The biggest surprise about the Frederick pick

[xwalker]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/e...owboys-select-travis-frederick-with-31st-pick

Frederick also downplayed his college coaches reports of Frederick's strength in the weight room. It's not surprising that he downplayed his draft status. He is the anti-Geno Smith.

 

[jterrell]

He said his agent told him 25-40. I had him 50th overall. It's a reach to me but not nearly the reach as others seemed to think it was.

It's a complete guess to say he would have been there at 47. There were 8 OL already off the board by the time we picked at 31. Only 1 OL was picked from 32-47. Maybe he would have been there but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

I have more of an issue with the next pick. Escobar. Like the player. Hate the spot. Larry Warford was signed, sealed and delivered and we decided to have one more go around of Anthony Fasano and Martellus Bennett.

It's like we held our noses for the Frederick pick and that got back to shiny toys. The front is fixed, now let's have some fun.

I heard Ciskowski defend only one OL/DL added in the draft and UDFA by saying "well, first....we have numbers along the OL". Yeah, you do have numbers and with the exception of one or two, they all suck. Every team has numbers. How good are those numbers, that's the question. You're upgrading talent in the draft. You have the same numbers at CB and that doesn't stop you from stockpiling them.

little known fact but just because you draft guys doesn't make them better than what you have... even if what you have is pretty bad.

the league itself told us where the line of demarcation was in their opinions on ol. 8 ol in r1 then a long drought of about 4 rounds before 8 more were gone.

basically EVERY ol was reached for. we did it once and it made sense, but you can't do it with multiple picks to meet your personal fetish for OL.
we had to stick to the board; when you get past day 1 starters you just need NFL talent.

 

[VirusX]

Plain and simply said... I think everyone will see just what we got for "Value" when we see Fredrick maul people and Williams become a leader in the lockeroom... The more I hear about both the more I love the trade...

 

[cnhnyy]

How many times has Jerry and the Cowboys been skewered for "getting too cute" and trying to move down too much and losing Max Unger? Still, 4 years later I was hearing it.

They had to take Frederick where they did. They absolutely could not wait until their second round pick to take him.

Max was gone two picks before our first pick in 2009. We traded down AFTER he was off the board.

 

[jrumann59]

Everyone seems to caught up in the numbers. This was a poor talent draft, there was not a lot of "blue chippers". In past draftes there were arguably 40 1st round worthy picks this draft the sweet spot was the 2nd round, unfortunately picks 20-70 were going to be close in talent but none were weak 1st rounders but good 2nd round talent. Since this draft was middle heavy it became not so much best player available but best player that fit a need and was not too much of a "reach". We saw how the rounds went when players at certain positions went there was a run on that position. I feel that yes Dallas, "reached" they did so with good intel he would not have lasted til their next pick. At 31 they were not going to get a 1st round talent, as far as Floyd is concern I do not think he was a 1st round talent and the History of UFA linemen in the NFL a is bad one and that may be a reason why they did not stay at 18. I am glad they took a center/guard type that I think will solidify the center position for years to come. I also believe that Winston will be the starting RT and Berny might be a back up,

 

[Risen Star]

Ciskowski also immediately said that there wasn't value there at OL after the first round. They liked the value in the 3rd for the defensive secondary players. It wasn't just numbers. The team just values OLs differently than you do. Both the guys on the roster, and the guys available from the college ranks.

There's never value there for the Cowboys. Year after year it's the same thing.

Maybe the issue isn't the quality of the players but the evaluation skills of our decision makers.

 

[Verdict]

He said his agent told him 25-40. I had him 50th overall. It's a reach to me but not nearly the reach as others seemed to think it was.

It's a complete guess to say he would have been there at 47. There were 8 OL already off the board by the time we picked at 31. Only 1 OL was picked from 32-47. Maybe he would have been there but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.

I have more of an issue with the next pick. Escobar. Like the player. Hate the spot. Larry Warford was signed, sealed and delivered and we decided to have one more go around of Anthony Fasano and Martellus Bennett.

It's like we held our noses for the Frederick pick and that got back to shiny toys. The front is fixed, now let's have some fun.


I heard Ciskowski defend only one OL/DL added in the draft and UDFA by saying "well, first....we have numbers along the OL". Yeah, you do have numbers and with the exception of one or two, they all suck. Every team has numbers. How good are those numbers, that's the question. You're upgrading talent in the draft. You have the same numbers at CB and that doesn't stop you from stockpiling them.

I understand your chagrin over not taking Warford in the second round. But evidently the Cowboys view him as a lesser lineman who may not be able to help us out this year. To me, Warford and Frederick seem to be very similar players, so if they don't like Warford, why take Frederick?

My best guess is they are playing Frederick at center but insist on getting a more athletic guard to play beside him who can pull and run, and they didn't see Warford as that guy or maybe they just stuck to their board.

 

[Risen Star]

What makes you think that Escobar is just one more go around of Fasano and Bennett? Everything I've read he is light years ahead of either one of those players coming out of college.

