The case for going for Lawrence

[RonnieT24]

Romo wasn’t the leagues leading passer in 2014. It was his most effective season and given the other supporting cast he could have been enough. But we can’t count on this dysfunctional organization to provide that support.

Would a closer to HOF caliber make a difference ? Who knows but I’m about ready to try. If nothing else maybe it get us closer. Only when you come to realize this dysfunctional organization may not be able to build it around Dak anymore than they were able to with Romo can you begin looking outside the norm. Especially when we see some of these young guns turn their teams around without the same supporting cast on offense or great defenses.

Actually he was exactly that. Here is the passer rating leader board from 2014:


1 Tony Romo * DAL 34 QB 15 15 12-3-0 304 435 69.9 3705 34 7.8 9 2.1 191 68 8.5 9.1 12.2 247.0 113.2 79.7 29 215 7.52 8.11 6.3 3 4
2 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 31 QB 16 16 12-4-0 341 520 65.6 4381 38 7.3 5 1.0 221 80 8.4 9.5 12.8 273.8 112.2 78.3 28 174 7.68 8.65 5.1 1 1
3 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 32 QB 16 16 11-5-0 408 608 67.1 4952 32 5.3 9 1.5 244 94 8.1 8.5 12.1 309.5 103.3 68.7 33 172 7.46 7.82 5.1 2 3
4 Peyton Manning* DEN 38 QB 16 16 12-4-0 395 597 66.2 4727 39 6.5 15 2.5 227 86 7.9 8.1 12.0 295.4 101.5 72.0 17 118 7.51 7.68 2.8 1 1
5 Tom Brady * NWE 37 QB 16 16 12-4-0 373 582 64.1 4109 33 5.7 9 1.5 221 69 7.1 7.5 11.0 256.8 97.4 76.2 21 134 6.59 7.01 3.5 2 2
6 Drew Brees* NOR 35 QB 16 16 7-9-0 456 659 69.2 4952 33 5.0 17 2.6 259 69 7.5 7.4 10.9 309.5 97.0 74.8 29 186 6.93 6.77 4.2


Then is if click on QBR and sort the list looks like this:

1 Tony Romo * DAL 34 QB 15 15 12-3-0 304 435 69.9 3705 34 7.8 9 2.1 191 68 8.5 9.1 12.2 247.0 113.2 79.7 29 215 7.52 8.11 6.3 3 4
2 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 31 QB 16 16 12-4-0 341 520 65.6 4381 38 7.3 5 1.0 221 80 8.4 9.5 12.8 273.8 112.2 78.3 28 174 7.68 8.65 5.1 1 1
3 Tom Brady * NWE 37 QB 16 16 12-4-0 373 582 64.1 4109 33 5.7 9 1.5 221 69 7.1 7.5 11.0 256.8 97.4 76.2 21 134 6.59 7.01 3.5 2 2
4 Drew Brees* NOR 35 QB 16 16 7-9-0 456 659 69.2 4952 33 5.0 17 2.6 259 69 7.5 7.4 10.9 309.5 97.0 74.8 29 186 6.93 6.77 4.2 2 2
5 Peyton Manning* DEN 38 QB 16 16 12-4-0 395 597 66.2 4727 39 6.5 15 2.5 227 86 7.9 8.1 12.0 295.4 101.5 72.0 17 118 7.51 7.68 2.8 1

So while he did not lead the league in yards.. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that "yards don't matter." He led the league in passing efficiency. So he was the best in the game that year.

And I'm perplexed as to how people keep pointing out that the Joneses have failed to build around two very good QBs... but are somehow going to become that much smarter when they draft the latest shiny new toy QB. Our best chance to get to the dance is to give them LESS problems to solve not more.

 

[Redball Express]

But the bigger point is how much different would it be if we had one of these top guns like a Mahomes or Wilson?

Prescott much like Romo was more than serviceable with all of the other parts in line including defense and coaching staff. But in a dysfunctional organization maybe we need a Mahomes type stud to take us further. And Trevor is attractive.

Never any guarantees but if you don’t believe Dak much like with Romo isn’t or wasn’t enough given the circumstances were stuck with it’s not such an unreasonable assertion because we shouldn’t continue looking at our situation like we would most teams . We must look beyond the norm.

Is this organization capable of building a championship team around Dak? That’s not on Dak. That’s on our dysfunctional franchise.

The answer to me is..

We do not have the coaching structure to develop a QB even if we get a Lawrence.

