Texas and OU have expressed interest in joining SEC

[jterrell]

LOL, the money and educated live in Little Rock, they are just like Austin is to the state of Texas.

Arkansas didn't make the decision to move in a vacuum, many were consulted about the pros and cons, as was my father-in-law a large supporter, and there wasn't anyone that didn't think this wouldn't hurt the football program with recruiting, as it has. The benefits simply outweighed the downside but they knew there was a downside.

OU and Texas both know this will boost their recruiting as they're in the big time now with plenty of big games to entice players. They get the money and the boost, Arkansas only got the money and the assumption they could still recruit well for the basketball program in Memphis did not happen. That was Nolan Ryan, not the conference they were in.

This was a simple move for OU and UT and I think they accelerate this once they find out the future of the Big 12 and are playing SEC ball in 2022. Makes no sense to wait and put their athletes at the mercy of the fans in the Big 12 towns, UT saw what happened to AR and they're not letting that happen to their athletes. There were a lot of things that happened that never made the news back then but the schools knew that it happened. Fans were pissed at AR for wrecking the SWC because they really had no idea that it was already on the verge. They took that out on some of their athletes. If that happened today, lead story but it was kept under wraps back then.

Nolan Richardson and 40 minutes of *ell was special. But it also mattered more because it was on display in Texas.

You keep pretending a decision only matters in the now or past... it is the present yes but also the future that matters.
Arkansas took a mighty back seat to OU and now OU has also joined the conference.
Arkansas has had very emabrassing results for the majority of that tenure and the money int he Big 12 was never bad.
Arkansas poured all that money into those 2 stadium overhauls to "compete" in the SEC but hasn't been competitive.
I know zero people who prefer Arkansas in the SEC to the old SWC but yes they understand the decision that was made.

Arkansas is currently begging fans to show up to games.

I understand these things because Texas Tech has a similar problem.
They allowed Craig James and Tommy Tuberville to scam a firing of Mike Leach.
The program angered many fans and fell off badly.
It has still not recovered.

 

[jterrell]

LOL, the money and educated live in Little Rock, they are just like Austin is to the state of Texas.

Arkansas didn't make the decision to move in a vacuum, many were consulted about the pros and cons, as was my father-in-law a large supporter, and there wasn't anyone that didn't think this wouldn't hurt the football program with recruiting, as it has. The benefits simply outweighed the downside but they knew there was a downside.

OU and Texas both know this will boost their recruiting as they're in the big time now with plenty of big games to entice players. They get the money and the boost, Arkansas only got the money and the assumption they could still recruit well for the basketball program in Memphis did not happen. That was Nolan Ryan, not the conference they were in.

This was a simple move for OU and UT and I think they accelerate this once they find out the future of the Big 12 and are playing SEC ball in 2022. Makes no sense to wait and put their athletes at the mercy of the fans in the Big 12 towns, UT saw what happened to AR and they're not letting that happen to their athletes. There were a lot of things that happened that never made the news back then but the schools knew that it happened. Fans were pissed at AR for wrecking the SWC because they really had no idea that it was already on the verge. They took that out on some of their athletes. If that happened today, lead story but it was kept under wraps back then.

OU and Texas can not leave for 22 even if they pay a full 160M buyout. There rights belong to the conference.
They would have to pay well above 160 M to get those rights transferred to the SEC or all home games media fees in the SEC will simply be paid out to the Big 12 until 2025.
Not something the SEC will endure which is why the acceptance date to join was 2025.
This is going to go to courts and will almost certainly not be resolved for the 2022 season.
No one believes that it will.

 

[Diehardblues]

OU and Texas can not leave for 22 even if they pay a full 160M buyout. There rights belong to the conference.
They would have to pay well above 160 M to get those rights transferred to the SEC or all home games media fees in the SEC will simply be paid out to the Big 12 until 2025.
Not something the SEC will endure which is why the acceptance date to join was 2025.
This is going to go to courts and will almost certainly not be resolved for the 2022 season.
No one believes that it will.

Unless of course the Big 12 splinters off and dissolves before then.

I’d be fine with Big 12 bringing in more schools to keep in tact basically forcing TX and OU to stay thru 2024 but that probably won’t be the case. It’s more likely remaining groups left join forces elsewhere which opens the door for an earlier exit to SEC.

I can’t imagine the remaining schools just waiting it out until 2024 to make a move.

