much as I always have but for me the bottom line is the organization has made the change and I will support that choice. I can't promise he will take us to the SB but in all fairness I can't say Tony will either. There is no record in post season that suggest he will get us there so anyone claiming he will is guessing as much as those who think Dak can get it done

This is my point to. As much as I dislike Romo's play, I would be pulling for him if he were the QB and we were winning. I'm all about those wins baby.

 

[Doomsday101]

I do agree for the most part that rushing TD's bt the QB are of little importance. The hole that Dak ran through Sunday could have been run through by any QB in the NFL and QB sneaks mean nothing for a QB IMO but there are a few that are just on the ability of the QB and they get credit for those. Those in my opinion are the same as having a QB who can run to get a first down versus a QB that will find the open WR to get the first down. Both are good, one is better!

so his 6 mean less? score board does not seem to be as prejudice about points. It only shows that a TD was scored and that TD counted the same as any other TD. Which again is the object. Your right that hole was big enough anyone should have been able to score yet not all QB would tuck it and run to get the sure thing.

 

[Clove]

Dak's passing game is predicated off play-action point blank. He's already thrown well over 40 more passes off play-action then they ever did with the Red-Headed Genius when he was running the offense, with absolutely no feel for blending a running game with a passing game.

Even in 2014, when Romo finally had Linehan as a play-caller, they only used play-action 75 times total and they used it primarily in big yardage situations. But they did move up in usage that year, but even with Murray, if they were passing with him in the backfield they weren't threatening run, despite how many yards he was putting up.

Spin it any way you want, the passing games moves through Zeke and defenses are threatened by Zeke and LBs aren't getting deep, which is why the Middle is he prime target in this offense.

Call it what you want if that makes you sleep easy at night, we're 12-2 with Dak as QB. Last year with a strong armed QB, and a vet, and a young smart QB, we were 4-12. Insert Dak Prescott, we're close to doing great things.

 

[ufcrules1]

I'm not in those QB meetings. But I would bet my mortgage Dak is being told not to take unnecessary chances. Repeatedly. And he is doing better than most in this regard. And I will take the lack of negative plays by Prescott and the 12-2 record and be quite happy with it.

With this coaching staff? Don't bet on that. But Dak himself? There is something special about Dak and he doesn't take may unnecessary risks. Complete opposite from Romo. He is still a rookie so he will make some mistakes, but it feels like we are set for a long time with him. He is legit.

 

[ufcrules1]

Call it what you want if that makes you sleep easy at night, we're 12-2 with Dak as QB. Last year with a strong armed QB, and a vet, and a young smart QB, we were 4-12. Insert Dak Prescott, we're close to doing great things.

He even fades the poor coaching staff too. We had 1 win without Romo last year and 12 wins this year. Dak and Zeke baby.

 

[Doomsday101]

Also important...

One team is going to the playoffs and one isn't.

True again meaningless stats, Don't get me wrong Drew is a great QB he can put up a ton of yards he can get you a boat load of TD but none of that has guaranteed wins. Dak is still learning, he does not run at the 1st signs of trouble but will run especially in situation where he sees the yards in front of him and knows he can get that 1st down or TD to him that is what is important and will do it any way he can. As kid watching Stuabach play no one complained much about Roger taking off and no one ever complained when he ran it in for a TD yet today you can't just win you have to win a certain way or else the peanut gallery goes nuts

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

One of the most important tools of greatness is managing expectations. If the greatest negative about a rookie QB, that's one of the most efficient passers in the league, and I'd debate is actually quite a bit better than a busdriver (Try to find a QB within a yard of Dak's AYPA that's considered a busdriver), who is 3rd in the league in AYPA, and doesn't turn the ball over, is that he doesn't make enough plays 25+ yards downfield, then i'd say people probably aren't managing expectations.

I've seen Tom Brady go out and play games where half his passes are 3-5 yard pick routes, and everyone's slobbering all over him because he "won".

Not enough plays 25+ yards != dink and dunk. Look at Bradford, Wentz, Smith, none of them are even close to Dak's AYPA.

And I think everyone can agree that lack of "big plays" has led to his low INT number. How many of these games would we have lost if he threw an extra one? Would we be 12-2 right now if he threw 2-3 more picks this year trying to force the ball downfield? I'll take what's a given, and that's the most efficient offense in the league. Anything else is pure speculation.

And for all this love about the OL, which they deserve, and say "Dak's getting all this from the OL", then people need to start also acknowledging their RZ or TB area penalties against TB and Minn. Tyron hooked a guy on a TD pass which looked like an incredibly lazy attempt that you don't see often, but it absolutely was and i'm sure he'd tell you the same. But still, we came out 2-1 and just absolutely dominated the hottest defense in the league.

Managing expectations is precisely what I am doing. Nonetheless all of this is relative.

In terms of player development I have zero issue with Dak. I see him using the same commitment and work ethic that has gotten him this far to improve similar to what he has already done. Between that and his salary our future is bright.