Dak will be starting his 6th season next season if he stays. Most good teams with a good quality QB should win early in the QBs career.

Mahomes..Wilson..Brady..Manning's (both)..won Championships young.

Dak is not young anymore.

I see us watching the Jones still trying to get Dak a ring on into 2025..

Just like they did with Romo.

And with the same results.

 

[RonnieT24]

Do we think the Chiefs and Seahawks think they’d be having the same success with Dak?

Im not sure why Cowboy fans can’t appreciate what Daks done without realizing one of these bigger guns could have done more?

Nobody is carrying a 36 points per game defense anywhere.. There is no plausible scenario where ANY QB overcomes a defense that bad. You know how we know? Because it's never been done.. Not even once in the 100 year history of the league has a defense that give up over 30 points per game won a championship. And they never will no matter who you put at QB..

 

[Diehardblues]

Actually he was exactly that. Here is the passer rating leader board from 2014:


1 Tony Romo * DAL 34 QB 15 15 12-3-0 304 435 69.9 3705 34 7.8 9 2.1 191 68 8.5 9.1 12.2 247.0 113.2 79.7 29 215 7.52 8.11 6.3 3 4
2 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 31 QB 16 16 12-4-0 341 520 65.6 4381 38 7.3 5 1.0 221 80 8.4 9.5 12.8 273.8 112.2 78.3 28 174 7.68 8.65 5.1 1 1
3 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 32 QB 16 16 11-5-0 408 608 67.1 4952 32 5.3 9 1.5 244 94 8.1 8.5 12.1 309.5 103.3 68.7 33 172 7.46 7.82 5.1 2 3
4 Peyton Manning* DEN 38 QB 16 16 12-4-0 395 597 66.2 4727 39 6.5 15 2.5 227 86 7.9 8.1 12.0 295.4 101.5 72.0 17 118 7.51 7.68 2.8 1 1
5 Tom Brady * NWE 37 QB 16 16 12-4-0 373 582 64.1 4109 33 5.7 9 1.5 221 69 7.1 7.5 11.0 256.8 97.4 76.2 21 134 6.59 7.01 3.5 2 2
6 Drew Brees* NOR 35 QB 16 16 7-9-0 456 659 69.2 4952 33 5.0 17 2.6 259 69 7.5 7.4 10.9 309.5 97.0 74.8 29 186 6.93 6.77 4.2


Then is if click on QBR and sort the list looks like this:

1 Tony Romo * DAL 34 QB 15 15 12-3-0 304 435 69.9 3705 34 7.8 9 2.1 191 68 8.5 9.1 12.2 247.0 113.2 79.7 29 215 7.52 8.11 6.3 3 4
2 Aaron Rodgers *+ GNB 31 QB 16 16 12-4-0 341 520 65.6 4381 38 7.3 5 1.0 221 80 8.4 9.5 12.8 273.8 112.2 78.3 28 174 7.68 8.65 5.1 1 1
3 Tom Brady * NWE 37 QB 16 16 12-4-0 373 582 64.1 4109 33 5.7 9 1.5 221 69 7.1 7.5 11.0 256.8 97.4 76.2 21 134 6.59 7.01 3.5 2 2
4 Drew Brees* NOR 35 QB 16 16 7-9-0 456 659 69.2 4952 33 5.0 17 2.6 259 69 7.5 7.4 10.9 309.5 97.0 74.8 29 186 6.93 6.77 4.2 2 2
5 Peyton Manning* DEN 38 QB 16 16 12-4-0 395 597 66.2 4727 39 6.5 15 2.5 227 86 7.9 8.1 12.0 295.4 101.5 72.0 17 118 7.51 7.68 2.8 1

So while he did not lead the league in yards.. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that "yards don't matter." He led the league in passing efficiency. So he was the best in the game that year.

And I'm perplexed as to how people keep pointing out that the Joneses have failed to build around two very good QBs... but are somehow going to become that much smarter when they draft the latest shiny new toy QB. Our best chance to get to the dance is to give them LESS problems to solve not more.

Passer ratings don’t determine leagues leading passer.

We don’t believe they will build any better team around a Trevor.

But we would hope that a Mahomes might could take this franchise further. Much like I’d like to have seen if a Rodgers type could have taken Romos team further.

The bigger point is we think this dysfunctional franchise needs one of if not the best QB’s. A top 10 isn’t enough. That’s not on the QB but the dysfunctional franchise.