 

[CouchCoach]

OU and Texas can not leave for 22 even if they pay a full 160M buyout. There rights belong to the conference.
They would have to pay well above 160 M to get those rights transferred to the SEC or all home games media fees in the SEC will simply be paid out to the Big 12 until 2025.
Not something the SEC will endure which is why the acceptance date to join was 2025.
This is going to go to courts and will almost certainly not be resolved for the 2022 season.
No one believes that it will.

I do because I do not think the Big 12 is going to exist and I think OU and UT think the same thing. I don't think they think they'll have to pay close to that.

It's every team for themselves now and the alums expect them to protect the school first, take care of our own. What they're going to have is K State wondering if they can collect from all the other schools when they're left out.

As far as going to the courts, depends on the venue. And since the intent is already there, pretty easy for a judge to decide. And good luck with the Big 12 proving damages with those woeful ratings at the very bottom of the Power 5. If not for OU and Texas, they've not even a Power 5 conference in the ratings and that is what matters.

j, you are looking for justice, just as any good Red Raider would be, but when justice and money collide, my money is on money. And OU and UT are all about the money and they've already got oodles.

 

[CouchCoach]

Unless of course the Big 12 splinters off and dissolves before then.

I’d be fine with Big 12 bringing in more schools to keep in tact basically forcing TX and OU to stay thru 2024 but that probably won’t be the case. It’s more likely remaining groups left join forces elsewhere which opens the door for an earlier exit to SEC.

I can’t imagine the remaining schools just waiting it out until 2024 to make a move.

No way that happens, these schools left behind are already under pressure from their alums and money people to take care of #1, just like OU and UT did.

I would like to see that as well but I gave up on justice v money many years ago.

Greg, the Big 12 has no pulling power and the TV money will be shot to hell, they have nothing to offer to a big time program when the only two they had are exiting. They are the ones in need of a landing spot and I'd bet a dollar to a donut every school is working behind the scenes to take care of #1. The Big 12 is disintegrating and I'd bet on that.

 

[Diehardblues]

What Texas and OU have to keep in mind behind the money is these other smaller less powerful schools is what they built their dynasties on.

Just like Arkansas and Nebraska for example have discovered is the pastures are greener but the success of your sports programs is sacrificed.

We’ll see how happy their fans are getting their butts handed to them by SEC powers while not winning any conference championships and possibly missing out on playoffs.

Their records and winning ways have mostly relied on plunging thru these old rivalries for generations. Screw em!!

 

[jterrell]

Unless of course the Big 12 splinters off and dissolves before then.

I’d be fine with Big 12 bringing in more schools to keep in tact basically forcing TX and OU to stay thru 2024 but that probably won’t be the case. It’s more likely remaining groups left join forces elsewhere which opens the door for an earlier exit to SEC.

I can’t imagine the remaining schools just waiting it out until 2024 to make a move.

That is 100% the bet.
And it looks very unlikely it would splinter before 2023 as it would take time to shift teams anywhere.

So that's the game now. OU/UT waiting out other schools and the conf direction.
Big 12 and ALL remaining ADs stating over and over to be patient and expect those schools to stay until 2025.

The remaining teams would need powerful offers to leave and we have seen zero of those.
Why would the Pac/ACC/B1G hasten the demise of the Big 12 at the benefit of the SEC?
Only if it seriously enriched themselves.
And with ESPN landing firmly on SEC it means they would only do it for other media partners benefits/guarantees.

With the recent ACC/B1G/PAC alliance talks I think this will drag more than we considered possible.

The Big 12 is literally better off waiting and inviting 2-4 schools than simply disbanding for the American. Go get Cincy, Houston, USF. SMU and become a top Gof5 style conf.

 

[Diehardblues]

No way that happens, these schools left behind are already under pressure from their alums and money people to take care of #1, just like OU and UT did.

I would like to see that as well but I gave up on justice v money many years ago.

Greg, the Big 12 has no pulling power and the TV money will be shot to hell, they have nothing to offer to a big time program when the only two they had are exiting. They are the ones in need of a landing spot and I'd bet a dollar to a donut every school is working behind the scenes to take care of #1. The Big 12 is disintegrating and I'd bet on that.

It won’t completely be shot to hell while Tx and OU are still in it. That provides some time to reorganize . I agree conference looks Unsavable. But I’ll retain hope until there isn’t.

At least we have a group of remaining schools looking to pull together to negotiate other possible mergers instead of every man on their own.

For some reason these bigger schools want us to fail just like Faggies wished upon us. Screw em to hell!!

