Sturm talks interior line and draft

[burmafrd]

How many 6th or 7th rd players ever amount to good starters for good teams? One out of a hundred? would be curious to see the exact numbers. And just because someone started for a team frankly means what? Costa started for us.

Starting for the Raiders and starting for the Seahags - how could anyone ever try and claim that is anywhere near equivalency?

Now of course you get cases where a top player is imprisoned on a bad team- but those are fairly rare exceptions. Odds are huge that if you are starting for the raiders or jags then you will NOT be good enough to start for a team that is an actual playoff and sb contender.

our huge problem on the O line was that for years Jerruh really and truly believed you did not need to spend high draft picks to build a top line because it HAPPENED ONCE YEARS AGO.

Until the pick was handed in Jerruh was desperately working the phones to trade out of the pick we took Tyron on. Thing was he was such a top prospect at a position of extreme need that Jerruh very reluctantly bit the bullet. Pretty much the same with Fredbeard- and we had already traded down once there.

And we have used no other picks in the past three years on the O line. Think on that. Of course with our HORRENDOUS record of drafting O line after the first.....

 

[jobberone]

Not only this but they would flippantly make fun of those of us actually arguing to acquire actual NFL caliber talent at OL to allow romo to be effective

By sheer coincidence ( I am sure) they seem to be the same who agreed with FO
that the DL was going to be a strength last off season and that kiffin was still a great dc

Ok so who are these people who thought we had such a great OL? Or thought we were on the path to greatness along the OL with the likes of Tyrannosaur Costa, Nagy the Limper or the great acquisitions Mack and Nate? If you mean people who chose to wait and see if these players developed or not then include me. But I don't remember people jumping up and down with excitement over the OL who were castoffs, injured, and/or felt to be marginal or like Arkin someone who were higher risk (and most wouldn't have drafted him that early if at all). In fact most felt the OL was a weakness and needed vast improvement.

Spin it baby! Then pat yourselves on the back for your great wisdom and pass out the likes.

 

[jobberone]

If he learned anything from that, why did he fail to address the DL last offseason with even a single addition? Not even our UDFA class contained a defensive lineman.

He didn't learn a thing. Neither did his son.

Bullflop. You, he, them, and everyone else had no absolute knowledge Ware would have a down year, Ratliff would roll over and just quit, Spencer would play one down or series or whatever it was, Bass would go down, Crawford would go down.......yada, . This is more spin from the 'Told You So Gang'. There were holes to fill everywhere.

When you're negative about everything then its 100% predictable you're going to be right on this and that.

 

[jterrell]

various.

1st. Big fan of Sturm.

All that said this is a great example of his greatest strengths and biggest weaknesses.

The breakdowns of his OGs here are very useful as we prepare for the draft in earnest.
Great stuff and love his series here.

BUT the rest of the article is just pithy crap. Yes we ran the ball great in 2010. We ran the ball for crap in 2011 with the same OL from 2010.
Saying "they all got old at once" is a bit of opinion based splooge. It's meat to fill cracks in an overall argument that never fully congeal towards anything.
The pff snap counts are just wasted space.
They dont paint any picture and merely serve to promote pff and show us Sturm has access to those numbers.
PFF rated players by position... why not provide those ratings instead of snap counts???
Is it because they show the unimpressive spares plugged in to the OL in 2012 actually were a slight improvement over 2011?? Guess we'll never really know.

I think it is more than fair to say trying to get by with Costa, Nagy, Kowalski was heinously fail.
But that 2012 decision is well past. Should we also rehash how dumb it was to draft RW31 over Ed Reed??
Or we can do the Goose move and go back to Jimmy/Jerry talk?
After all it is the off-season and who cares about relevance or pertinence to 2014....

If the point is we need to consider an OG in this draft... then duh.
We just cut our only interior back up with any experience at all.
The grade on the guys he lists is between 2 and 4.
Presumably he is arguing we should grab an OG in there.
Again, fairly smart way to proceed given what we lack in depth and the nefarious nature of Leary/Mack.

But we could have had 2 sentences saying just that and a breakdown.

 

[jobberone]

various.

1st. Big fan of Sturm.

All that said this is a great example of his greatest strengths and biggest weaknesses.

The breakdowns of his OGs here are very useful as we prepare for the draft in earnest.
Great stuff and love his series here.

