Sturm's Morning After: Cowboys have a coaching mess; Garrett ignores reality of the underdog

Discussion in 'Overtime Zone' started by Alexander, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Fuzzee

    Fuzzee Bigdog24

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    One example of many franchise low stats produced under Jason Garrett....

    Dallas vs Detroit
    It’s the largest blown lead in Cowboys franchise history, and it’s tied for the second-largest blown fourth-quarter lead (13). The only time the Cowboys blew a larger fourth-quarter lead was in Week 1 of this season, when they led the New York Jets by 14 in the final quarter.

    And the excuses keep coming.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
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  2. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    It wouldn't be hard to come to grips with at all, actually. If there were evidence of bad coaching, I'd be among the first to call it what it is.

    But just casually watching the games ought to tell you where this team's limitations have been. These are personnel limitations, brought about by injuries to our very best players and to early suspensions of some of our best defenders. It's pretty obvious. I don't see the point of looking elsewhere for the leak when there's a broken pipe flooding my living room that i can see with my own eyes.
     
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  3. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    And Parcels was himself a really good coach. I didn't intend to knock him. Sometimes good coaches coach teams with bad or pretty mediocre records. There are a lot of variables in an NFL season.
     
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  4. DandyDon52

    DandyDon52 Well-Known Member

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    same as he is with kellen moore !
     
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  5. ActualCowboysFan

    ActualCowboysFan Well-Known Member

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    They're situations are exactly the same. Except for everything
     
  6. DandyDon52

    DandyDon52 Well-Known Member

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    Never lol , they like him so he will always be beyond any blame for anything.
    Anything good, and garret did it, anything bad, it is jerry.
    Like saying he has built this team, he didnt build it the jones boys did, with help from clay and JG and marinelli and others.
    They work as a group, with the jones having final say.

    Garrett wanted to keep murray, but it was not up to him, he had little say in that , or murray would be here.
    So that and some other things I dont blame JG for.
    Ironically I think many JG fans were ok or for letting murray walk, saying he wasnt worth the money, which goes against what their
    coach wanted.

    I dont think JG is a good coach, he is just avg, but the problems this year and some in past are not all his fault.
    Funny thing is whisenhunt and miami coach had losing streaks and got fired , JG has losing streak, and his job is secure .

    But it isnt all his fault, the jones boys have to be blamed too. I think they procure most of the players , with JG having little input or say,
    and he has to work with what they give him.
    Then if JG didnt want or like the player, he doesnt see much action, like CM, possibly escobar, McF before randle injury and acting up etc.
    I think JG had little say about dez playing the last game, if jones boys want them in the game, then they are in.

    It is a mess, and it all leads back to the jones boys.
     
  7. CowboysFaninHouston

    CowboysFaninHouston CowboysFaninDC

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    I agree. there are very few coaches in NFL history that could elevate the team above their talent and without talent they were average coaches....billicheck is one of the few whose teams perform above their talent although he has talent in specific areas and has depth in critical positions...he is a visionary....outside of him, I can't see anybody else in current NFL like that.....

    with that said, garrett, linehan and marinelli have to be better. specifically in the 4th...that's been our downfall. we are good for 3 quarters and fall apart in the 4th, the most important quarter....
     
  8. CowboysFaninHouston

    CowboysFaninHouston CowboysFaninDC

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    I think there are extremes on both camps. some garrett haters are at a extreme that he can't even walk or eat right...there are garrett supporters at the other extreme (perhaps in response to each other). most are in the middle.

    cowboys are a unique situation...with Jerry heavily involved and having had direct hand in many things...so JG wanted Muray...of course, a proven RB that had 1800 yards and fit his offense...but Gm has to manage the cap and paying for a RB in this day and age is risky.....

    the other aspect for all us fans to think is are we as talented as we think we are. its been painfully obvious that there is a huge talent gap in some positions and that the scheme and the top talent has covered up for it for a while. we have seen how limited Williams is when dez is not there and he has had to step in the #1 role. he is at best a #3 or #4 WR. street has disappeard and Beasley was a one trick pony that can't perform any longer....and weeden sucks...I mean truly sucks....and cassell reminds me of noodle arm Brad Johnson.

    we had invested our resources (money, draft picks) into certain positions...we know Romo is an elite QB and helps cover up warts.....with im out, those warts are evident for everyone to see. some blame garrett for this....they can if they want to...but if you invest $11M in a De and 100 Mill in a QB, then you run short in other areas.

    one thing that is evident now, is that our drafts outside of first round have been awful. we have hit our first round picks out of the park. but second round has been 50/50....3rd round outside of murray has be down right awful and when was the last time we had a 4th-7th round pick making an impact on this team.
     