 

[Diehardblues]

That is 100% the bet.
And it looks very unlikely it would splinter before 2023 as it would take time to shift teams anywhere.

So that's the game now. OU/UT waiting out other schools and the conf direction.
Big 12 and ALL remaining ADs stating over and over to be patient and expect those schools to stay until 2025.

The remaining teams would need powerful offers to leave and we have seen zero of those.
Why would the Pac/ACC/B1G hasten the demise of the Big 12 at the benefit of the SEC?
Only if it seriously enriched themselves.
And with ESPN landing firmly on SEC it means they would only do it for other media partners benefits/guarantees.

With the recent ACC/B1G/PAC alliance talks I think this will drag more than we considered possible.

The Big 12 is literally better off waiting and inviting 2-4 schools than simply disbanding for the American. Go get Cincy, Houston, USF. SMU and become a top Gof5 style conf.

That makes too much sense. We could become like a Big West conference in Southwest. I’d be fine with that.

Keep as much of the band together as we can and bring some old members back. I think we could think even bigger with other regional teams like UTEP, Tulsa, NM amd NM St. Maybe Rice and Tulane and some Louisiana schools .

Many possibilities out there . We could have our own 16 -18 team conference.

 

[jterrell]

I do because I do not think the Big 12 is going to exist and I think OU and UT think the same thing. I don't think they think they'll have to pay close to that.

It's every team for themselves now and the alums expect them to protect the school first, take care of our own. What they're going to have is K State wondering if they can collect from all the other schools when they're left out.

As far as going to the courts, depends on the venue. And since the intent is already there, pretty easy for a judge to decide. And good luck with the Big 12 proving damages with those woeful ratings at the very bottom of the Power 5. If not for OU and Texas, they've not even a Power 5 conference in the ratings and that is what matters.

j, you are looking for justice, just as any good Red Raider would be, but when justice and money collide, my money is on money. And OU and UT are all about the money and they've already got oodles.

Bro none of that makes any sense.

The remaining schools are not jumping ship until they get very real, beneficial offers. Zero have this far.
The only offer has been the American to 3-5 teams which all said umm no thanks.
If the new TV money is down to 8-10M a year they'd be literally insane to blow up 20M in cash from UT/OU to go run to that pittance.
So they obviously won't.
The best case for the remaining schools is 2 more years of 35M pay outs plus a bonus 20M pay out from UT/OU.
They understand this.

As to courts, again that's the issue. Courts are SLOW and findings get challenged and new cases are presented.
The Big 12 by the very nature of the value of the contracts falling off with OU/OU leaving can state that the liability is enormous.
Thus point 1 is already won for the remaining Big 12 schools.
It's not even in dispute.

I fully expect this it play out thusly:

UT/OU are here in 2021 and 2022.
Reach a buy out settlement to leave for 2023. Likely in the 100M range total.

Big 12 then seeks deals for their members in current P5 that rewards them with 50% payouts in their new conferences for a few seasons.
Failing that they invite new schools and fill out to 12 teams and keep afloat until TV deal runs out in 2025.

Every year TV will shift more and more to streaming. Eventually these confs will likely simply push their own paid services, bypassing these networks. But that may be 20 years away.

 

[CouchCoach]

What Texas and OU have to keep in mind behind the money is these other smaller less powerful schools is what they built their dynasties on.

Just like Arkansas and Nebraska for example have discovered is the pastures are greener but the success of your sports programs is sacrificed.

We’ll see how happy their fans are getting their butts handed to them by SEC powers while not winning any conference championships and possibly missing out on playoffs.

Their records and winning ways have mostly relied on plunging thru these old rivalries for generations. Screw em!!

Both schools think this helps their recruiting, unlike Arkansas knowing it would hurt that in football.

Know what OU and UT are looking at? Those recruitment rankings with 4 of the top 8 in the SEC, Bama, LSU, UGA and not lost on Texas, A&M at 8th. OU broke the top 10 at 10. UT was a no show and that doesn't sit well with them.

How has the Big 12 competition helped OU? They haven't won a CFP game in 4 tries, they wilt under the stiffer competition because these other teams are used to it.

They've been the big dogs in the smallest kennel and that hasn't worked. And since when did you encounter any Longhorn or Sooner fan when they thought any other team could beat them?

Don't get me wrong, I hate UT, it's my blood right; however, I want me some big time college football because that's my first love and I'll take UT v LSU over K State and OU v A&M over Kansas. I only watched the Big 12 for OU and UT anyway. Maybe some OSU and ISU but that's it.

