Sturm's Morning After: Cowboys have a coaching mess; Garrett ignores reality of the underdog

Discussion in 'Overtime Zone' started by Alexander, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Kevinicus

    Kevinicus Well-Known Member

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    Dez didn't have his hands where he wanted because he used one to defend Sherman from getting the INT. It's hard to tell from these stills, but that is why his right hand is so far away from the left.
     
  2. Kevinicus

    Kevinicus Well-Known Member

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    No, it felt like two inept offenses...and one good defense. Most of Seattle's failures seemed to be simply poor throws by Wilson.
     
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  3. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    This post should be rated T for graphically detailed violence. Blood has been spilt in ample quantities.
     
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  4. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    Interesting take. I have to say that I just disagree. We did a good job keeping Wilson in the pocket and closing it around him, for the most part. We kept contain. We took the ball away from him. We limited them to a lot of 3 and outs. Covered Graham well, for the most part. Their players said as much, after the game, too.

    For their part, they played good defense, as well. Because they've got one of the better defenses in the league, and they got 5-6 players back over their bye.

    I thought it was a really good game last week. I know I"m pretty much alone in that, but whatever. It was.
     
  5. Roadtrip635

    Roadtrip635 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    :lmao2:
     
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  6. Sydla

    Sydla Well-Known Member

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    A lot these can also be attributed to poor coaching though. I know it's shocking but often times teams that aren't well coached make lots of mental errors, turn the ball over, make numerous special teams gaffes, fail to execute, etc. That can be a sign of inadequate or not great coaching.

    And sometimes, when a team subtracts a key player, the mediocrity of the coaching becomes amplified because the start player or players often cover up for the shortcomings of the staff.
     
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  7. Kevinicus

    Kevinicus Well-Known Member

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    Again, you say we limited them to these things, and on a few occasions we did, but I felt for the most part, when Seattle failed to convert it was usually a poor throw or a drop more than anything Dallas did. A very poor offense and OL gave up no sacks, and put up 100 yards more than Dallas' did. Dallas held the run in check, but I thought they were less than impressive defending the pass (outside of Hardy's INT).
     
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  8. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    I just don't see it that way. Marinelli talked about 'the well' last week, and that's what we did. Kept contain and constricted around Russell and made it tough for him to make plays. Wilson had 210 yards, and they had 13 points. That's not just him throwing the ball poorly.

    I'd have to see the plays you're referring to when you say it was 'usually a poor throw or a drop,' though. I don't think it usually was. I think we just played good defense again.
     
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    It's not shocking. You just have to substantiate that it's happening in Dallas. The ST problems I've said multiple times I do think are a coaching problem, so let's set that aside since it's an area where we agree.

    These other things can definitely be signs of inadequate coaching. They can also have other causes. I'd submit that the other causes are personnel related. That it's Russell not holding containment in ATL. That it's Church getting a meaningless hold on a turnover v. the Giants. That it's Patmon or Claiborne dropping passes that hit them in the hands against the Falcons and the Saints. And I don't think it's reasonable to expect the coaches to be responsible for passes bouncing off of players' hands. Or for rookie 5th rounders starting before they're ready because your top three preferred options are hobbled or unavailable. Or for Linehan to coach a 90 start veteran QB to not miss wide open WRs with wounded ducks that 'just came out funny' or to not throw into double coverage to a guy who's not open on first down in a drive where we need points. But maybe that's just me.
     
  10. Kevinicus

    Kevinicus Well-Known Member

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    Start with the 3rd downs that they failed to convert on. One would be where the WR dropped a pass in his hands with Carr just standing there. And again, you have to remember, this was a poor offense Dallas faced. Teams averaged over 4 sacks a game against them. Dallas got 0, and didn't seem to have much pressure most of the time.
     
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  11. Sydla

    Sydla Well-Known Member

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    It's not reasonable to hold the coaches responsible for Patmon dropping an interception. Or one random hold by Church. Or one guy randomly not holding contain.

    But when it's week after week of mistakes. When Church is making numerous mistakes almost every week. When it's guys running lazy routes almost every week. When it's guys missing their assignments every week............. Don't act like it's just a random mistake here or a random mistake there. This team is making numerous mistakes each week, making boneheaded plays each week, showing lack of fundamentals at times each week.

    At some point, when the problems continue to persist, it's insane to keep blaming the players and playing the woe is me card for the coaching staff.
     
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  12. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    The thing is, you guys might say these things are going on, but that doesn't mean they're going on. What are the numerous mistakes Church is making? The blown coverage on the TD that Jeff Spicolli caught last week? What? Lazy routes almost every week? That's a new one for me. Who's running the lazy routes?