 

[Diehardblues]

Nobody is carrying a 36 points per game defense anywhere.. There is no plausible scenario where ANY QB overcomes a defense that bad. You know how we know? Because it's never been done.. Not even once in the 100 year history of the league has a defense that give up over 30 points per game won a championship. And they never will no matter who you put at QB..

But we have to factor in an offense with the highest turnover differential.

Which was giving up about 16 points a game. In the one game we didn’t turn it over we only gave up 20 points defensively but we only mustered 17 offensively.

In all 8 of our losses last year we averaged only 17 points a game.

Can anyone answer why our #1 offense was leading the league in turnovers this year ? Placing this team in huge holes with a defense we knew had to be carried by their offense .

 

[Diehardblues]

The answer to me is..

We do not have the coaching structure to develop a QB even if we get a Lawrence.

Dak will be starting his 6th season next season if he stays. Most good teams with a good quality QB should win early in the QBs career.

Mahomes..Wilson..Brady..Manning's (both)..won Championships young.

Dak is not young anymore.

I see us watching the Jones still trying to get Dak a ring on into 2025..

Just like they did with Romo.

And with the same results.

Probably so. And why some of us would rather roll the dice with a bigger gun, at least potentially.

 

[RonnieT24]

The answer to me is..

We do not have the coaching structure to develop a QB even if we get a Lawrence.

Dak will be starting his 6th season next season if he stays. Most good teams with a good quality QB should win early in the QBs career.

Mahomes..Wilson..Brady..Manning's (both)..won Championships young.

Dak is not young anymore.

I see us watching the Jones still trying to get Dak a ring on into 2025..

Just like they did with Romo.

And with the same results.

LMAO.. These arguments get dumber every day.. Now Dak is too OLD to win a championship despite the fact that we are only two years removed from a 41 year old winning one?

But let's test this premise of yours by looking at the last 20 Super Winning QBs and their ages..

2000 - Dilfer 28
2001 - Brady 24
2002 - Johnson 34
2003 - Brady 26
2004 - Brady 27
2005 - Ruthlessraper 23
2006 - P Manning 30
2007 - E Manning 26
2008 - Ruthless 26
2009 - Brees 30
2010 - Rodgers 27
2011 - E Manning 30
2012 - Flacco 27
2013 - Wilson 25
2014 - Brady 37
2015 - P Manning 39
2016 - Brady 39
2017 - Foles 28
2018 - Brady 41
2019 - Mahomes 24

So by my count that's 13 of the last 20 Super Bowl winners at least as old as Dak.. 10 of them were older. Even more telling is that 4 of the last 6 Super Bowls have been won by guys over 35. Yet somehow these people are able to talk themselves into this whole "you gotta have a QB on a rookie contract to win.." The hell you do.. You gotta have a good team around a good QB or at least one who doesn't turn it over a ton and can make one or two great throws a game when you need him.. How old he is or even his contract status doesn't mean jack.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Dak is not young anymore.

I see us watching the Jones still trying to get Dak a ring on into 2025..

Just like they did with Romo.

And with the same results.

Disagree. 27 is young.

 

[RonnieT24]

But we have to factor in an offense with the highest turnover differential.

Which was giving up about 16 points a game. In the one game we didn’t turn it over we only gave up 20 points defensively but we only mustered 17 offensively.

In all 8 of our losses last year we averaged only 17 points a game.

Can anyone answer why our #1 offense was leading the league in turnovers this year ? Placing this team in huge holes with a defense we knew had to be carried by their offense .

Well one factor was horrible pass protection because we have gone long stretches with two undrafted free agents at tackle, a rookie at center and a kid with no game experience at guard one guard and a guy coming off knee surgery at the other.. That leads to blindside jailbreak hits on your QB which leads to strip sacks and a lot of throws made under duress. And two of the interceptions were essentially game ending Hail Mary's. Leaning on what happens last year makes no sense. The offense (and Dak) were better this year than it was last year . They were scoring more and putting up more yards.. But the defense was worse. Ipso Columbo the very unsatisfying results. And the reason the Cowboys had the highest turnover differential was as much on the defense as the offense. Other teams' defenses help the offense out by getting a turnover more than once every 3 games. There are lots of teams that have more turnovers than the Cowboys.. Ask the Eagles .. or the Vikings.. or the Broncos.. Those teams have turned it over far more than the Cowboys.. but their defense participates in the turnover battle as well.. so they have a better differential. Sometimes if you're too close you can't see the whole picture.