I am selfish, this is all about me and my needs and I needs me some big time college football, I am spoiled.

 

[DFWJC]

Much of this is true but the monied and educated in Little Rock identify with Dallas, not Memphis.

It's not a coincidence Arkansas came and hired a coach from SMU. There's still more alumni dollars rolling into Arkansas from Dallas metro than any other single city.

Memphis is growing at below State or national rates.
Meanwhile:
Dallas – Fort Worth is the fastest growing metro area in the country, expanding by 131,767 residents in the last ten years. The region now boasts 7.5 million people, making it the fourth largest metropolitan area in the country. ... This burgeoning increase in population has created record growth in cities all across the state.

Arkansas to SEC made sense but it has also hit Arkansas hard in the way it hasn't hit OU and Norman as part of Big 12.
It has hemorrhaged the base in Dallas which will matter as those aging alumni stop contributing and there aren't the younger gen to replace them.
Arkansas hasn't seen the sports success OU has and definitely hasn't seen the financial gain OU has.
Those 2 are apples to apples as to decision of where to align with Dallas their cultural big city home.

To put Memphis in perspective.....it is now smaller than Ft Worth

 

[Diehardblues]

Both schools think this helps their recruiting, unlike Arkansas knowing it would hurt that in football.

Know what OU and UT are looking at? Those recruitment rankings with 4 of the top 8 in the SEC, Bama, LSU, UGA and not lost on Texas, A&M at 8th. OU broke the top 10 at 10. UT was a no show and that doesn't sit well with them.

How has the Big 12 competition helped OU? They haven't won a CFP game in 4 tries, they wilt under the stiffer competition because these other teams are used to it.

They've been the big dogs in the smallest kennel and that hasn't worked. And since when did you encounter any Longhorn or Sooner fan when they thought any other team could beat them?

Don't get me wrong, I hate UT, it's my blood right; however, I want me some big time college football because that's my first love and I'll take UT v LSU over K State and OU v A&M over Kansas. I only watched the Big 12 for OU and UT anyway. Maybe some OSU and ISU but that's it.

I am selfish, this is all about me and my needs and I needs me some big time college football, I am spoiled.

At least you admit your selfishness .

Like I said earlier it depends on who you are speaking for. I’m speaking as an alumni and diehard of one of the remaining schools.

We will sorely miss our big time rivals . And root even harder against them now. Hope they end up like Arkansas and Nebraska .

 

[Diehardblues]

If Sooners don’t learn how to build a defense they won’t do well in SEC.

They’ve out scored their opponents in Big 12. It’s why they’ve struggled in CFP. And why they’ll struggle in SEC.

They probably wouldn’t have even been a playoff team if not in Big 12 rolling thru their opponents.

And Texas is under recruiting because they haven’t done as well in recent years . And if they continue not winning their recruiting will flounder more.-

 

[CouchCoach]

To put Memphis in perspective.....it is now smaller than Ft Worth

Not talking about now but then. Little Rock was the smaller Memphis with the same exact polarization, only reversed East to West. Little Rock related to Memphis more than Dallas when I was growing up there and also had more soul with Beale Street and Elvis so it was cooler back then. That entire midsouth region, Jackson/Memphis, plateaued while Nashville took off.

 

[CouchCoach]

If Sooners don’t learn how to build a defense they won’t do well in SEC.

They’ve out scored their opponents in Big 12. It’s why they’ve struggled in CFP. And why they’ll struggle in SEC.

They probably wouldn’t have even been a playoff team if not in Big 12 rolling thru their opponents.

And Texas is under recruiting because they haven’t done as well in recent years . And if they continue not winning their recruiting will flounder more.-

It is not that OU can't learn to build a D, they know how, they can't compete with the SEC for the players and there are fewer 4 and 5 star D players than O. When a 4 or 5 star DL is willing to sit until his junior or senior year to start and still gets picked in the 1st round, OU cannot compete with that.

The Big 12 has had to adapt to recruiting shortages on defense and the OL. It was the lack of OL players that brought about the spread offense. They could not count on the smaller and less talented OL to hold blocks long enough for the traditional offense to work well, had to be quick hitting. On the other side of that, they had better QB's than the SEC because of that.

Two examples of just how tough it is for some schools came about in the last 5 years.

