Texas and OU have expressed interest in joining SEC

[jterrell]

That’s a sensible solution. OK St, Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor to PAC 12.

And I’d look for Kansas, Iowa St to go to Big 10. K St who knows and W Virginia on their own , possibly ACC.

Yup. KST probably one who gets most roughly done and has to go American.
Other targets seem very good fits as described.

This makes a ton of sense IF the other 3 Confs want to re-write contracts and extent grant of rights now.
Those confs could force incoming schools to take half pay outs for 3 years or some such.

 

[CouchCoach]

Agreed. Well said!

Faggies want no part of Whorns. Fans might want it is correct.

Do you think the Commissioner cares what the school wants, it's all about the fans and the money.

Arkansas had a study done before they made the move to the SEC that ended up with focus groups and a perceptual. They had already assumed the football program would take a beating in recruiting once they pulled out of Texas but the money was hard to ignore.

The study surprised them because it was overwhelming in favor of moving up in class to the SEC, they would simply prefer their team to play Bama, Auburn, LSU and Ole Miss to the SWC, which is really about all the Big 12 ever became. They would miss Texas but Bama and LSU would replace that. Now, they get all of them.

You can bet the best thing TCU has going for them is that they play in DFW as far as the Pac 12 is concerned. 5th ranked market and in the Central Time Zone, makes a lot of unhappy AD's and football HC's happier. They would span 3 time zones.

 

[jterrell]

If you are the Pac 12, you going to pick a school in Lubbock to play USC and Oregon or one in the 5th largest market in the country? And a team consistently ranked higher in the rankings than Tech. The Pac 12 isn't interested in a footprint in a small market when they get into the 5th market. LA, DAL, SF, SEA, DEN and PHO is a nice footprint for sponsors.

The perception would be that TCU is playing up when they face off against OR, USC, WA as opposed to when they play OU or OSU. The games get a bigger stage because the fans were used to the OU and OSU and even Texas. It is big name ball like Notre Dame.

Texas Tech has a larger football and basketball stadium than many PAC 12 schools and made more money last year.
They also have top 20 nationally basketball and baseball, track and field teams. And an annual enrollment of 50K students.

But more to the point they have a larger footprint in DFW than TCU which is your stated reasoning for choosing TCU.
USC or UCLA would far prefer playing Texas Tech at Jerry World than visiting the TCU campus out in Ft Worth.

Culturally, Tech aligns nicely with the Arizona schools.

 

[Diehardblues]

Do you think the Commissioner cares what the school wants, it's all about the fans and the money.

Arkansas had a study done before they made the move to the SEC that ended up with focus groups and a perceptual. They had already assumed the football program would take a beating in recruiting once they pulled out of Texas but the money was hard to ignore.

The study surprised them because it was overwhelming in favor of moving up in class to the SEC, they would simply prefer their team to play Bama, Auburn, LSU and Ole Miss to the SWC, which is really about all the Big 12 ever became. They would miss Texas but Bama and LSU would replace that. Now, they get all of them.

You can bet the best thing TCU has going for them is that they play in DFW as far as the Pac 12 is concerned. 5th ranked market and in the Central Time Zone, makes a lot of unhappy AD's and football HC's happier. They would span 3 time zones.

I guess it depends on whose behalf you’re speaking for.

As for the fans if they fall on winning ways in football like the Hogs have , fans won’t be happy including the boosters, etc and the revenue could be impacted. UT isn’t as invincible asCowboys are when it comes to empty seats. The perception of losing even if revenue increases might be a tough pill to swallow.

I don’t believe they are making this move purely for money. At least that’s what OU is saying. It’s about recruiting and when their games are being broadcast which ultimately is about winning. Both schools are among the wealthiest in the nation already.

And Hogs didn’t move just for money either. It was about survival as they saw the SWC going down. I don’t think from fans I know they’ve ever been happy with move despite the financial success.