In terms of how I expect the team to play in the playoffs in a few weeks it is a different story. They don't handicap but instead seek to exploit. You need big DT and talented DBs but you can scuttle this attack. We have seen the gameplan and most of the teams that fit that bill are in the NFC.

As for Brady vs Dak, I ask you what do you think Brady would take if teams down in and down out gave him single high DB looks? I keep on hearing that Dak takes what the defense is giving him but I don't really think that is true.

They all but dare him to attack downfield yet he throws about 1 deep ball every game. I don't think it is a stretch to think that Brady would capitalize on regular heavy boxes a lot more than that.

 

[NorthTexan95]

Are we 12-2 or 2-12? It's hard to tell from this thread.

 

[Clarkson]

10 hits is a discrete number of runs generated. The point differential in baseball are miniscule compared to most sports. In building a 25 and 40 man roster those differences are the difference between making the playoffs and not.

Kaepernick is better in the RZ than Prescott. I'm not going to waste my time basing overarching generalizations on that. It does impact our ability to score nonetheless which is the central argument of this thread besides dink and dunk.

Colin Kaepernick has thrown 27 passes in the red zone this year. That isn't even a sufficient sample size.
Dak has had 58 red zone plays. Kaep is at 27.
Wanna hazard a guess as to where we rank in red zone TD%? I'll help ya: 4th.
So yeah, Dak has really been a killer there. Man, if only he didn't handcuff our scoring!!!
Using red zone QB rating as the end-all, be-all to determine who good a QB is in the red zone is, again, a joke. And if you were actually as smart and fair as your claim, you'd acknowledge that.

 

[Direwolf63]

Perhaps I was not clear Bob, I did not say that there isn't any utility in the ability itself. Of course there is. I am saying when evaluating QBs, to me it is irrelevant to say, Drew Brees has 34 TDs, well Dak has 20 TDs but he has 6 rushing TDs, so he has 26 TDs. The Saints do not care that Drew Brees can't go and get a one yard QB TD draw on 1st down. They have running backs for that. Meanwhile, I do very much care that Dak can't throw the ball into coverage with zero help from a running game like Brees can. There is much utility in Brees passing TDs and very little in Dak's rushing TDs. I was not making any kind of reference to moving the chains on third down or anything like that. Plenty of value there.

Every QB has to maximize their strengths that they have. Brees does that. So does Dak. Many QB's cannot do that. See Mr. Ostweiler (sp.) for example.

It just so happens that their strengths differ. You love Bree's strengths, but you don't like Daks. You want the flash rather then the results.

 

[sean10mm]

I feel like Dallas fans can't put anything Dak is doing into proper context. Like, rookies just don't play like he does. I don't mean stats so much as just how he handles game situations. If you watch what Dak's doing at this stage of his career and aren't impressed I'm sort of just at a loss at this point. Rookies just don't execute pro style schemes in real time from like game 2 onward, regardless of how favorable the situation around them is. It's uncommon, it's downright special, but half the fan base is mad that we're not getting 2007 vintage Brady-to-Moss bombs 24/7.

And Dallas isn't using some unsustainable air raid gadget scheme like Chip Kelly in 2013 did with Foles, or Shanahan did with RG3 in 2012 having him run 120 times. They just dropped Dak into a pro style system and made him figure it out.

No, he doesn't see the field like Brady does, but Brady himself didn't do that in 2000-2001. But what Brady always had, and what Dak shows signs of, is the fine-tuned sense of how much risk to take on any given snap. That's an un-glamorous but unbelievably rare and valuable skill.

 

[Fletch]

Dak is a Freaking Pro Bowler as a conditional, 4th round pick. He's helped the Cowboys to a 12-2 record while staring down HOMEFIELD. And the problem is?

The problem is some fans trying to pick fly poop outta pepper.

 

[Kevinicus]

It is. When you think there is a better option at 12-2 then you are what they call complaining. Especially coming off a great game. I love how people on this board know more than Danny White and the dozens of NFLers who are saying Dak deserves to play. My comment was to someone saying he wasn't impressive. So called football Minds are laughable

So what stopped us the first two drives right down the field? Alleged dinking and dunking or penalties? If there is a different answer than penalties you're dense

Yeah...you just don't understand the meaning of words.

 

[erod]

Romo threw 5 TD's vs 7 INT's in the 4 games he played in 2015 and had a QB rating of 79.4 that year. That's bad QB play and can't be spun otherwise.

Please give us some stats to support your assertion that Dak is awful in the red zone. It's hard to be 12-2 if that were the case.

He played two games with a broken clavicle to try and save the season. Give me a break.

Dak is not good in the red zone. I'm hardly the first person to say it. Watch the games.

 

[Kevinicus]

Dak is a Freaking Pro Bowler as a conditional, 4th round pick. He's helped the Cowboys to a 12-2 record while staring down HOMEFIELD. And the problem is?

The problem is some fans trying to pick fly poop outta pepper.

The problem is he isn't the best option available to the team, and some of us want to win the Superbowl and are not looking backwards or willing to handicap postseason success because rookie!