    Otherwise, all I hear is unhappy fans claiming numerous mistakes and poor fundamentals without much support. Hard to give that much credit.

    At least Broaddus takes the time to point out the plays he thinks the QB is blowing for us.
     
  13. Sydla

    Sydla Well-Known Member

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    So wait? Are you claiming that we aren't seeing a lot of mistakes (bad penalties, missed tackles, missed opportunities, dumb decisions, etc) each week? So other than the QB, the rest of the team has played really well? LOL. Broaddus has pointed out quite a few times poor routes Williams has run for example, including against the Giants that resulted in that DRC pick and score.

    You set up strange strawman arguments. I don't think one person who has criticized Garrett or this staff has tried to argue that Weeden or Cassel has been playing well only to be let down by bad coaching. So the Broaddus comment is peculiar because says something that no one has really tried to argue. Of course we are suffering at the hands of poor QB play. But it's also compounded by mediocre coaching. No one has said this team needed to win 4 of the last 5. What people have said is that while the QB play has been poor when you lose 5 games in a row, even with a backup, the coaching staff has to bear a big heap of responsibility themselves as well.
     
  14. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    Ok, so I went and did the work. There were 4 drives that ended on 3rd downs. The first was good man coverage by Carr, a bad Wilson pass that the WR got a hand on and dropped. The next was good coverage by Jones on a contested pass to Graham that was in the catch radius but behind him, but again, good coverage on a contested play. The third third down was a play where we'd flushed Wilson and he threw deep down the sideline to Graham who again couldn't make what would have been a tremendous pass. The fourth was the Hardy pick.

    So, yeah, overall, I'd say we were playing good enough defense to make it hard on Wilson, and he couldn't convert as a result.
     
  15. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    Sigh. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be about what I"m claiming. If *you're* the one claiming you're seeing mental errors or sloppy routes or whatever, let em know. Who, when, where, what game? I'll even go look up the play if you ever provide one. But don't just give me oblique references to things you think you heard Broaddus say at some point. I can't do anything with that.

    Similarly, if my arguments are 'straw men' tell me which ones. My argument is that the problem is *not* coaching, it's QB play. Which is why I'm providing context where the plays are there, the execution from the other players is there, and the QB is just not getting it done. If you want to make a case that it's both QB play and coaching, then show some shred of evidence somewhere that there's a coaching liability somewhere. My saying there's a specific cause for the problem and then showing what I think it is is not setting up a straw man in any sense of the word.

    And why can't a team lose 5 games in a row for no other reason than they have insufficient personnel? I don't get that. If you can point to the personnel, and point to the plays and point to the injuries and the suspensions and the circumstances that have lead to the problem, why can't that be a simple enough explanation for what's gone wrong? Do you really believe it's not possible to lose 5 close NFL games (4, really) just because your talent isn't quite good enough?
     
  16. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    Cassell two weeks ago kept a drive alive with a sideline pass, where he had to break the sideline, followed by the TD to Street on another play that same drive, where he kept the play alive.

    Cassell gets blame for poor play, but that TD was an example where it was all him making something happen.
     
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  17. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    The INT by Cromartie, that was an awful route by Williams. It was also on a 2nd and nine, after Dallas predictably ran. It was also one where Dallaa didn't even show a possibility of run. It was also one where Dallas was trying to pick up a significant amount of yardage on one of their typical routes, which requires timing with the WRs and reps.

    Cromartie read that from the very beginning for a reason..

    The very next series, where Cassell threw another INT. It was second and 7, after they ran again. I wouldn't be surprised if their was no threat of the run either considering our lack of play action. Both throws that series were long plays attacking deep left.

    Cassell isn't choosing the plays after three or four weeks in Dallas... It's not like our passing game isn't limited in where and how we attack..
     
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  18. GimmeTheBall!

    GimmeTheBall! Junior College Transfer

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    You like channeled mein thots but with beter words and stuff. I wishyou would repesent me here and in court.
     
  19. lothos05

    lothos05 Active Member

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    Thank you, Idgit. I'm far from an expert but these plays seem well-designed. It just seems that one missed block or read is what is really hurting the team. I can live with Collins missing Williams because he's going to get better and doubt that he misses next time. Those two pass plays put a pit in my stomach because if Romo's in there, Dez's is a TD and Beasley goes for a long gain.
     
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  20. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

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    cool story bro.. Garret wasnt throwing three picks or checking down to the running back for three strait games.
     

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