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    It's been a bad run. The most frustrating thing is, in 4 of the 5 games, we've been so close. Just a play or a penalty or a blown call or a whatever has been the difference between the win and the loss. The offense was completely toothless against both NE and SEA, but the defense has really come around. The OL is finally playing really well. We've got the role players, and now we've got Dez back, too. If we could just get the ST units to come together, block a bit better for the returner, get a returner back there who actually wants to be there, and cover our own damn kicks, I'd feel pretty good for when Tony gets back.

    Was I the only one that thought that SEA team looked to be back in stride this week? That game felt like a defensive slug-fest. As opposed to two teams who were inept offensively. We're getting closer. We're just running out of time about as quickly as we're improving.

    Gotta win at least one of these next two. Preferably both of them, and preferably with a win v. PHI if we only get one. But even 3-6 with 7 to go gives us a shot of getting in at 8-8 if Tony can manage 5-2 down the stretch. That's a tall order, but not unheard of. 6-1 is possible, even, if we're firing on all cylinders. Good teams have done better than that to close out seasons before, anyway.
     
  10. DandyDon52

    DandyDon52 Well-Known Member

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    I agree on the draft picks, after 1st round they are mostly duds or low impact, like street etc.
    This last game our big money WR was back, and he didnt do anything either, so that says maybe you shouldnt come down on the other wr either?

    And ON the QB's, I watch the wr take off on their routes, and by the time the qb needs to throw, they havent even looked back yet , so he cant throw it.
    The routes are too deep and take too long. It is ok to have one guy run long route, but the other 2 should be shorter and turn around quickly,
    and maybe even come back to QB, or ad lib to get open.
    But they dont do that,
    If we could see what cassel sees, which on some plays they show that, there is no one to throw to and they are all far away and over by sideline.

    Sometimes it is cassels fault as he doesnt look off the safety and just stares down the guy he is throwing to.
    But if they changed the routes, it would have helped him and weeden.

    The routes and play design are on JG and linny, so I blame them for that, and also the formations and lack of innovation in formations, motion, and play design.

    Guys like weeden and cassel need to be able to throw quickly, and JG and linehan have not made that easy for them.
    In fact they have made it very hard for them, aside from some of the checkdowns to RB or TE.

    The one thing I have noticed about cassel is he is mobile, but tends to not move in pocket, he doesnt move side to side to but time , or up, and just throws when he feels pressure and if he just moved he could buy more time easily.
    So I have to think he is not being coached properly in practice.
     
  11. DandyDon52

    DandyDon52 Well-Known Member

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    Here is Dez, ball right thru his hands, last year this would be a td!
    Cassel delivered a good ball here, and notice dez never closes his hands on the ball.
    He is out of shape , out of practice and he has his payday, so I wonder how much help he is actually going to be.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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  13. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    1. The winning seasons can be attributed to offensive performance or Romo? Apparently, the offense can't do anything right now because Romo isn't playing. Based on your logic, Jason has made all sorts of personnel moves that made this team much more talented. Yet, Jason performed better with all these abysmal roster moves Wade allegedly made and gets credit for, including guys like Roy Williams and Felix Jones and Kitna as QB, but he can't win with his own talented roster that proves his superiority to Wade?

    Did I get that woeful logic right?

    2. I mean it's not like Wade specifically said he wanted Chris Johnson on Hard Knocks, while Jerry asked Jason and they wanted Felix. Oh, but it was like that. It's also not like Wade wanted Mike Solari as OL coach, who coached a zone scheme, while Garrett got Houck, the same guy he coached with in Miami and with the Cowboys when he was here, he also preferred a man scheme, with big hefty linemen. Oh, but it was like that. But I guess when Dallas was drafting flop OL all those years, it was because of Wade's decision of wanting a zone-blocking coach and had nothing to do with Garrett's decision of Houck, who only left when he retired, meaning Houck was still there even after Wade left... Did I get more of your woeful logic right?

    I mean how many years did we waste when Garrett was OC with that shoddy OL that Garrett homers use to blame as one of the reasons for his lack of success, that Garrett supposedly had no part of, despite the above points, only for Jerry to bring in Callahan to implement a zone-blocking scheme with quicker and more agile linemen. That same guy who Jerry was then set on having Garrett stripped of his play-calling duties for?