 

[jterrell]

I guess it depends on whose behalf you’re speaking for.

As for the fans if they fall on winning ways in football like the Hogs have , fans won’t be happy including the boosters, etc and the revenue could be impacted. UT isn’t as invincible asCowboys are when it comes to empty seats. The perception of losing even if revenue increases might be a tough pill to swallow.

I don’t believe they are making this move purely for money. At least that’s what OU is saying. It’s about recruiting and when their games are being broadcast which ultimately is about winning. Both schools are among the wealthiest in the nation already.

And Hogs didn’t move just for money either. It was about survival as they saw the SWC going down. I don’t think from fans I know they’ve ever been happy with move despite the financial success.

Arkansas's largest alumni base is in Dallas. My mom is from Little Rock.
They were a wealthy school in the 70s and have made a good move ahead of the imploding SWC/Big 12 but it has been bad for fans who have seen far too few competitive games, have to go to small southern towns not Dallas for games and tourneys.
They were ranked 20th in sports revenue but only 9th in the SEC and that would be 11 with UT/OU factored in.
That is not a good mountain to be on.

 

[Diehardblues]

Arkansas's largest alumni base is in Dallas. My mom is from Little Rock.
They were a wealthy school in the 70s and have made a good move ahead of the imploding SWC/Big 12 but it has been bad for fans who have seen far too few competitive games, have to go to small southern towns not Dallas for games and tourneys.
They were ranked 10th in sports revenue but only 9th in the SEC and that would be 11 with UT/OU factored in.
That is not a good mountain to be on.

Yea, it’s tough for me to imagine Whorn fans being happy making more money on a bigger stage with little or no success on the field.

They aren’t A&M who never had much success and are enjoying being on the bigger stage making more money. Completely different scenarios. They were used to being second fiddles.

And being a dormant football program in Fayetteville has to be a bitter pill for Alumni and fans from a better era.

 

[jterrell]

Yea, it’s tough for me to imagine Whorn fans being happy making more money on a bigger stage with little or no success on the field.

They aren’t A&M who never had much success and are enjoying being on the bigger stage making more money. Completely different scenarios.

Texas has made the most money in sports every year for a decade.
They made such an outlandish deal with ESPN that they outpace everyone.
They had a CEO AD who cared only about money until of course he was fired for not winning more.

But paying Sark was a start on investing that cash.

UT's problem is still that they are a bigger game for opponents than they see it.
SEC won't change that.
Teasips are a terrible culture fit in the SEC.
Far higher academic standards and very liberal university/administration.

That's a nightmare waiting to happen IMO.

Not sure why UT didn't go Big 10.

 

[CouchCoach]

I guess it depends on whose behalf you’re speaking for.

As for the fans if they fall on winning ways in football like the Hogs have , fans won’t be happy including the boosters, etc and the revenue could be impacted. UT isn’t as invincible asCowboys are when it comes to empty seats. The perception of losing even if revenue increases might be a tough pill to swallow.

I don’t believe they are making this move purely for money. At least that’s what OU is saying. It’s about recruiting and when their games are being broadcast which ultimately is about winning. Both schools are among the wealthiest in the nation already.

And Hogs didn’t move just for money either. It was about survival as they saw the SWC going down. I don’t think from fans I know they’ve ever been happy with move despite the financial success.

We know different fans. That nice new stadium is because of the move to the SEC and the fans up there know that.

Does "wealthiest" denote they don't want any more money? The greediest people I know are the wealthiest.

OU and UT want to paint on a bigger canvass like when UT pissed them all off with the Longhorn Network, they both knew they were keeping the Big 12 afloat after A&M bailed and they were considered the 5th of the 5 powers and only because OU was making CFP noise beating up a bunch of mediocre football teams. They were barely in 5th place in football.

The Hogs moved to the SEC after the talk of the super conference with OU and UT fizzled out. The Hogs fans travelled very well however there were a lot of complaints about where they were travelling to like Waco, Lubbock and College Station. Those were not glamourous destinations like Baton Rouge, Oxford and Tuscaloosa.