I don't know what you've been reading then.

Fasano was a consensus 2nd round projection. So was Bennett. Escobar was a 2nd/3rd round projection from everything I've read. He was probably the lowest ranked of the three by the resources we have access to.

But my point wasn't really about the talent but the opportunity. We've tried this 2 TE New England offense before and it never amounts to anything. So consider me skeptical this third time around.

And I don't know that I want to feature 2 TEs with Dez Bryant on the field anyway.

 

[Verdict]

It would be nice to see how teams had players rated. I'm not sure why it is a big secret after the draft.

It seems like the Cowboys would give this info to their own media guys after the draft is over.

I have wondered the same thing. My guess is that the organization doesn't want the fan base to know how far off they are in evaluating talent. If we had that can you imagine the besting they would have for having a hall of fame guy rated as a 7th rounder when he was taken in the first round?

Secondly, while it wouldn't affect the draft that is already concluded but it would allow insight into how we rank players on our board. It might give a team info which would encourage them to leap frog us in a subsequent draft and get a player we are targeting.

 

[Risen Star]

I understand your chagrin over not taking Warford in the second round. But evidently the Cowboys view him as a lesser lineman who may not be able to help us out this year.

The problem with that is the Cowboys are probably the worst in the league at evaluating OL talent.

I would hope we weren't all that concerned with who would help us out RIGHTNOW. This is the NFL draft not veteran free agency. This is an investment for the future. Not that I don't think Warford couldn't walk in hungover and start at G for us immediately.

 

[Risen Star]

I have wondered the same thing. My guess is that the organization doesn't want the fan base to know how far off they are in evaluating talent. If we had that can you imagine the besting they would have for having a hall of fame guy rated as a 7th rounder when he was taken in the first round?

Secondly, while it wouldn't affect the draft that is already concluded but it would allow insight into how we rank players on our board. It might give a team info which would encourage them to leap frog us in a subsequent draft and get a player we are targeting.

Right. It's not just the Cowboys. Teams don't want you knowing their rankings so you can look back and pick it apart.

I don't care who you are. If you stack a value board there will be some serious errors on it over time.

 

[5Stars]

Right. It's not just the Cowboys. Teams don't want you knowing their rankings so you can look back and pick it apart.

I don't care who you are. If you stack a value board there will be some serious errors on it over time.

But, the Cowboys always get it wrong, right?

Because I know you are very smart and know that all the other teams do it just right, huh?

If only you could be the GM of the Cowboys! We would win the SB every year!!

:toast:

 

[Verdict]

The problem with that is the Cowboys are probably the worst in the league at evaluating OL talent.

I would hope we weren't all that concerned with who would help us out RIGHTNOW. This is the NFL draft not veteran free agency. This is an investment for the future. Not that I don't think Warford couldn't walk in hungover and start at G for us immediately.

I'm not so sure about that Risen. Historically, when we have chosen an offensive lineman with a premium pick, it hasn't gone all that badly for us. Maybe we have been undervaluing offensive linemen but I think we have done a pretty decent job in evualating the ranking among the players in a class.

 

[5Stars]

I'm not so sure about that Risen. Historically, when we have chosen an offensive lineman with a premium pick, it hasn't gone all that badly for us. Maybe we have been undervaluing offensive linemen but I think we have done a pretty decent job in evualating the ranking among the players in a class.

 

[Idgit]

There's never value there for the Cowboys. Year after year it's the same thing.

Maybe the issue isn't the quality of the players but the evaluation skills of our decision makers.

Or...bear with me here...your notion of how to value players might not be spot-on.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm not so sure about that Risen. Historically, when we have chosen an offensive lineman with a premium pick, it hasn't gone all that badly for us. Maybe we have been undervaluing offensive linemen but I think we have done a pretty decent job in evualating the ranking among the players in a class.

Would you like me to list the OL taken since Jerry decided he was an NFL GM?

 

[Verdict]

But, the Cowboys always get it wrong, right?

Because I know you are very smart and know that all the other teams do it just right, huh?

If only you could be the GM of the Cowboys! We would win the SB every year!!

:toast:

Well, to be fair, he did say that no team would want their board made public. It wasn't solely directed toward the Cowboys. Or at least that is my interpretation of what he said.

 

[Risen Star]

Or...bear with me here...you're notion of how to value players might not be spot-on.

This is the kind of comment you can make when your football team fields a productive line. Not the Bad News Bears slop we've seen here for years.

If I don't agree with the Cowboys on OL, chances are I'm pretty right.

 

[Verdict]

Would you like me to list the OL taken since Jerry decided he was an NFL GM?

If you list the ones taken with a first or second round grade, I think you will find quite a bit of success. As a side note, I guess this is the reward I get for trying to tell the lynch mob to cut you some slack!

 

[5Stars]

Well, to be fair, he did say that no team would want their board made public. It wasn't solely directed toward the Cowboys. Or at least that is my interpretation of what he said.

I know that, but he always says that the Cowboys are the ones that always get it wrong, as if he actually knows, which he does not.