I was watching AL-Miss St play when the announcer mentioned 1 of the 2 4 star recruits Miss St had on their team. He then contrasted that with the fact that Bama had 2 players that were not at least 4 stars. At that time, they had 6 5 stars as backups. How in the hell does anyone go up against that and what they don't grab, Clemson, UGA and LSU grab and about every 3 years, AU.

I was watching the Bedlam game about 4 years ago when the announcer mentioned an OSU player from Muskogee and the play by play guy mentions that OU had no OK recruits on the first or second teams. OSU had 90% of it's starters from OK.

I do think Riley is a smart guy and not just a QB whisperer, he knows the game and he also knows the national champs teams built by Switzer and Stoops were heavy on the D side. I think he sees this as his opportunity to even the D recruiting field a little because at one time, OU was getting some real D studs.

Texas is an unknown with Sarkisian and they no longer have that swagger and have been second to OU for so long, I think that's going to take some time. Much to my joy, still hate them.

The Hogs take on the Horns and I will be 3 days removed from major abdominal surgery and will have to keep myself calm. That is one tall order, might have to watch my first Hogs-Horns game as stoned as Cheech and Chong.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not talking about now but then. Little Rock was the smaller Memphis with the same exact polarization, only reversed East to West. Little Rock related to Memphis more than Dallas when I was growing up there and also had more soul with Beale Street and Elvis so it was cooler back then. That entire midsouth region, Jackson/Memphis, plateaued while Nashville took off.

Yea, we went thru Memphis couple years ago. Spent one night. But Beale street wasn’t as glamorous as before. And honestly Memphis seemed deteriorating as well. It’s been about 25 years since I’d been there.

No comparison to Dallas anymore.

 

[Ghost12]

You know, the SEC has got a little bit of Big 12 style scores in it these days:

Alabama 63, Ole Miss 48.
Mizzou 50, Arkansas 48.
LSU 53, Ole Miss 48.
Alabama 52, Florida 46 (SECCG)

The days of Alabama 24, Auburn 13 are long gone.

 

[Ghost12]

Yea, we went thru Memphis couple years ago. Spent one night. But Beale street wasn’t as glamorous as before. And honestly Memphis seemed deteriorating as well. It’s been about 25 years since I’d been there.

I've driven through Memphis many times, but just passing through. The I-40 bridge over the Mississippi (connecting West Memphis Ark to Memphis Tenn) deteriorated to the point where they shut it down for most of this year. I think it is back open now though.

 

[Diehardblues]

It is not that OU can't learn to build a D, they know how, they can't compete with the SEC for the players and there are fewer 4 and 5 star D players than O. When a 4 or 5 star DL is willing to sit until his junior or senior year to start and still gets picked in the 1st round, OU cannot compete with that.

The Big 12 has had to adapt to recruiting shortages on defense and the OL. It was the lack of OL players that brought about the spread offense. They could not count on the smaller and less talented OL to hold blocks long enough for the traditional offense to work well, had to be quick hitting. On the other side of that, they had better QB's than the SEC because of that.

Two examples of just how tough it is for some schools came about in the last 5 years.

I was watching AL-Miss St play when the announcer mentioned 1 of the 2 4 star recruits Miss St had on their team. He then contrasted that with the fact that Bama had 2 players that were not at least 4 stars. At that time, they had 6 5 stars as backups. How in the hell does anyone go up against that and what they don't grab, Clemson, UGA and LSU grab and about every 3 years, AU.

I was watching the Bedlam game about 4 years ago when the announcer mentioned an OSU player from Muskogee and the play by play guy mentions that OU had no OK recruits on the first or second teams. OSU had 90% of it's starters from OK.

I do think Riley is a smart guy and not just a QB whisperer, he knows the game and he also knows the national champs teams built by Switzer and Stoops were heavy on the D side. I think he sees this as his opportunity to even the D recruiting field a little because at one time, OU was getting some real D studs.

Texas is an unknown with Sarkisian and they no longer have that swagger and have been second to OU for so long, I think that's going to take some time. Much to my joy, still hate them.

The Hogs take on the Horns and I will be 3 days removed from major abdominal surgery and will have to keep myself calm. That is one tall order, might have to watch my first Hogs-Horns game as stoned as Cheech and Chong.

First of all gods speed on your upcoming procedure and a speedy recovery my friend .

But I can see why you’re so embracing of the move to SEC. You get to rekindle old rivalries.

Unfortunately for many of us left out in the cold we are very bitter losing our century old rivalry games we’ve had for generations.

And there’s going to be some economic repercussions in our communities as a result.