They absolutely knew this would hurt the football recruiting more than any other sport but they were prepared to bite the bullet on that. No one realized any better than they did about the importance of Texas recruits. That 64 team was over 60% from Texas. And the Big Shootout team was over 70% from Texas.

The Hogs recruiting in Texas was why Texas passed on the money Booger offered them to play every year at ATT for 10 years. They did not want the Hogs playing in Texas. They didn't know A&M would go for it.

 

[Diehardblues]

We know different fans. That nice new stadium is because of the move to the SEC and the fans up there know that.

Does "wealthiest" denote they don't want any more money? The greediest people I know are the wealthiest.

OU and UT want to paint on a bigger canvass like when UT pissed them all off with the Longhorn Network, they both knew they were keeping the Big 12 afloat after A&M bailed and they were considered the 5th of the 5 powers and only because OU was making CFP noise beating up a bunch of mediocre football teams. They were barely in 5th place in football.

The Hogs moved to the SEC after the talk of the super conference with OU and UT fizzled out. The Hogs fans travelled very well however there were a lot of complaints about where they were travelling to like Waco, Lubbock and College Station. Those were not glamourous destinations like Baton Rouge, Oxford and Tuscaloosa.

They absolutely knew this would hurt the football recruiting more than any other sport but they were prepared to bite the bullet on that. No one realized any better than they did about the importance of Texas recruits. That 64 team was over 60% from Texas. And the Big Shootout team was over 70% from Texas.

The Hogs recruiting in Texas was why Texas passed on the money Booger offered them to play every year at ATT for 10 years. They did not want the Hogs playing in Texas. They didn't know A&M would go for it.

Correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t you over the years spoke on how you and other Hog fans have missed not only the old rivalries in the SWC but being more of a power in football ? And most of us have missed them. I certainly have.

I’ve never faulted Arkansas for fleeing to SEC. At the time and uncertainty with SWC it was a safe and smart move. And it obviously turned out very well financially.

I’m a pretty loyal follower of college football and didn’t even know they had a new stadium in Fayetteville. I thought they just renovated old stadium. Like many schools have even here in Big 12.

 

[CouchCoach]

Correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t you over the years spoke on how you and other Hog fans have missed not only the old rivalries in the SWC but being more of a power in football ? And most of us have missed them. I certainly have.

I’ve never faulted Arkansas for fleeing to SEC. At the time and uncertainty with SWC it was a safe and smart move. And it obviously turned out very well financially.

I’m a pretty loyal follower of college football and didn’t even know they had a new stadium in Fayetteville. I thought they just renovated old stadium. Like many schools have even here in Big 12.

As a fan, I have to be realistic as to what was best for the school, not really even the football team. I miss the old SWC because that's what I grew up with but I also outgrew it.

Nothing stays the same which is why I would have no problem with a NFC realignment that gave the Cowboys new rivalries. I think they could get a better one going with Houston, New Orleans and Tennessee in no time.

At first we missed the UT rivalry but then the LSU one heated up and Ole Miss had been a hated rival a long time ago.

One thing I know about the good ole days, they really weren't that good.

 

[DFWJC]

That’s a sensible solution. OK St, Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor to PAC 12.

And I’d look for Kansas, Iowa St to go to Big 10. K St who knows and W Virginia on their own , possibly ACC.

Id be shocked if the Pac12 took Baylor, or even TCU

 

[Diehardblues]

As a fan, I have to be realistic as to what was best for the school, not really even the football team. I miss the old SWC because that's what I grew up with but I also outgrew it.

Nothing stays the same which is why I would have no problem with a NFC realignment that gave the Cowboys new rivalries. I think they could get a better one going with Houston, New Orleans and Tennessee in no time.

At first we missed the UT rivalry but then the LSU one heated up and Ole Miss had been a hated rival a long time ago.