    3. What part of stats don't you understand? Offensive performance equates to yards, not points. The amount of yards one racks up doesn't have any bearing on win-loss record. When we look at 13-3, when Tony Sparano was baby-sitting Garrett, they were 2nd in points, but 13th in points allowed. In 2008, when Jason Garrett got full control of the offense, the guy dropped from 2nd in points, to 18. That is a whopping 16 teams in ranking, despite essentially having the same team and roster, including Romo. And the defense, was 20th in points allowed. AND GUESS WHAT? BRIAN STEWART was the defense coordinator.

    2009, the Cowboys went to 14th in points WHILE THE DALLAS DEFENSE, when Wade took the play-calling away from Brian Stewart was SECOND in points allowed. So Dallas first play-off win in twenty years was because the defense coached by Wade was playing lights out, while Garrett kept waffling trying to score in the red-zone.

    If Romo didn't have escapability, then you can be sure that the yardage gained, let alone red-zone scoring would have been dramatically reduced. Basically what your praising Garrett's play-calling for, is nothing but defenses playing deep coverage not giving up the big play, allowing Dallas to flounder when the field shortened.

    When you actually look at 2010, the year Wade got fired, despite being 7th in terms of points allowed, during the first 8 games with Garrett as coach, the OFFENSE LED BY GARRETT turned the ball over a whopping 19 TIMES. 19 times in 8 games. 5 out of 8 games, the team couldn't even brak 50 yards rushing. Against the Redskins, Garrett could only put up 7 points and gave 7 to the Redskins, after calling a bomb on a 4th down, right before the half , having only 80 yards to go, with Romo having to check-down to Choice, who then fumbled it. I guess that was Wade's fault...

    And the Dallas defense generated 10 turnovers. So the offense was putting that much pressure on the defense. Even the game against the Giants, when Wade's defense let close to 500 yards of total offense by the Giants, they created 5 TOs. And that offense managed a whopping less than 300 yards of total offense.

    Your stats don't support what you claim they support. What that means is when the team allegedly quite on Wade, the offense kept turning the ball over putting tremendous pressure on the defense.

    4. And you claim Wade's record has been woeful, where-ever he went, how does coaching a Buffalo team to the play-offs with scrubs like Flutie and Johnson and a meddling FO prove his ineptness?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
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  14. CowboyGil

    CowboyGil Well-Known Member

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    I understand why they didn't take any chances against probably the best secondary in the league after the performance Cassel had against a horrible Giants secondary. They probably should've taken more, but I understand.
     
  15. Roadtrip635

    Roadtrip635 Well-Known Member

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    If this were any other team in the NFL and considering Garrett's track record with the team, it is highly doubtful that JG would still be a head coach. I believe he would also be on his second or third gig by now and not as a HC. He's enjoying a longevity he didn't deserve, too many years and too many excuses.
     
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  16. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    He is just like Marvin Lewis so far. Don't know if it should take ten-thirteen years for a coach to "break out" but it looks like that is the boat Jerry Jones is in.
     
  17. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    The Garrett jock riders (all 5 of them left) are not going to like these type of comments bro......prepare for incoming
     
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  18. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    Man, I wonder how other teams win games with backup QBs, must be black magic or vodoo at work

    Maybe the head coach should be held responsible for not having a competent backup on the roster......yea, crazy idea to even suggest a head coach is responsible for the performance of the team.....what was I thinking
     
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  19. Idgit

    Idgit Riding the Red Rocket Staff Member

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    Not at all. You either have a quality backup--which is almost nobody--or you play better around them at all other positions. What you don't do is play poor defense, or not get any takeaways at all, give up ST scores, have thoughtless penalties take away possessions or put your bad QBs in 2nd or 3rd and 20s. That sort of stuff. It's no great mystery.

    Even with all of that, we've had good opportunities to win 4 of these 5 games.

    As for the competent backup, who you got? Who should we have signed that we didn't who was competent and wanted to sit behind Tony for a while? Or are we spending a top pick on a guy? Should have taken Derek Carr over Zack Martin maybe? In retrospect, that looks brilliant. Last year, it would have been a big mistake. What changed? The decision making? Or the circumstances? Come on, be honest, now.
     
  20. PAINFROMUKRAINE

    PAINFROMUKRAINE Well-Known Member

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    This proves even more that JG has some very big blackmail material on Jerry and Family. Nice information and analysis. The Truth always hurts. JG is the "Teflon Don" of Texas.
     
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