 

[jnday]

\

No matter how many time you guys repeat this lie it will never be true. Dak and the offense averaged 15.4 points per game in the first half. Unless they count quarters differently in your universe the first half is part of the first 2-3 quarters. The only reason it didn't matter was because the defense was giving up 20+ points per game in the first half. In fact in the last game he played the offense had put up 24? points in the first half? What was it 15 at Seattle.. 13 at L.A.? 10 against ATL and 14 against Cleveland. With a normal defense that's plenty of production in the first halves of these games. So yes the scores would be closer if the offense didn't commit turnovers.. but how about the defense maybe get a f---kin stop every once in a while.. Show me in the rule book where it says that if the offense commits a turnover the defense is allowed to just bend over and let the opposing offense march down the field and score a TD. And given that they weren't stopping teams from going 75-80 yards with any regularity the only thing the turnovers did was help the defense's yardage ranking.

How about calming down and watch your language? Maybe you need to take a break, because I am not even trying to wind you up. I have a lot more ammo that I could post, but you simply are not capable of handling it at this time. Chill dude.

 

[Runwildboys]

They are not going to draft a premium defender unless they want to reach. This draft does not have top end defensive talent. You must have skipped the Draft Zone posts and the player rankings that the media has put out. I guess there is nothing like drafting the 20th ranked player with a top five pick just because they want a defender. Very few rookie defenders have an impact anyway , so the only other option is free agency. If they sign Dak, they will not have the cap space to upgrade through free agency. It is simple, sign Dak and the ceiling will be 8-8 seasons or let him walk and try to rebuild with younger players and cheaper contracts. With as many holes at positions of need, Dak’s contract would run out before the team could be rebuilt around him.

So they trade back for more picks, if nobody steps up and separates himself from the rest by draft time. But taking a QB, just on the off chance that he'll be better than the guy who was leading the top offense in the league is idiotic.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Keep Dak at all costs he is a one-man show who carries this team to....

2017.....9-7
2018.....10-6
2019......8-8
2020......1-4
----------------------
Total 28W 25L
Special note out of the 28 wins totals 10 are against the Giants and Skins.
1 Playoff win to his name.

PAY THE MAN and watch him get rich while our Cowboys get poor for years to follow!!!
Look at this STUD QB OMG can you believe he is ours????



P.S.Give the house for Lawrence as with Dak poo we are going nowhere!!!

 

[gjkoeppen]

But there has been teams that made it to championship games and Super Bowls .

This is about a great QB taking us further not necessarily winning it all.

Who doesn’t believe a Mahomes for example might could take this team further. Or a Rodgers might have taken one of Romo’s teams further ??

Both Mahomes and Rodgers won Super Bowls with defenses that weren't ranked in the bottom half or last in the league. The age old thing of comparing what QB's on different teams would do on another team is pointless because the QB would be playing with a entirely different group of players. It's happened so many times that a player was really good on one team and then is traded or signs as a free agent and never preforms as well on the next team because they find out that the other players on the first team help the player look so good.

As far as Lawrence I keep remembering back in 1998 all of the draft gurus and the entire sporting world were talking about 2 QB's in the draft and how both were going to be game changers for whichever teams draft them and will win Super Bowls. Most people thought one was going to be the 1st pick but it was the other one who was. Now that QB pick 1st went on to be a 5 time NFL MVP, 7 times All Pro, and had a 17 year career, won 2 Super Bowls and will be in the HOF. The QB taken with the 2nd pick was the runner up for the Heisman Trophy. Of the two QB's he had the size, a much bigger arm and the ability to escape out of the pocket and played in a system in college that more resembled an NFL style offense but lasted all of 5 years in the NFL and is considered one of the all time biggest busts. The 1st pick QB is Peyton Manning and the 2nd pick QB is Ryan Leaf. Most gurus and sports people thought the colts would take Leaf but instead took Manning. Both the draft gurus and sporting world were really wrong on Leaf meaning that not every QB they say will be the next all world just might not be. Again I'm not saying Lawrence will be a bust but if Leaf was thought of as high or even more highly than what Lawrence is now and turned out to be a bust there is no guarantee Lawrence won't too.
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[gjkoeppen]

We aren’t necessarily saying they would build a team around Trevor. Just hoping his ability could take us further.

We think it would help if we had one of or the best QB’s instead of just a top 10 QB.