One thing I know about the good ole days, they really weren't that good.

I didn’t think we were discussing what was good for the school which financially SEC is sound . No argument !

For fans I think we’d rather be a bigger force and maintain rivalries. Most of Hogs players were from Texas . Playing Texas schools helped recruiting . I’ve read their largest alumni base is in Dallas area.

In hoops Reunion arena was called Barnhill South because they had a home court advantage in conference tourney. Another sport they aren’t as dominant in.

 

[CouchCoach]

Id be shocked if the Pac12 took Baylor, or even TCU

The only reason I could see TCU is the DFW TV market and they're no longer affiliated with the C part of TCU. I am surprised they didn't go with a name change when they began cutting ties.

Baylor also still has dirty laundry and was an embarrassment for the Big 12 and it wasn't just their HC involved in it. It went well up the ladder.

 

[CouchCoach]

I didn’t think we were discussing what was good for the school which financially SEC is sound . No argument !

For fans I think we’d rather be a bigger force and maintain rivalries. Most of Hogs players were from Texas . Playing Texas schools helped recruiting . I’ve read their largest alumni base is in Dallas area.

In hoops Reunion arena was called Barnhill South because they had a home court advantage in conference tourney. Another sport they aren’t as dominant in.

My uncle was the head of the Dallas Hogs Club back in the 70's when he moved to Plano. It was large then.

The Dallas restauranteurs were unhappy when they left the SWC because of the money they spent at the tournament every year, they were bigger spenders than the OU people.

The fans were growing restless because the old SWC was AR against 7 Texas schools and it was just like the Big 12, a 2 school conference in football and let's face it, it is all about football, that's where the dough is.

At one time, AR had this heated rivalry, equal to Texas, with Ole Miss and a controversial call on a FG almost caused a riot so they ended it abruptly and no one will ever convince the Hogs fans that ref wasn't paid off to call a wide FG good.

You'd have to have been raised to understand how Arkansans connect and relate to an area. Dallas may be the mecca for young people just starting out like Atlanta is in the Southeast but they really identify more to the East than the South. Much more with Memphis than Dallas.

And Arky's always had this affinity for Mississippi because they kept Arkansas from ranking 50th in dubious honors. We could always fall back on "well, we ain't as bad as Mississippi".

There were a lot of mixed emotions in making that move and Broyles was sensitive to that and had he not been the HC of the football program for so long and the most successful one, I think another AD would have had a hard time selling that. The Razorbacks are their everything, no competing colleges and no pro teams, diehard Hog is real. And he used totally revamping the football stadium as an enticement.

Arkansas is not a rich school like UT, OU or even OSU, the money matters and well beyond sports. This was really an easy sell to the non football people that would get the advantage of that additional money and the difference between the SWC and SEC money was substantial. But everyone understood that would come at the expense of recruiting in Texas.

 

[jterrell]

My uncle was the head of the Dallas Hogs Club back in the 70's when he moved to Plano. It was large then.

The Dallas restauranteurs were unhappy when they left the SWC because of the money they spent at the tournament every year, they were bigger spenders than the OU people.

The fans were growing restless because the old SWC was AR against 7 Texas schools and it was just like the Big 12, a 2 school conference in football and let's face it, it is all about football, that's where the dough is.

At one time, AR had this heated rivalry, equal to Texas, with Ole Miss and a controversial call on a FG almost caused a riot so they ended it abruptly and no one will ever convince the Hogs fans that ref wasn't paid off to call a wide FG good.

You'd have to have been raised to understand how Arkansans connect and relate to an area. Dallas may be the mecca for young people just starting out like Atlanta is in the Southeast but they really identify more to the East than the South. Much more with Memphis than Dallas.

And Arky's always had this affinity for Mississippi because they kept Arkansas from ranking 50th in dubious honors. We could always fall back on "well, we ain't as bad as Mississippi".