BUT the rest of the article is just pithy crap. Yes we ran the ball great in 2010. We ran the ball for crap in 2011 with the same OL from 2010.
Saying "they all got old at once" is a bit of opinion based splooge. It's meat to fill cracks in an overall argument that never fully congeal towards anything.
The pff snap counts are just wasted space.
They dont paint any picture and merely serve to promote pff and show us Sturm has access to those numbers.
PFF rated players by position... why not provide those ratings instead of snap counts???
Is it because they show the unimpressive spares plugged in to the OL in 2012 actually were a slight improvement over 2011?? Guess we'll never really know.

I think it is more than fair to say trying to get by with Costa, Nagy, Kowalski was heinously fail.
But that 2012 decision is well past. Should we also rehash how dumb it was to draft RW31 over Ed Reed??
Or we can do the Goose move and go back to Jimmy/Jerry talk?
After all it is the off-season and who cares about relevance or pertinence to 2014....

If the point is we need to consider an OG in this draft... then duh.
We just cut our only interior back up with any experience at all.
The grade on the guys he lists is between 2 and 4.
Presumably he is arguing we should grab an OG in there.
Again, fairly smart way to proceed given what we lack in depth and the nefarious nature of Leary/Mack.

But we could have had 2 sentences saying just that and a breakdown.

Wow, game, set and match.

Yeah we screwed up on the OL. Lot's of other places, too. Who would have thought an 8-8 team had problems acquiring and keeping talent?

 

[jterrell]

Bullflop. You, he, them, and everyone else had no absolute knowledge Ware would have a down year, Ratliff would roll over and just quit, Spencer would play one down or series or whatever it was, Bass would go down, Crawford would go down.......yada, . This is more spin from the 'Told You So Gang'. There were holes to fill everywhere.

When you're negative about everything then its 100% predictable you're going to be right on this and that.

Pointless arguing with people who refuse to use any realistic scope for discussions.
There are always going to be people who think a good GM goes 3-13 to 13-3 in a single off-season.
Others who use average performance (and good grief could anyone be more average than this Garrett led Cowboys team) to label us the "worst" this and that.

The it's all about the beef in the trenches crew is led full-force by Sturm who ironically idolizes a team that has won its Super Bowl base don hall of fame skill position payers with mostly flotsam in the trenches.

End of the day you arr correct. People who say enough will find some thread to stand on and cheer about no matter how many other ideas they fielded were completely debunked.
About 95% of the human race feels it is smarter than it is.
On this forum and in the realm of sports talk that is about 99%.
No one has made a name in sports talk being humble.

 

[pgreptom]

I don't know what his point is. Frederick, Smith = two first round investments. Free was a 4th. Leary was an UDFA..... Bern was a FA. That's an investment and I'd say this team learned from the Costa, Nagy experiment.

 

[jobberone]

I don't know what his point is. Frederick, Smith = two first round investments. Free was a 4th. Leary was an UDFA..... Bern was a FA. That's an investment and I'd say this team learned from the Costa, Nagy experiment.

I think the team put itself in a hole long ago and has had to cut corners to field good teams compounding the problems with poor drafting and strategic planning for immediate, short term, and long term results.

 

[jterrell]

I don't know what his point is. Frederick, Smith = two first round investments. Free was a 4th. Leary was an UDFA..... Bern was a FA. That's an investment and I'd say this team learned from the Costa, Nagy experiment.

In 2007 about 50 picks before Doug Free the Cowboys chose James Marten out of the then best OL producing college in football, BC.
In 2009 we selected Brewster in the top half of round 3.

If you want to know why the 2012 OL failed on the interior look at those completely busted picks. Round 3 OGs should be plus starters not bounced from league failures.

When you busts picks like that back to back at one position you will need to go pay for a free agent.

 

[pgreptom]

In 2007 about 50 picks before Doug Free the Cowboys chose James Marten out of the then best OL producing college in football, BC.
In 2009 we selected Brewster in the top half of round 3.

If you want to know why the 2012 OL failed on the interior look at those completely busted picks. Round 3 OGs should be plus starters not bounced from league failures.

When you busts picks like that back to back at one position you will need to go pay for a free agent.

Martin was a tackle, was he not? Not a guard. I mean, why is he attacking the offensive line specifically? We've had tons of busts. Bobby Carpenter, Mike Jenkins, Jason Williams, James Marten, Bennett, Fasano....

The list goes on and on.

 

[Idgit]

oh just give up why don't you? People are laughing AT you and not with you. You again and again defended the status quo at that time. And guess what? They are ALL Gone and none of them are going to amount to anything; and you cannot admit that you did not see it.

By 'people' you mean 'four teenage guys on the internet.' I can live with that.