Just think about it. How many teams would love to have a top 10 or as some in the sporting world say a top 5-6 QB instead of the QB they have? Lawrence is one of the best QB in COLLEGE but hasn't done anything in the NFL yet so to say that he guarantees the Cowboys future Super Bowls is right now just wishful thinking backed by nothing.
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[Fastpitch Dad]

First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

Well written post. I think it's a fair question and that you've pretty much covered all the bases. Having said that, I do not think we will have a chance at Lawrence because I do think we will be picking in the 7-15 area. I've said for awhile that this is a 5-6 win team. Just enough to put us out of reach of the truly elite in the draft.

Even if we were lucky enough to get to 3. I do not see the Jets or Jags trading away his rights. As you stated, he might be a generational talent. And if he goes the way of Eli or Elway, I don't want any part of him. I couldn't stand either of those two because they pulled that crap.

Good post and we shall see how it plays out.
But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Only if a Ravens 2000 type defense wins it for him beyond that he will end up on some team bench in the near future!

Ya going into this season Prescott was rated as the #1 free agent and they on an regular basis rate the #1 player on a player that will spend most of his career sitting on the bench. I guess if you were the one who ranked them for the league he wouldn't have been #1 but instead it's done by people who are paid for what they think.

He wouldn't need the 2000 raven defense, just what the huge majority of Super Bowl winning teams had which was a defense ranked at least 12th in the league that Prescott has the 31st or 32nd ranked defense.
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[Seven]

Dak Hate is incurable

That's cause you can't fix stupid.........

 

[gjkoeppen]

Keep Dak at all costs he is a one-man show who carries this team to....

2017.....9-7
2018.....10-6
2019......8-8
2020......1-4
----------------------
Total 28W 25L
Special note out of the 28 wins totals 10 are against the Giants and Skins.
1 Playoff win to his name.

PAY THE MAN and watch him get rich while our Cowboys get poor for years to follow!!!
Look at this STUD QB OMG can you believe he is ours????



P.S.Give the house for Lawrence as with Dak poo we are going nowhere!!!

Tell me the extremely highly regarded QB taken with the 2nd pick in the 1998 draft, who was the runner up for the Heisman Trophy and most thought was going to be the 1st pick in the draft, just how many wins/losses and playoff wins did he have in his entire career?
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[Diehardblues]

Just think about it. How many teams would love to have a top 10 or as some in the sporting world say a top 5-6 QB instead of the QB they have? Lawrence is one of the best QB in COLLEGE but hasn't done anything in the NFL yet so to say that he guarantees the Cowboys future Super Bowls is right now just wishful thinking backed by nothing.
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I understand but like I have said with our dysfunctional organization we must think beyond the norm.

I’ve asked several times with no response on this thread and I’ll ask again in case you missed it. Which this question drives our thought process.

Do you think a Mahomes type talent takes this dysfunctional franchise further ? Or is Dak the only one who can?

 

[CowboyoWales]

Here's the problem with those that want to use the cap difficulties as the reason to not sign Prescott. So say Prescott is no longer with the Cowboys and they draft a big name college QB . Now in the next 4 years the Cowboys don't get to or win any Super Bowls and during those 4 years the cost of QB's has risen even higher. Then the same people who now are saying cap difficulties for signing Prescott will be saying the same thing about the next QB, so the cycle continues of drafting QB's every 4 years until the Cowboys luck out and win a Super Bowl. Oh in the mean time Prescott had gone off to another team and won a couple of Super Bowls. Now all of this is just saying what could happen not that it will happen just like those that think the Cowboys if they sign Prescott will automatically not find a way to work around his salary.
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My point is directed at people, and I wont mention any names @CowboysFaninHouston, who cannot see that a 3 year Dak deal starting in 2021, will seriously effect our CAP, as it's not in a great position (actually awful in 2021/22) and we wont have the flexibility to improve the team, other than through the draft , which will need more than 1 year to bear fruit.

I am responding to those those who just dismiss the CAP situation as being unimportant. Those that give historical justification whilst not appreciating that ALL our big contracts have been given on a long term basis, which for CAP purposes are bonus and backdated heavy (great examples - Lawrence, Cooper , T Smith and Martin).

Its the idea that some have that we signed: Poe, Griffin, Worley, Clinton-Dix and McCrory due to poor evauation of talent .... when in reality it was because that's all we could afford.

Dak signing for 5 years will at least give us a chance to defer CAP allocations allowing us to sign better than the dumpster bargains we got in 2020 FA.