There were a lot of mixed emotions in making that move and Broyles was sensitive to that and had he not been the HC of the football program for so long and the most successful one, I think another AD would have had a hard time selling that. The Razorbacks are their everything, no competing colleges and no pro teams, diehard Hog is real. And he used totally revamping the football stadium as an enticement.

Arkansas is not a rich school like UT, OU or even OSU, the money matters and well beyond sports. This was really an easy sell to the non football people that would get the advantage of that additional money and the difference between the SWC and SEC money was substantial. But everyone understood that would come at the expense of recruiting in Texas.

Much of this is true but the monied and educated in Little Rock identify with Dallas, not Memphis.

It's not a coincidence Arkansas came and hired a coach from SMU. There's still more alumni dollars rolling into Arkansas from Dallas metro than any other single city.

Memphis is growing at below State or national rates.
Meanwhile:
Dallas – Fort Worth is the fastest growing metro area in the country, expanding by 131,767 residents in the last ten years. The region now boasts 7.5 million people, making it the fourth largest metropolitan area in the country. ... This burgeoning increase in population has created record growth in cities all across the state.

Arkansas to SEC made sense but it has also hit Arkansas hard in the way it hasn't hit OU and Norman as part of Big 12.
It has hemorrhaged the base in Dallas which will matter as those aging alumni stop contributing and there aren't the younger gen to replace them.
Arkansas hasn't seen the sports success OU has and definitely hasn't seen the financial gain OU has.
Those 2 are apples to apples as to decision of where to align with Dallas their cultural big city home.

 

[Diehardblues]

My uncle was the head of the Dallas Hogs Club back in the 70's when he moved to Plano. It was large then.

The Dallas restauranteurs were unhappy when they left the SWC because of the money they spent at the tournament every year, they were bigger spenders than the OU people.

The fans were growing restless because the old SWC was AR against 7 Texas schools and it was just like the Big 12, a 2 school conference in football and let's face it, it is all about football, that's where the dough is.

At one time, AR had this heated rivalry, equal to Texas, with Ole Miss and a controversial call on a FG almost caused a riot so they ended it abruptly and no one will ever convince the Hogs fans that ref wasn't paid off to call a wide FG good.

You'd have to have been raised to understand how Arkansans connect and relate to an area. Dallas may be the mecca for young people just starting out like Atlanta is in the Southeast but they really identify more to the East than the South. Much more with Memphis than Dallas.

And Arky's always had this affinity for Mississippi because they kept Arkansas from ranking 50th in dubious honors. We could always fall back on "well, we ain't as bad as Mississippi".

There were a lot of mixed emotions in making that move and Broyles was sensitive to that and had he not been the HC of the football program for so long and the most successful one, I think another AD would have had a hard time selling that. The Razorbacks are their everything, no competing colleges and no pro teams, diehard Hog is real. And he used totally revamping the football stadium as an enticement.

Arkansas is not a rich school like UT, OU or even OSU, the money matters and well beyond sports. This was really an easy sell to the non football people that would get the advantage of that additional money and the difference between the SWC and SEC money was substantial. But everyone understood that would come at the expense of recruiting in Texas.

Yep

It’s brought financial stability to the school. No doubt about it. But they are a smaller fish in a bigger pond.

As a diehard fan I think I’d rather be on the National stage in a lesser conference with century old rivalries. But then I’m not paying the bills.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’d often called the Big 12 the Texas/ OU conference. We ( smaller school alumni and fans) always knew without them the conference couldn’t make it. It is what it is.

Big 12 didn’t respond to criticism from our big dogs in their cries about TV exposure , kickoff times and the need to attract more schools to the conference. While the major conferences are adding more schools we were losing them.

Commissioner Bowlsby deserves much of the blame.

 

[jterrell]

I’d often called the Big 12 the Texas/ OU conference. We ( smaller school alumni and fans) always knew without them the conference couldn’t make it. It is what it is.