I didn't defend the status quo. I said you were complaining about a team that was in the process of addressing the problem, and that you should just settle down and see how it turns out, and I was exactly right. They built from the outside in, spending premium picks and FA dollars on the OT--like everybody else does--and developing mid-to-low round picks and value free agents at the OGs--because that's relatively easy to do. The presence of role players like Nagy and Kowalski on the roster had nothing to do with it. Those types of players are in development on every single team in the NFL. Nobody said any of them were going to be pro bowlers. We just wanted you guys to stop complaining about nothing, which you did not do.

If I were as condescending as you try to be while being as wrong as you clearly were, I'd probably not be dispensing the bad free advice on the internet, burm. It's not like the post history isn't available out there if you bother to look.

 

[Idgit]

You can file that alongside the excuses for why the also talentless Cory Procter took up space for as long as he did.

"Well the coaches must see SOMETHING they like and they're a lot SMARTER than YOU!"

Only nobody said Phil Costa would be a great Center. The argument was that he's capable of giving you starters' snaps at a position of need when we had more important places to be resources. And that was right.

What they're doing here, now, is changing the goal posts and arguing against stories they made up in their heads because the actual arguments we had at the time make it pretty clear they were wrong to begin with.
I don't remember the Great Cory Proctor debates, but I'll believe you if you say they happened.

 

[Risen Star]

Bullflop. You, he, them, and everyone else had no absolute knowledge Ware would have a down year, Ratliff would roll over and just quit, Spencer would play one down or series or whatever it was, Bass would go down, Crawford would go down.......yada, . This is more spin from the 'Told You So Gang'. There were holes to fill everywhere.

When you're negative about everything then its 100% predictable you're going to be right on this and that.

Then I made another of my amazingly accurate guesses last year when I told you the DL was in sorry shape.

The writing was on the wall. You just had to be able to read it and willing to accept it.

 

[Alexander]

Then I made another of my amazingly accurate guesses last year when I told you the DL was in sorry shape.

Well, maybe if you said you were not guessing you would get people's attention better.

 

[jobberone]

Then I made another of my amazingly accurate guesses last year when I told you the DL was in sorry shape.

The writing was on the wall. You just had to be able to read it and willing to accept it.

Well, if the writing was on the wall then it's not an accomplishment to predict it. Have some humble pie. You look hungry.

 

[Death Star]

This is stupid. Costa was released by the Cowboys on March 7 and was signed by the Colts on March 13. He was a FA for less than a week. Now have the Colts shown they know how to assemble a talented roster?

Just because they didn't want to pay him to back up a guy that has pro bowl talent does not mean he sucks. You would think that after he was signed so quickly you guys would have enough sense to shut up. It makes your position look pretty bad.

Hahahaha what? The Colts are terrible at assembling a talented roster. They basically "Luck" their way into two generational quarterbacks and then turn around and surround them with garbage. We're talking about the team that gave up a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson for God's sake. They had one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time in Peyton Manning for over a decade and he had to drag that team kicking and screaming to just one Super Bowl win. Against the Rex Grossman-led Bears.

"Know how to assemble a talented roster." Good lord.

 

[Risen Star]

Well, if the writing was on the wall then it's not an accomplishment to predict it. Have some humble pie. You look hungry.

Apparently it was since a lot of people, including yourself, got it wrong.

Ware was breaking down physically, Ratliff wasn't a productive player in years, Spencer was coming off a major injury. There wasn't a quality proven player under the age of 29 on the entire DL roster. This didn't take a GM of the ages to see it. It just required something more than an oil man and his son.

 

[Risen Star]

Basically I'm not going to admit to being wrong when I was right simply to make others feel better about being wrong.

Learn something from it. Or just copy my posts.

 

[RS12]

Their hope is that one day, at some point in the future, one of these multitudes will become a serviceable player and then they will be in here preening and cooing about how they always knew it and had faith while we are morons, all the while ignoring all the other busted projects

But that is their MO

Not to mention 31 other teams scouting departments.

 

[RS12]

Bullflop. You, he, them, and everyone else had no absolute knowledge Ware would have a down year, Ratliff would roll over and just quit, Spencer would play one down or series or whatever it was, Bass would go down, Crawford would go down.......yada, . This is more spin from the 'Told You So Gang'. There were holes to fill everywhere.

When you're negative about everything then its 100% predictable you're going to be right on this and that.

Alot of us thought the DL was aging. declining, injury prone, and not addressing it was foolish. Problem was the OL was an even bigger dumpster fire.