Big 12 didn’t respond to criticism from our big dogs in their cries about TV exposure , kickoff times and the need to attract more schools to the conference. While the major conferences are adding more schools we were losing them.

Commissioner Bowlsby deserves much of the blame.

Zero conferences would succeed without their top 2 brands.
That's why the ACC, Big 10 and Pac 12 are talking alliance right now.

The Big 12 was imploding under Beebe before Bowlsby was hired.
UT was greedy and selfish and shifts sands like a fickle child. --TAMU begged them to go SEC before leaving themselves.
UT is why the conf has failed. And it is the only school to truly benefit.
Though it has also provided a lot to OU as they dominated the receding talent pool of the Big 12 and emerged a helmet school.

 

[CouchCoach]

Much of this is true but the monied and educated in Little Rock identify with Dallas, not Memphis.

It's not a coincidence Arkansas came and hired a coach from SMU. There's still more alumni dollars rolling into Arkansas from Dallas metro than any other single city.

Memphis is growing at below State or national rates.
Meanwhile:
Dallas – Fort Worth is the fastest growing metro area in the country, expanding by 131,767 residents in the last ten years. The region now boasts 7.5 million people, making it the fourth largest metropolitan area in the country. ... This burgeoning increase in population has created record growth in cities all across the state.

Arkansas to SEC made sense but it has also hit Arkansas hard in the way it hasn't hit OU and Norman as part of Big 12.
It has hemorrhaged the base in Dallas which will matter as those aging alumni stop contributing and there aren't the younger gen to replace them.
Arkansas hasn't seen the sports success OU has and definitely hasn't seen the financial gain OU has.
Those 2 are apples to apples as to decision of where to align with Dallas their cultural big city home.

LOL, the money and educated live in Little Rock, they are just like Austin is to the state of Texas.

Arkansas didn't make the decision to move in a vacuum, many were consulted about the pros and cons, as was my father-in-law a large supporter, and there wasn't anyone that didn't think this wouldn't hurt the football program with recruiting, as it has. The benefits simply outweighed the downside but they knew there was a downside.

OU and Texas both know this will boost their recruiting as they're in the big time now with plenty of big games to entice players. They get the money and the boost, Arkansas only got the money and the assumption they could still recruit well for the basketball program in Memphis did not happen. That was Nolan Ryan, not the conference they were in.

This was a simple move for OU and UT and I think they accelerate this once they find out the future of the Big 12 and are playing SEC ball in 2022. Makes no sense to wait and put their athletes at the mercy of the fans in the Big 12 towns, UT saw what happened to AR and they're not letting that happen to their athletes. There were a lot of things that happened that never made the news back then but the schools knew that it happened. Fans were pissed at AR for wrecking the SWC because they really had no idea that it was already on the verge. They took that out on some of their athletes. If that happened today, lead story but it was kept under wraps back then.

 

[CouchCoach]

Zero conferences would succeed without their top 2 brands.
That's why the ACC, Big 10 and Pac 12 are talking alliance right now.

The Big 12 was imploding under Beebe before Bowlsby was hired.
UT was greedy and selfish and shifts sands like a fickle child. --TAMU begged them to go SEC before leaving themselves.
UT is why the conf has failed. And it is the only school to truly benefit.
Though it has also provided a lot to OU as they dominated the receding talent pool of the Big 12 and emerged a helmet school.

The funniest line to come out of this was the anon one from someone in the Commissioner's office, might have even been him. "We expected something like this out of Texas but Oklahoma really disappointed us".

However, go back to when Switzer told the NCAA to pound sand, "we're OU and will do what's best for OU". He was talking about leading a walkout of the NCAA back then and they would have taken a lot with them. NCAA was even more heavy handed back then and thought they actually controlled the schools and they tried to screw with some OU TV money and Switzer backed them down. He also had a lot of money behind him and quite a few pissed off AD's and HC's.